holliscary
Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio
Thanks again for all the advice, criticism, encouragement and education I recieved here. I think every post to my thread (links follow) were helpful in one way or another and I took every one of them seriously.
Failure to maintain Reasonable Control And Failure to reinstate
https://forum.freeadvice.com/speeding-other-moving-violations-13/failure-maintain-reasonable-control-failure-reinstate-452128.html
Failure To Maintain Reasonable Control – Ohio
https://forum.freeadvice.com/speeding-other-moving-violations-13/failure-maintain-reasonable-control-ohio-453563.html
I do credit the posters on this site and the research, reading and question asking that I did (tirelessly I may add) for feeling confident and prepared going into my pretrial.
For those that don;t know pre -trial is basically where you go meet with the prosecutor and he either tells you what they have and he'll see you at trial, dismiss your case of offer you some kind of deal.
It took a long time to convince him and prove to him that my license should have been valid at the time and I think he really understood it a long time before he admitted to it - in fact I think he knew the truth before I went in there (my story and the paperwork backing it up was in the police file on his desk).
Eventually in an incredible show of magnamosity he offered to completely dismiss the charge (he of course was sure to let me know if he really wasn't as nice as he is he could succesfully prosecute it) IF I would plead guilty to the Failure to Maintain Reasonable Control Charge.
Honestly I was completely unconcerned with the Failure To Reinstate Charge as that was an easily proved paperwork lag at the faults of the court clerk and the BMV and I had both agencies admitting their fault.
So I thanked him politely for dismissing the first charge and offered to allow him to dismiss the Failure to Maintain Reasonable Control charge (now I'm getting nervous because I feel a little like I'm starting play a little hardball with the big boys). Well he actually looks at the officer and the other people in the room (all giving me the "you guilty *******" look) and almost falls out of his chair. He literally chuckled.
So he says, "seriously, you understand what the failure to reinstate conviction could hold right?" I told him yes, if convicted it could be $1,000 and/or a year in jail. I also told him that I'm not guilty and that I am sure I would win and that I'd rather lose fighting than make any deal that involved that charge so I asked him, if for the sake of my legal disadvantage if we could handle each case seperatly. He insisted that my only leverage is by handling both together. Now, I think at this time I understand that I'm being bullied a little but I don't want to be confrontational with him at all so I accept the sheepish role and offer to talk about a deal.
He reiterates the deal offered, that I plead guilty. I told him that I'm unclear on why if I plead not guilty once should I change that plea to guilty and asked if he wouldn't mind explaining. His answer, "I want to help keep you out of jail". I don't think I'm going to jail because I think we all know at this point that he absolutely cannot win on the license issue.
I told him the main thing is that I can't afford the points on the Reasonable Control charge and he said there was nothing he could do about it but (acting like it was a freebie) said I could go to traffic school and have the same 2 points erased (I know that you can't do that until you are in danger of having your license suspended because of points and I'm not close, I also know that it costs about 300 bucks).
I asked him if I could call my wife and run it by here. He was agog, "why do you have to call her". For advice I told him, she's my partner and I want to know what she thinks. You know what he said next? He threw his arms up and said, "this is a no-brainer". Well, maybe I said but I'd still like to do that. So I did and then they made me wait, and wait and wait.
When they came back to me they asked me about a lower point violation and I said, "I don't want any points. All this time I keep explaining why I'm not guitly.
After a while I decided to explain why I don't think they can convict (basically I wanted to let them know that I do feel at least a little bit of negotiating power here also to let them know I was (and I was) willing to set a trial date).
So they made me wait, and wait and then offered me a no point, moving violation - I pay $150 in fines and $75 in court cost by pleading guilty and the dismiss the Reinstatement charge.
Again, I am not at all concerned with the failure to reinstate charge and start to realize that he won't let it go because he feels like the scare power in the possible punishment is his real power to get a guilty plea out of me.
So, I went from nervous to scared to death to nervous and now I feel a bit emboldened. While I was waiting I was reading and I read a quote, "It is the weak man that encourages compromise, not the strong man".
So, I politely asked that we lessen that fine to something more affordable being that I'm already out $180 for the tow and $30 for a new license, etc...
This guy is very animated and I thought he might try to choke at this point but 30 minutes later he offers to allow me to plead guilty to an Unsafe Vehicle charge (non-moving, no points) $50 fine plus $75 in court costs.
Here comes my last negotiating tactic, "I would be happy to take that deal as long as I can plead "No Contest".
He lowered and shook his head and agreed.
I feel at this point that I won a huge battle but not yet the war although I'm feeling pretty darned satisfied.
I insisted on the no contest plea rather than the guilty plea for a couple of reasons.
By pleading no contest I give up the right to have the state prove their case, while that might sound like bad strategy I knew that it meant I still got to stand in front of the judge, that without having to prove the case the prosecutor and the police officer would not be in the room and that when accepting a no contest plea you have to answer a few questions from the judge, one of which is, "were you coerced in anyway?". I had also been watching her handle other cases all day and thought that I had a plan that may work but at the worse wouldn't backfire too badly.
It was now very late in the day (I had been there since 11AM) but I had been watching the judge all day and I had a plan.
I saw the prosecutor deliver my court packet and he told me to wait in the courtroom.
They called me rather quickly (I was one of about three left) and when she asked me the coercion question I told her, yes I feel like I've been coerced and I'm uncomfortable pleading no contest to this fraudulent charge but that I, in fact, did want to do it.
She asked me why I felt coerced and I detailed the day for her. She asked me to describe the case, I told her that I couldn't because it never happened but that I was well prepared to present my case on the original charge and, if necesssary go to trial.
She asked me to present it and I did.
She said, "On the charge of "Failure To Reinstate" case is dismissed"
"On the charge of Failure To Maintain Reasonable Control, I accept the ammendment to Unsafe Vehicle, I further accept your plea of no contest and I find the defendant, Not Guilty..."
Thanks Again to Everyone!What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
Thanks again for all the advice, criticism, encouragement and education I recieved here. I think every post to my thread (links follow) were helpful in one way or another and I took every one of them seriously.
Failure to maintain Reasonable Control And Failure to reinstate
https://forum.freeadvice.com/speeding-other-moving-violations-13/failure-maintain-reasonable-control-failure-reinstate-452128.html
Failure To Maintain Reasonable Control – Ohio
https://forum.freeadvice.com/speeding-other-moving-violations-13/failure-maintain-reasonable-control-ohio-453563.html
I do credit the posters on this site and the research, reading and question asking that I did (tirelessly I may add) for feeling confident and prepared going into my pretrial.
For those that don;t know pre -trial is basically where you go meet with the prosecutor and he either tells you what they have and he'll see you at trial, dismiss your case of offer you some kind of deal.
It took a long time to convince him and prove to him that my license should have been valid at the time and I think he really understood it a long time before he admitted to it - in fact I think he knew the truth before I went in there (my story and the paperwork backing it up was in the police file on his desk).
Eventually in an incredible show of magnamosity he offered to completely dismiss the charge (he of course was sure to let me know if he really wasn't as nice as he is he could succesfully prosecute it) IF I would plead guilty to the Failure to Maintain Reasonable Control Charge.
Honestly I was completely unconcerned with the Failure To Reinstate Charge as that was an easily proved paperwork lag at the faults of the court clerk and the BMV and I had both agencies admitting their fault.
So I thanked him politely for dismissing the first charge and offered to allow him to dismiss the Failure to Maintain Reasonable Control charge (now I'm getting nervous because I feel a little like I'm starting play a little hardball with the big boys). Well he actually looks at the officer and the other people in the room (all giving me the "you guilty *******" look) and almost falls out of his chair. He literally chuckled.
So he says, "seriously, you understand what the failure to reinstate conviction could hold right?" I told him yes, if convicted it could be $1,000 and/or a year in jail. I also told him that I'm not guilty and that I am sure I would win and that I'd rather lose fighting than make any deal that involved that charge so I asked him, if for the sake of my legal disadvantage if we could handle each case seperatly. He insisted that my only leverage is by handling both together. Now, I think at this time I understand that I'm being bullied a little but I don't want to be confrontational with him at all so I accept the sheepish role and offer to talk about a deal.
He reiterates the deal offered, that I plead guilty. I told him that I'm unclear on why if I plead not guilty once should I change that plea to guilty and asked if he wouldn't mind explaining. His answer, "I want to help keep you out of jail". I don't think I'm going to jail because I think we all know at this point that he absolutely cannot win on the license issue.
I told him the main thing is that I can't afford the points on the Reasonable Control charge and he said there was nothing he could do about it but (acting like it was a freebie) said I could go to traffic school and have the same 2 points erased (I know that you can't do that until you are in danger of having your license suspended because of points and I'm not close, I also know that it costs about 300 bucks).
I asked him if I could call my wife and run it by here. He was agog, "why do you have to call her". For advice I told him, she's my partner and I want to know what she thinks. You know what he said next? He threw his arms up and said, "this is a no-brainer". Well, maybe I said but I'd still like to do that. So I did and then they made me wait, and wait and wait.
When they came back to me they asked me about a lower point violation and I said, "I don't want any points. All this time I keep explaining why I'm not guitly.
After a while I decided to explain why I don't think they can convict (basically I wanted to let them know that I do feel at least a little bit of negotiating power here also to let them know I was (and I was) willing to set a trial date).
So they made me wait, and wait and then offered me a no point, moving violation - I pay $150 in fines and $75 in court cost by pleading guilty and the dismiss the Reinstatement charge.
Again, I am not at all concerned with the failure to reinstate charge and start to realize that he won't let it go because he feels like the scare power in the possible punishment is his real power to get a guilty plea out of me.
So, I went from nervous to scared to death to nervous and now I feel a bit emboldened. While I was waiting I was reading and I read a quote, "It is the weak man that encourages compromise, not the strong man".
So, I politely asked that we lessen that fine to something more affordable being that I'm already out $180 for the tow and $30 for a new license, etc...
This guy is very animated and I thought he might try to choke at this point but 30 minutes later he offers to allow me to plead guilty to an Unsafe Vehicle charge (non-moving, no points) $50 fine plus $75 in court costs.
Here comes my last negotiating tactic, "I would be happy to take that deal as long as I can plead "No Contest".
He lowered and shook his head and agreed.
I feel at this point that I won a huge battle but not yet the war although I'm feeling pretty darned satisfied.
I insisted on the no contest plea rather than the guilty plea for a couple of reasons.
By pleading no contest I give up the right to have the state prove their case, while that might sound like bad strategy I knew that it meant I still got to stand in front of the judge, that without having to prove the case the prosecutor and the police officer would not be in the room and that when accepting a no contest plea you have to answer a few questions from the judge, one of which is, "were you coerced in anyway?". I had also been watching her handle other cases all day and thought that I had a plan that may work but at the worse wouldn't backfire too badly.
It was now very late in the day (I had been there since 11AM) but I had been watching the judge all day and I had a plan.
I saw the prosecutor deliver my court packet and he told me to wait in the courtroom.
They called me rather quickly (I was one of about three left) and when she asked me the coercion question I told her, yes I feel like I've been coerced and I'm uncomfortable pleading no contest to this fraudulent charge but that I, in fact, did want to do it.
She asked me why I felt coerced and I detailed the day for her. She asked me to describe the case, I told her that I couldn't because it never happened but that I was well prepared to present my case on the original charge and, if necesssary go to trial.
She asked me to present it and I did.
She said, "On the charge of "Failure To Reinstate" case is dismissed"
"On the charge of Failure To Maintain Reasonable Control, I accept the ammendment to Unsafe Vehicle, I further accept your plea of no contest and I find the defendant, Not Guilty..."
Thanks Again to Everyone!What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
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