What proof does the I.R.S. require/accept as proof of residency?

[mcwjjm]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio Never married, both mother and father are illegible to claim our two chirdren as dependants for 2008. Based on the tie - breaker rule I would win because I have a higher gross income. The problem is when the two returns are flaged and we're requested to prove these facts. I just learned that the mother provided false residences to the school, which would go against my claim they lived with me for 2008. Since they are on my family health care all medical records would use my address for billing purposes but that doesn't answer where they lived, just where the person responsible for paying the bill lived.

What I do have is a subpeona letter from the municipal court addressed to her using my address. Her bank statement, her payroll receipt, vehicle regestration. I also have a letter from the school board addressed to my address informing her that documents for our children were returned to the school for the address she gave and requested her to provide proper documentation [she never did].

My question is are any of thsee documents enough proof to show she and our children lived with me? And also how can one show proof of an actual move out date or that they lived here through 2008? I undersatnd that the individual auditor judges these on a case by case basis, which isn't exactly comforting. I'd rather take opinion out of it. Better to ask now then have to scramble in a few months when the returns will be flagged. Thanks in advance.

 

[tranquility]

Are any of them "enough"? No one knows. Prove up the elements. That's what the law is all about. (What would a jury of your peers say?)

 

[mcwjjm]

Let me ask in another way. Has anyone been required to show proof of residency in a similair situation where documents were falsified and what other forms were accpeted by the IRS auditor? I should add that I also have private emails from 2008-2009 with her acknowledging intentions to move the kid's into a apartment. I'm sure I could get a statement from the landlord verifying they resided here in 2008 as he does routine manintainence and has been inside the home on various occasions. There also was a court investigator who did a home inspection for a custody case with my oldest son [not related to this case] last Fall that I may be able to get a statement from.

What does it matter what I or my peers think, the I.R.S. audditor is not a peer. I'm only concerned with what they will accept has documentation. Even though I know for a fact they lived here in 2008 all that matters is what I can prove and what they will accept as proof.

 

[tranquility]

Let me put it another way, residency is based on a facts and circumstances test. That is, the IRS takes all the facts provided and comes to a conclusion as to where your residence is. If you disagree, you may ultimately go to court where a jury will decide.

The IRS loves government documents obtained under penalty of perjury. Voter registration, driver's licenses, school enrollments things like that. They accept utility bills, auto registrations, library cards and other things. In neither case does an auditor have to accept that proof as determinative. He comes to a conclusion based on all the facts. If a person rents a house in place one, but has a driver's license, is registered to vote and the governer of the state gave a special award for being the best resident in place two to the man, the IRS can still choose place one as the residence. If the person disagrees, it goes to court where a jury decides.

Giving false documents to the IRS is a federal crime. What that crime(s) is depends on many factors like if it was mailed to them or what the level of knowledge or amount of planning with others were involved.

 

[mcwjjm]

Thanks. UPDATE:

I just found the following - an electronic filing receipt for her 2007 federal income tax return with my address. I can assume that she then also used my address for her 2008 return. But even if she didn't it would show support to my claim she lived with me. If the IRS has her on file at my address wouldn't that disqualify the [other] address she could provide to them [the one's she gave the school] to support her case that she and the children didn't reside with me for 2008? I also have a 2008 voter registration document.

I understand the decision isn't exactly a precise formula but it seems to me the evidence I could provide would trump her's.

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks. UPDATE:

I just found the following - an electronic filing receipt for her 2007 federal income tax return with my address. I can assume that she then also used my address for her 2008 return. But even if she didn't it would show support to my claim she lived with me. If the IRS has her on file at my address wouldn't that disqualify the [other] address she could provide to them [the one's she gave the school] to support her case that she and the children didn't reside with me for 2008? I also have a 2008 voter registration document.

I understand the decision isn't exactly a precise formula but it seems to me the evidence I could provide would trump her's.

Ok...I think that you are mixing returns and that is a critical issue. The return that she filed in January or February of 2008, was her 2007 return. The return that she filed in January or February of 2007, was her 2006 return.

However...if her W2 for 2007 showed your address, and her tax return for 2007 showed your address (filed in January or February of 2008) AND her W2 for 2008 showed your address as well...(the W2 that she would be receiving now) that could be a huge amount of proof.

However, you still have the same problem, which was pointed out to you on another thread, that mom has been receiving welfare benefits, using another address...and you knew that she was receiving those benefits, and you benefitted from those benefits...which puts you at risk.

You have also been told that the IRS cross references welfare benefits.

I told you on another thread that if you were my client (since you are already going to court to deal with these issues for the future) that I would advise you not to claim the children for 2008 (because of the welfare issue) and to deal with the issue of the children's exemptions in court.

 

[mcwjjm]

However...if her W2 for 2007 showed your address, and her tax return for 2007 showed your address (filed in January or February of 2008) AND her W2 for 2008 showed your address as well...(the W2 that she would be receiving now) that could be a huge amount of proof.

However, you still have the same problem, which was pointed out to you on another thread, that mom has been receiving welfare benefits, using another address...and you knew that she was receiving those benefits, and you benefitted from those benefits...which puts you at risk.

You have also been told that the IRS cross references welfare benefits.

I told you on another thread that if you were my client (since you are already going to court to deal with these issues for the future) that I would advise you not to claim the children for 2008 (because of the welfare issue) and to deal with the issue of the children's exemptions in court.

Yes, what I found was her 2007 W2 from her employer. I misspoke in my earlier post. I'm not sure what address she may have used on her tax returns. For the last 4 years I've claimed our children on my tax return, even for the year we weren't living together, but I was providing C/S. Since she didn't work enough she asked me to claim them and we split the refund. If this makes a difference, I wasn't actually "benefiting" from her EBT. I agreed to reimburse her for the benefits she received. I did speak with an attorney on this matter and he felt it was much more an issue for her than me and didn't advise me not to claim them, contesting her return. I'll take your recomendation under advisement.

 

[LdiJ]

Yes, what I found was her 2007 W2 from her employer. I misspoke in my earlier post. I'm not sure what address she may have used on her tax returns. For the last 4 years I've claimed our children on my tax return, even for the year we weren't living together, but I was providing C/S. Since she didn't work enough she asked me to claim them and we split the refund. If this makes a difference, I wasn't actually "benefiting" from her EBT. I agreed to reimburse her for the benefits she received. I did speak with an attorney on this matter and he felt it was much more an issue for her than me and didn't advise me not to claim them, contesting her return. I'll take your recomendation under advisement.

No offense to attorneys, but unless they are tax attorneys you should NEVER listen to an attorney's advice regarding taxes, because 9 times out of 10 they have no idea what they are talking about. You have no idea how many times I have had to fight with my client's attorneys to keep them out of tax troubles...or how many attorneys have written things into court orders that are blatantly illegal for tax purposes.

By all means consult a local tax professional if you feel that the advice that you have been receiving on these forums is questionable....but please do not rely on a family law attorney for tax advice, or even for advice regarding welfare issues.

 

[davew128]

No offense to attorneys, but unless they are tax attorneys you should NEVER listen to an attorney's advice regarding taxes, because 9 times out of 10 they have no idea what they are talking about. You have no idea how many times I have had to fight with my client's attorneys to keep them out of tax troubles...or how many attorneys have written things into court orders that are blatantly illegal for tax purposes.

+10

Did I ever mention the time I had a fight with the admin staff of of a law firm client? They wanted to 1099 my firm and wanted our EIN. Notwithstanding the fact that the number was on their 1065 at the bottom of page 1, I told them in no uncertain terms that I was absolutely not giving them our EIN because the instructions to the 1099 (based on underlying law) were quite clear in that you don't issue 1099-MISC to corporations. When she asked how she could have know we were a corp, I mentioned the "P.C." after the firm name.

 

[LdiJ]

+10

Did I ever mention the time I had a fight with the admin staff of of a law firm client? They wanted to 1099 my firm and wanted our EIN. Notwithstanding the fact that the number was on their 1065 at the bottom of page 1, I told them in no uncertain terms that I was absolutely not giving them our EIN because the instructions to the 1099 (based on underlying law) were quite clear in that you don't issue 1099-MISC to corporations. When she asked how she could have know we were a corp, I mentioned the "P.C." after the firm name.

I would be a rich woman if I had a dollar for every time I have had to explain THAT one to the admin staff of a company...not just law firms. That, and companies who try to insist on issuing 1099s to companies they buy PRODUCTS from.

My pet peeve are those attorneys who insist on writing in the orders that non-custodial parents are entitled to the daycare exemption, earned income credit and/or head of household status...and how many of them have argued with me that the judge CAN order anything that the judge wants, and the IRS has to honor it.

 

[tranquility]

While technically correct, why do you care? I mean really, a corporations going to give up the EIN and is going to report the income anyway, so who cares?

A contest to see who can piss the farthest comes to mind. If I don't ever want to see the *client* again, I ignore the request. If I want to keep this person who wants to keep paying me money, I give in to his request. Doesn't really hurt, don't really care. I am unsure as to this issue.

(Divorce decrees are different. Alimony is very specific and legally defined and is important.)

 

[davew128]

While technically correct, why do you care? I mean really, a corporations going to give up the EIN and is going to report the income anyway, so who cares?

Oh I don't know, maybe because I expect a law firm to understand the law?

 

[LdiJ]

While technically correct, why do you care? I mean really, a corporations going to give up the EIN and is going to report the income anyway, so who cares?

A contest to see who can piss the farthest comes to mind. If I don't ever want to see the *client* again, I ignore the request. If I want to keep this person who wants to keep paying me money, I give in to his request. Doesn't really hurt, don't really care. I am unsure as to this issue.

(Divorce decrees are different. Alimony is very specific and legally defined and is important.)

An EIN is like a social security number, if someone doesn't need to have it, they shouldn't have it. It can be abused, and I have seen them abused. Of course any tax client of mine would have ours anyway, but its my clients giving up theirs when they shouldn't, that concerns me.

And as far as divorce decrees are concerned, I hope you were including my pet peeves in your statement, because those issues have caused SERIOUS problems to individuals.

 

[tranquility]

Oh I don't know, maybe because I expect a law firm to understand the law?

That's why I'd explain it and give it to them and move on or just ignore the letter. I've got better things to do than convince others what the law is.

An EIN is like a social security number, if someone doesn't need to have it, they shouldn't have it. It can be abused, and I have seen them abused. Of course any tax client of mine would have ours anyway, but its my clients giving up theirs when they shouldn't, that concerns me.

We're not talking about a client, but a corporation. (While admitting a corporation can be a client.) Sure it can be abused. But, it is already so out there, who cares? Over the years ours has been given out to tens of thousands of people. Tens of thousands, many of who may not like us any more. I'm going to spend a lot of time arguing with a lawyer about what the law is here? "Here's the number, kick us the 1099." Problem solved, I go do work for which I get paid.

And, yes, I've seen a lot of lawyers screw up divorce decrees causing tax issues which were not anticipated and why I wrote what I did. Not a lot of corps get divorced, but since it was in the post regarding the 1099, I added that to show I didn't fully disagree with what you wrote.

 

[LdiJ]

That's why I'd explain it and give it to them and move on or just ignore the letter. I've got better things to do than convince others what the law is.

We're not talking about a client, but a corporation. (While admitting a corporation can be a client.) Sure it can be abused. But, it is already so out there, who cares? Over the years ours has been given out to tens of thousands of people. Tens of thousands, many of who may not like us any more. I'm going to spend a lot of time arguing with a lawyer about what the law is here? "Here's the number, kick us the 1099." Problem solved, I go do work for which I get paid.

My perspective is probably different than yours, since my corporate clients are mom and pop shops.