Changing Custody - Older Children

[hcralston]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL/WA/KS

My husband has 2 twin daughters who are 16 next month. Both have lived with their mother since the divorce at one year old. Since my husband and I have been married, he has not seen his girls but once. The order states that he is to have them alternating holidays/spring breaks and during summers. The original order was in Kansas and ordered to be upheld in Illinois. Nothing has been done. The judge in IL said she wasn't going to enforce visitation if the girls don't want it. No one knows what they want since no one can talk to them. Both sides of the family have been alienated from them.

Mom refuses to let them talk to their dad, threatens to cancel their activities etc in order to get compliance. She told my husband to find his own way to communicate with them and to not call them on their cell phones that SHE pays for. (dad sent them a phone instead and mom ordered them to mail it back and called the girls traitors for wanting to talk to him).We never know where they live or where they go to school because we can't get any information out of the mother. The courts seem even less inclined to help.

We recently received some communication from one of the daughters who calls her dad and sends him texts but has to call from her friends phones because mom will get mad. She has talked to her uncle about wanting to get out of their as mom has gone crazy, talks about her fantasies of killing her boyfriend who she is blackmailing, leaves the girls for nights/weeks at a time. She left one of the girls alone for 10 days with no adult and no phone.

My husband is currently seeking legal help but any advice on how to obtain custody would be welcomed. Is there any sort of emergency order we can get to obtain custody until we can have a full court proceeding?

My husband has paid his child support and is in no way a dead beat dad who does not care by the way.

Oh, mom was in contempt of court for not sending the girls on the times ordered but nothing is being done. Mom is also a good liar and manipulator, tried to get my husband fired, said I kicked the kids out (not true) tells them he doesn't pay child support - amongst other outright lies. Her own family has contacted us about her and how to get the girls out of this situation as they too have been cut out of their lives when disagreements arise with mom.

Ultimately, it's their safety and well being that are our first concerns.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL/WA/KS

My husband has 2 twin daughters who are 16 next month. Both have lived with their mother since the divorce at one year old. Since my husband and I have been married, he has not seen his girls but once. The order states that he is to have them alternating holidays/spring breaks and during summers. The original order was in Kansas and ordered to be upheld in Illinois. Nothing has been done. The judge in IL said she wasn't going to enforce visitation if the girls don't want it. No one knows what they want since no one can talk to them. Both sides of the family have been alienated from them.

Mom refuses to let them talk to their dad, threatens to cancel their activities etc in order to get compliance. She told my husband to find his own way to communicate with them and to not call them on their cell phones that SHE pays for. (dad sent them a phone instead and mom ordered them to mail it back and called the girls traitors for wanting to talk to him).We never know where they live or where they go to school because we can't get any information out of the mother. The courts seem even less inclined to help.

We recently received some communication from one of the daughters who calls her dad and sends him texts but has to call from her friends phones because mom will get mad. She has talked to her uncle about wanting to get out of their as mom has gone crazy, talks about her fantasies of killing her boyfriend who she is blackmailing, leaves the girls for nights/weeks at a time. She left one of the girls alone for 10 days with no adult and no phone.

My husband is currently seeking legal help but any advice on how to obtain custody would be welcomed. Is there any sort of emergency order we can get to obtain custody until we can have a full court proceeding?

My husband has paid his child support and is in no way a dead beat dad who does not care by the way.

Oh, mom was in contempt of court for not sending the girls on the times ordered but nothing is being done. Mom is also a good liar and manipulator, tried to get my husband fired, said I kicked the kids out (not true) tells them he doesn't pay child support - amongst other outright lies. Her own family has contacted us about her and how to get the girls out of this situation as they too have been cut out of their lives when disagreements arise with mom.

Ultimately, it's their safety and well being that are our first concerns.

I am really not sure what to tell you (other than there is no "we" in this situation). Its a tricky situation.

In order to change custody, you have to have a signficant change in circumstance. Teenage girls can be very manipulative, and with so little communication from the girls their father cannot be certain as to what is really going on in the home, nor does he have the kind of evidence he needs to prove a change of circumstance, let alone an emergency requiring emergency orders.

With 16 year olds he also cannot claim safety concerns on the same level that could be claimed with younger children.

Apparently IL currently has jurisdiction and apparently the judge in IL has stated that he won't force visitation if the girls do not want it...therefore the girls wishes regarding custody are going to weigh in as well.

While he may be hearing some complaints against mom, a question is going to be whether the girls would be willing to leave their friends and high school to move to WA.

If dad decides to proceed, he is going to need an attorney in IL, and he is going to have to ask that a GAL be appointed for the girls, to help determine not only what their real wishes are, but also what is truely in their best interest.

It won't be a short process, and there is little chance that he would get temporary custody, as the courts are unlikely to want the girls to change schools before a final decision is made.

 

[wileybunch]

We recently received some communication from one of the daughters who calls her dad and sends him texts but has to call from her friends phones because mom will get mad. She has talked to her uncle about wanting to get out of their as mom has gone crazy, talks about her fantasies of killing her boyfriend who she is blackmailing, leaves the girls for nights/weeks at a time. She left one of the girls alone for 10 days with no adult and no phone.

Are the girls in counseling that you're aware of? Do you know what uncle has advised the girls or what action he has taken? Has he encouraged them to talk to the school counselors? Teenagers can be manipulative so I do hesitate on this, but if Mom's doing these things, an adult should know and be keeping a watch over the situation. A school counselor is a good person for the girls to talk to because she's close to them, able to be in contact throughout the week, is a safe harbor for them, and can report to CPS if she thinks the situation warrants.

 

[hcralston]

I know that one of the girls is seeing a "therapist" but I don't know what that means. The therapist recommended that she seek emancipation from her mother. I think that's a pretty bad idea personally.

They have been pulled out of school and are attending some sort of online program as far as I know. My husband has joint custody but of course has not been apart of any of these decisions.

I do know that ONE of the girls wants to leave, the other probably doesn't want to uproot.

I think that if given a chance to speak to a judge we would hear the truth at least from one of the girls but it's a lengthy process from what we're told. By then they will be 18, on their own and have suffered even more.

My husband also has a 19 year old son who gives us some information and he too is in a sense, bribed/coerced by his mother to not talk to his father, although he ignores it most of the time. The son had lived with his father until he was 16, lived with his mother for a year and moved out and went to college.

Thank you so much for your feedback, I really appreciate it. I'm just very saddened that it's got to be this way, kids should have relationships with both their parents and parents really need to put aside their differences and think of kids.

Oh, by the way, IL had no issue letting the son move to Illinois - they barely blinked an eye. My husband agreed to let him go as he was 16 and should be able to spend time with his mom/sisters - and the courts had no issue. I'm curious to see what happens in this case.

 

[penelope10]

I am really not sure what to tell you (other than there is no "we" in this situation). Its a tricky situation.

In order to change custody, you have to have a signficant change in circumstance. Teenage girls can be very manipulative, and with so little communication from the girls their father cannot be certain as to what is really going on in the home, nor does he have the kind of evidence he needs to prove a change of circumstance, let alone an emergency requiring emergency orders.

With 16 year olds he also cannot claim safety concerns on the same level that could be claimed with younger children.

Apparently IL currently has jurisdiction and apparently the judge in IL has stated that he won't force visitation if the girls do not want it...therefore the girls wishes regarding custody are going to weigh in as well.

While he may be hearing some complaints against mom, a question is going to be whether the girls would be willing to leave their friends and high school to move to WA.

If dad decides to proceed, he is going to need an attorney in IL, and he is going to have to ask that a GAL be appointed for the girls, to help determine not only what their real wishes are, but also what is truely in their best interest.

It won't be a short process, and there is little chance that he would get temporary custody, as the courts are unlikely to want the girls to change schools before a final decision is made.

I agree with you on this LD. I also have a further question in regards to the girls---at what age exactly did Dad ask the courts to enforce visitation? (Since OP stated that Dad has only seen the kiddos once since Dad remarried).

 

[majomom1]

I agree with you on this LD. I also have a further question in regards to the girls---at what age exactly did Dad ask the courts to enforce visitation? (Since OP stated that Dad has only seen the kiddos once since Dad remarried).

I had this same question. At first I took it to mean that Dad hadn't seen the girls but once in 16 years. OP doesn't say how long she has been married to Dad.

Depending on how much time has elapsed... I don't see the courts even considering any change in custody. Dad being absent won't look good to the court or give them any reason to believe that Dad is now considering the best interest of the kids.

Another question: Now there is a 19 year old son... in the same area as the girls... yet OP claims they have no information, or any way to get info?

Me thinks that we are not getting the whole story here.

 

[hcralston]

The last time my husband saw the girls was in March of 2006. It was a forced visitation by the courts - and after that the mother denied every single order to send the kids. The girls had just turned 13. The courts in IL have not once spoken to the girls about their wishes - so they have no idea what they want. Nor have they enforced any consequences for the mother. I guess we could file a criminal suit?? I think I read that somewhere - but it doesn't really seem like it will change much.

The son lives in Arizona - going to college- and doesn't talk about what is going on as he doesn't want to be involved, and mom will take away things she's giving him like a car, cell phone - if he gives information to dad. He has recently been somewhat of a middle man because at least one of the girls wants to talk to /see her dad and has to do it in secret because mom threatens her -calls her a traitor and makes life miserable. This is what we've been able to get out of the son and the uncle (who the daughter calls when she can).

I know it's hard to understand it all - it's hard to explain it all. I assure you there is nothing fishy going on on this end - the father has really been trying to see his daughters and is mystified as to why it's ok for mom to have not sent the son back 3 years ago after visiting her (so he agreed to let him stay)- but if the father was to even attempt the same (which isn't legal anyways) we can pretty much guarantee the courts would be all over him.

He spent the entire summer with them in 2005, has bought numerous plane tickets for them to visit but they were not allowed to leave. I don't know that I'd call this an absentee dad as he has no control over it. He went as far as to call the police to ask if they could escort them onto a plane but I guess that's not a possibility without some court order or something or other.

And back to the son and "getting information", the father does not feel he should be forcing the son into the middle of his problem with his ex, but that it's a fine line as far as that goes.

The mother is suspected of having a serious mental illness as well - going back to when they were married and recent events which would take me hours to go into. She has been committed for suicide attempts years back and her own family is extremely concerned, thus the contacting my husband over the past few weeks.

I hope that answers your questions.

 

[penelope10]

The last time my husband saw the girls was in March of 2006. It was a forced visitation by the courts - and after that the mother denied every single order to send the kids. The girls had just turned 13. The courts in IL have not once spoken to the girls about their wishes - so they have no idea what they want. Nor have they enforced any consequences for the mother. I guess we could file a criminal suit?? I think I read that somewhere - but it doesn't really seem like it will change much.

The son lives in Arizona - going to college- and doesn't talk about what is going on as he doesn't want to be involved, and mom will take away things she's giving him like a car, cell phone - if he gives information to dad. He has recently been somewhat of a middle man because at least one of the girls wants to talk to /see her dad and has to do it in secret because mom threatens her -calls her a traitor and makes life miserable. This is what we've been able to get out of the son and the uncle (who the daughter calls when she can).

I know it's hard to understand it all - it's hard to explain it all. I assure you there is nothing fishy going on on this end - the father has really been trying to see his daughters and is mystified as to why it's ok for mom to have not sent the son back 3 years ago after visiting her (so he agreed to let him stay)- but if the father was to even attempt the same (which isn't legal anyways) we can pretty much guarantee the courts would be all over him.

He spent the entire summer with them in 2005, has bought numerous plane tickets for them to visit but they were not allowed to leave. I don't know that I'd call this an absentee dad as he has no control over it. He went as far as to call the police to ask if they could escort them onto a plane but I guess that's not a possibility without some court order or something or other.

And back to the son and "getting information", the father does not feel he should be forcing the son into the middle of his problem with his ex, but that it's a fine line as far as that goes.

The mother is suspected of having a serious mental illness as well - going back to when they were married and recent events which would take me hours to go into. She has been committed for suicide attempts years back and her own family is extremely concerned, thus the contacting my husband over the past few weeks.

I hope that answers your questions.

Why hasn't Dad been back to court before now and filled another contempt motion? As of next month it will be three years since he's seen the girls.

 

[hcralston]

Why hasn't Dad been back to court before now and filled another contempt motion? As of next month it will be three years since he's seen the girls.

Since the first couple of times he attempted to get the judge to look at the contempt of court he did file and they ignored it, he was under the assumption that they didn't want to see him and wasn't going to make them do something that was going to make them mad - and he was unsure why they were really mad in the first place (other than that they questioned his paying child support because mom said he wasn't but he has NEVER been late, it comes out of his check in the first place).

Until recent events he has sent them letters, left voicemails, texts, bought tickets for all the times they were supposed to be here- with no response other than through their brother for Christmas gifts. Now he knows that at least one of them is frustrated and wants to see her dad.

No judge or lawyer seemed to make an effort to want to enforce visitation but they were of course quick to work on child support. He has a new lawyer who seems to understand how it works and is supportive so I think that that is the next step - revisiting the contempt and pursuing an enforcement of visitation.
I just don't know how it's going to happen before they are 18 -

 

[Ohiogal]

He needed to file and request a GAL be appointed for the children.