Exchange times used for entrapment

[yolandanewell]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Good morning:

Well, we're ALMOST there with a solid and workable visitation schedule for my ex-husband however once again the times of exchange are being utilized by him and his family to call the police... I need to know if my simple solution is a smart one.

A little background for those that aren't familiar with my history:

• 2007 I filed contempt for violation of DVRO/Failure to pay support;
• Day after exhub was served he began filing false police reports to the point that MPD placed premise history on home;
• He continued to file multiple modification requests which were constantly denied;
• He was told to quit filing modification requests;
• His girlfriend kept calling my job, showing to visitation exchanges and then calling the police stating that I'd threatened her life so I filed a civil restraining order with her... judge denied;
• She continued showing to visitation exchanges (100 yards from my home so the premise history was useless), she and exhusband continued to file reports (to the tune of over 60) - all of which were found to be extemporaneous;
• She then filed her own civil restraining order and I stupidly agreed to it thinking that it would mean if I cannot go near her she cannot go near me;
• At last modification hearing he voluntarily removed himself from our daughters life (by way of requesting no contact) for a period of at least 6 months, judge granted;
• In his absence I'd approached his mother and sister asking them to babysit our daughter while I went on a business trip;
• 3 weeks later I was served with a restraining order that said I'd threatened to kill them all (mother brother sister) and their dog;
• I again agreed to it thinking that if I cannot go near them they cannot go near me;
• During the absence of my exhusband I've never ran into ANY of these people nor have had any need to be around them what-so-ever;
• Nearly 9 months later we went back into mediation and the mediator and judge would only allow 4 hours of visitation for him every saturday with the exchange location being at a local McDonald's - he lives one hour away and was blocked from removing her from her county of residence because of his past failures to return her from their visits - that was put into place for three months - review set to see how she was doing;
• First two Saturdays went VERY well, our daughter has been thrilled to see dad and we had no issues;
• THIRD visit he called my office 20 minutes prior to my time to pick her up stating car troubles and to come to his moms house to get her, I refused because of the restraining orders - he said "that's all over no one is going to mess with you and the judge even said that when you pick up the baby everyone but me must stay inside and that's what will happen"... again, I refused. He reminded me of the 15 minute window of forfeit time and I knew at that point what he was saying was that if I didn't show, knowing that he couldn't get to the place of exchange, that he would be refusing to give her back at all and AGAIN the police would be involved... I believed him;
• When I showed... girlfriend out front waving at me... he then got into his car and drove to the McDonalds and called the police;
• Police have forwarded that complaint to the DA's office for prosecution;
• 4th Saturday drop off went very well, he even had his own car seat which meant I didn't have to get out of the car at all;
• At 1:50 (pick up time is 2) I retrieved 2 voicemails from my phone from his cell phone number... messages were from his girlfriend (who has the restraining order against me) stating that he had called her and wanted her to call me and tell me that I am to NOT goto McDonald's but because she had the car I was to pick her up from home (his mother lives about 7 blocks from my house);
• Second message indicated that he was at the McDonald's and that I was to go there;
• I went to the McDonald's where in the parking lot was his brother who is named in the restraining order with the mother and sister.. he waved at me;
• Again, they filed a report that I violated a restraining order;
• According to MPD, they can do that and they advised me to never again be the person to drop of my daughter or pick her up as they are obviously going to utilize that time to entrap me;
• This is a violation of the custody order as the order clearly states that I am the one to drop her off and pick her up - I'm once again in danger of more violation complaints and my daughter is once again going to be exposed to constant police interaction;

My solution to this is to NOT stop her from seeing her dad... she's been so happy lately and it's only 4 hours.

I need to find protection somehow against these times of exchange being once again utilized to cause havoc. I believe they are on their last ditch effort....

We are up for review in 8 weeks for this particular schedule and I am hoping that asking the courts to block him from taking Kalea around anyone that has a restraining order against me just might do the trick.

This will not stop her from visiting with her dad yet will give me a court document to produce when these "violation" complaints keep pouring in... since their own restraining orders aren't stopping them from coming near ME - and the ONLY time I'm around them are when my ex has our daughter... than if I can get that stopped - maybe their visits can proceed with peace.

Thoughts???What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[truebluemd]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

Good morning:

Well, we're ALMOST there with a solid and workable visitation schedule for my ex-husband however once again the times of exchange are being utilized by him and his family to call the police... I need to know if my simple solution is a smart one.

A little background for those that aren't familiar with my history:

• 2007 I filed contempt for violation of DVRO/Failure to pay support;
• Day after exhub was served he began filing false police reports to the point that MPD placed premise history on home;
• He continued to file multiple modification requests which were constantly denied;
• He was told to quit filing modification requests;
• His girlfriend kept calling my job, showing to visitation exchanges and then calling the police stating that I'd threatened her life so I filed a civil restraining order with her... judge denied;
• She continued showing to visitation exchanges (100 yards from my home so the premise history was useless), she and exhusband continued to file reports (to the tune of over 60) - all of which were found to be extemporaneous;
• She then filed her own civil restraining order and I stupidly agreed to it thinking that it would mean if I cannot go near her she cannot go near me;
• At last modification hearing he voluntarily removed himself from our daughters life (by way of requesting no contact) for a period of at least 6 months, judge granted;
• In his absence I'd approached his mother and sister asking them to babysit our daughter while I went on a business trip;
• 3 weeks later I was served with a restraining order that said I'd threatened to kill them all (mother brother sister) and their dog;
• I again agreed to it thinking that if I cannot go near them they cannot go near me;
• During the absence of my exhusband I've never ran into ANY of these people nor have had any need to be around them what-so-ever;
• Nearly 9 months later we went back into mediation and the mediator and judge would only allow 4 hours of visitation for him every saturday with the exchange location being at a local McDonald's - he lives one hour away and was blocked from removing her from her county of residence because of his past failures to return her from their visits - that was put into place for three months - review set to see how she was doing;
• First two Saturdays went VERY well, our daughter has been thrilled to see dad and we had no issues;
• THIRD visit he called my office 20 minutes prior to my time to pick her up stating car troubles and to come to his moms house to get her, I refused because of the restraining orders - he said "that's all over no one is going to mess with you and the judge even said that when you pick up the baby everyone but me must stay inside and that's what will happen"... again, I refused. He reminded me of the 15 minute window of forfeit time and I knew at that point what he was saying was that if I didn't show, knowing that he couldn't get to the place of exchange, that he would be refusing to give her back at all and AGAIN the police would be involved... I believed him;
• When I showed... girlfriend out front waving at me... he then got into his car and drove to the McDonalds and called the police;
• Police have forwarded that complaint to the DA's office for prosecution;
• 4th Saturday drop off went very well, he even had his own car seat which meant I didn't have to get out of the car at all;
• At 1:50 (pick up time is 2) I retrieved 2 voicemails from my phone from his cell phone number... messages were from his girlfriend (who has the restraining order against me) stating that he had called her and wanted her to call me and tell me that I am to NOT goto McDonald's but because she had the car I was to pick her up from home (his mother lives about 7 blocks from my house);
• Second message indicated that he was at the McDonald's and that I was to go there;
• I went to the McDonald's where in the parking lot was his brother who is named in the restraining order with the mother and sister.. he waved at me;
• Again, they filed a report that I violated a restraining order;
• According to MPD, they can do that and they advised me to never again be the person to drop of my daughter or pick her up as they are obviously going to utilize that time to entrap me;
• This is a violation of the custody order as the order clearly states that I am the one to drop her off and pick her up - I'm once again in danger of more violation complaints and my daughter is once again going to be exposed to constant police interaction;

My solution to this is to NOT stop her from seeing her dad... she's been so happy lately and it's only 4 hours.

I need to find protection somehow against these times of exchange being once again utilized to cause havoc. I believe they are on their last ditch effort....

We are up for review in 8 weeks for this particular schedule and I am hoping that asking the courts to block him from taking Kalea around anyone that has a restraining order against me just might do the trick.

This will not stop her from visiting with her dad yet will give me a court document to produce when these "violation" complaints keep pouring in... since their own restraining orders aren't stopping them from coming near ME - and the ONLY time I'm around them are when my ex has our daughter... than if I can get that stopped - maybe their visits can proceed with peace.

Thoughts???What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

you need to get that order revised such that you and dad meet at a neutral location and that dad cannot bring anyone else to the exchange, particularily anyone named in the ROs. If its in a public place, then they should be aware of your presence at that time so they are not around you. Its obvious that you have been constantly "set up." You should have never agreed to it, but maybe you can use it to modify the order so that they are not around during exchanges.


Sad that dad has got his entire family apart of the whole scheme. The more you add to the mix, the more complicated it gets.

 

[yolandanewell]

Neutral Exchange Location already determined

you need to get that order revised such that you and dad meet at a neutral location and that dad cannot bring anyone else to the exchange, particularily anyone named in the ROs. If its in a public place, then they should be aware of your presence at that time so they are not around you. Its obvious that you have been constantly "set up." You should have never agreed to it, but maybe you can use it to modify the order so that they are not around during exchanges.


Sad that dad has got his entire family apart of the whole scheme. The more you add to the mix, the more complicated it gets.

Dad has been repeatedly requesting for exchange locations to take place at the police department and I've been continuously awarded other neutral locations based off of the fact that because dad continuously calls the police with "emergency" reports our daughter has witnessed time and time again activity with the police where they are approaching me with caution... she relates her visits with her dad to these traumatic experiences and the mediator and judge both agree that a police station is innappropriate if we can do this nicely at a local, public location.... so they settled on McDonald's.

Do I wait for the next hearing 8 weeks away or do I go and file the modification immediately in order to hopefully speed up the mod and protect myself against any further violation complaints?

Is there a way to file this request and not have a hearing sooner just so that our Judge can see what is happening so soon after he was awarded limited time with our daughter?

 

[CJane]

Generally, an RO states that you're to have no contact w/the person who holds the RO. THEM waving at YOU in a public parking lot/while you're on a public street is NOT you having contact w/them.

Also, generally, if you're IN PUBLIC, you can remain in the same PUBLIC area those people are in, you simply cannot interact with / harrass them.

Make sure you know EXACTLY what the RO says. EXACTLY.

As for everything else, go ONLY to the McDonald's. DO NOT get out of your car. DO NOT approach anyone at all. DO NOT speak to anyone. Follow the custody order TO THE LETTER and when you get to court explain to the judge any conflicts between the two orders.

DO NOT answer ANY calls from him/anyone in his family. Let EVERYTHING go to VM so you have a record of it.

 

[mrslunar]

You're doing really well with everything documented like that.

If it were me, I would write him and his attorney, if he has one, a note requesting that no one else be present at the drop off and pick ups.

In addition to the above suggestions, you probably also want to add to your order that each parent much give X amount of notice if you are going to cancel/change times and past that it would be considered a forfeiture. Basically, you really need to have everything spelled out very specifically about who can and can't be at drop offs and pick ups, when they are, and what time frame they need to occur in.

Give your ex ample notice of your requests and give him one more chance. I would say, though, if this happens again, I would request an emergency hearing to temporarily stop the visits until the official review because this has to be really traumatic for your little girl. I'd think that if you are being completely legit that the judge would grant it.

On a personal note......you might consider down the road putting your daughter in daycare for the day that the goes with her dad so that you drop her at daycare, and dad picks her up from there and you don't cross paths at all. I've been doing this for almost 8 years now and I usually can get away with not seeing my ex for months at a time now. It's much easier and removes so much stress and makes it so much less likely that we will have issues.

Good luck.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

Just a thought Yolanda. If the GF thought there was soooooo much to be afraid of you that she required an RO, why in hells beans would she deliberately come an exchange point. I would bring this one up to the judge PROVING that the RO was unnecessary.

 

[CJane]

Just a thought Yolanda. If the GF thought there was soooooo much to be afraid of you that she required an RO, why in hells beans would she deliberately come an exchange point. I would bring this one up to the judge PROVING that the RO was unnecessary.

One would think so, wouldn't one?

But HisLovelyWife is at almost ALL exchanges - often-times alone. She's also approached/spoken to ME on numerous occasions, and yet continuously states in court that she's 'terrified for her safety'.

Cuz I'm skeery and stuff. I haven't spoken to HER in nearly 3 years though, and only get out of my car at exchanges if the child-lock on my car is on and Unruly can't get out. Funny that SHE is the one w/the restraining order against ME.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I know - stupid really.

I'm looking forward to my show down that coming.

 

[yolandanewell]

Update

As of this morning I had actually not been provided with a copy of the recently changed and actual order. It was told to me that it would be mailed however I'd not received it and was merely going off of what the judge had said (this will be so simple a pre-schooler can follow it) and what the mediator said (exchanges will now take place at the McDonalds located at X and X streets every Saturday from 10-2). After having visited the police station I realized Saturday that I must have the actual order in hand - I had assumed that I was being turned into the DA for violation because I'd been promised that ALL orders would be as discussed... stupid me.

I had already composed my declaration, not knowing what to do with it, it weekend. So today I took that with me to the court house to retrieve a copy of the actual order.

I then approached the clerk and asked how I got these incidences onto file without actually perpetuating another court date prematurely... she advised me to simply file a declaration and advised that YES he must be served (by mail or in person - which is fine)... she gave me the cover sheet, I attatched my prepared declaration which requested that there be two sentences added to our current custody order (thinking all along the mediator had actually done as she had said) below is the outline of what I've discovered:

• My request simply was: please add that ex hub may not visit with our daughter in the presence of ANY person having a restraining order against me (and I named them all) as they are once again creating situations to entrap me into violating those RO's AND that ex hub will return child to designated exchange location NO later than 2:15 p.m. in the absence of all parties that have restraining orders against me;
• In my declaration I outlined the events that had occured and insisted that I be protected via the custody order and reaffirmed that I never encounter these individuals UNLESS they are present at a visit with our daughter so removal of them from that situation would allow visits with dad to proceed peacefully;
• I filed the declaration;
  
  Tonight I actually READ the visitation order and am APPALLED to find the following;
  
• In spite of the fact that the mediator specifically told us that "X" location would be the designated place for exchange... she DID NOT SPECIFY...;
• The order simply states: Exchange shall take place at curbside and neither party shall allow any other person to interfere with a peaceful exchange;

So now... there is NO actual designation point confirmed in the order. Meaning that this Saturday - he can pick any curb he wants to and change the visit to his liking.

I am totally confused that if my ex produced this order to the officer that called me WHY ON EARTH HE WOULD EVEN FORWARD TO THE DA FOR PROSECUTION as the order says CURBSIDE... these entire two weeks I've been terrified that I'm going to jail or will be convicted of violating... GRRRRRR. Not only that.. but last Saturday they attempted to CHANGE the location which - in all reality - is totally his right to do as the order, again, says CURBSIDE...

When we were in with the mediator I'd asked that he not allow these people near because of their DOCUMENTED past history of utilizing visitation times to be used to entrap me. I was ONCE AGAIN dismissed - and here I am. Will they EVER LISTEN????

I'm willing to give Saturday one more shot... if there is ANY deviation from a peaceful exchange at the McDonald's (as agreed to in court yet never made it to the actual order)... I'm going to have to file for that ER hearing to stop visits until we can get back to our scheduled hearing date of 5/21.

How do I do this?

 

[yolandanewell]

They are very bold...

One would think so, wouldn't one?

But HisLovelyWife is at almost ALL exchanges - often-times alone. She's also approached/spoken to ME on numerous occasions, and yet continuously states in court that she's 'terrified for her safety'.

Cuz I'm skeery and stuff. I haven't spoken to HER in nearly 3 years though, and only get out of my car at exchanges if the child-lock on my car is on and Unruly can't get out. Funny that SHE is the one w/the restraining order against ME.

I agreed to the restraining order that GF filed AFTER I'd been turned down for my own thinking it would help... OK... yes.. STUPID.

My fear is this... the two of them AND his mother brother sister have NO care for this child at all... more hatred toward me.. it's documented all over the place that they keep screaming PUT HER IN JAIL.. so these filings against me to the DA saying that I deliberatly disobeyed a court order will possibly get their wish granted... now where in the heck does that leave the baby?????

I have a VERY healthy fear of this RO against me.. NOW.. back then.. naw.. thought it would stop the madness.

I need to find a school that teaches crazy.. I need a degree in that topic. This way I can deal with crazy - think like crazy - and potentially BE crazy in order to keep the playing grounds even with the other side..

Oops... sorry.

 

[yolandanewell]

Which Judge?

Just a thought Yolanda. If the GF thought there was soooooo much to be afraid of you that she required an RO, why in hells beans would she deliberately come an exchange point. I would bring this one up to the judge PROVING that the RO was unnecessary.

The restraining order I agreed to with her was Civil (one with mom brother sister is domestic)... it just so happens that the judge that entertained both restraining orders (mine first - DENIED on grounds that we were "fighting over who took whose boyfriend - hers second - I agreed to and GRANTED) is the same judge that sees my exhusband and I on the matter of child support. I won't go into too much history but this judge and I kinda butted heads at one point (I posted the whole story here) - we've sorta made up after he's been witnessing the multiple filings by my ex in relation to money and his continued failure to comply... I think he is starting to see me in a different light.. but not too sure of how far to push him.

Do I go and file a contempt charge against her on this matter if my custody/visitation judge fails to add her absence to the visitation orders??? Do I go and try to make it mutual???

It's all so confusing.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

The thought still is document, document, document. Use the print out from FA to create a timeline that can be used in court. You have to follow the rules of discovery in that both sides be presented with it PRIOR to court.

Don't know if this qualifies as an emergency - wouldn't in my way of thinking, but, I would certainly go back to the mediator with your notes and ask why the deviation from the meeting.

 

[yolandanewell]

Thanks TinkerBelleLuvr

The thought still is document, document, document. Use the print out from FA to create a timeline that can be used in court. You have to follow the rules of discovery in that both sides be presented with it PRIOR to court.

Don't know if this qualifies as an emergency - wouldn't in my way of thinking, but, I would certainly go back to the mediator with your notes and ask why the deviation from the meeting.

I'll keep documenting! I'll have him served with that declaration - and I MOST definetly will question why the order was not drawn up according to the agreement... to be honest with you I was just thrown for a loop with that one as the court is TIRED of seeing us in there. She may have just been having an off day.

 

[yolandanewell]

The thought still is document, document, document. Use the print out from FA to create a timeline that can be used in court. You have to follow the rules of discovery in that both sides be presented with it PRIOR to court. QUOTE]

Hi there,

Three questions..

I've been looking for this form.. cannot find it.. is it the same thing as a declaration?;

When I submitted my "declaration"... it was a typed document that I'd prepared here at home and I simply attached it to the cover page given to me by the court clerk... was that the right thing to do? (since the court supressed his address I have no way to "mail" it to him - the only time I see him is at exchanges... how long before the court date does he have to be served? Our hearing is 5/21 I don't want to rile him up too much when we have 8 visits to go);

Is it a "good idea" to actually submit a "declaration" each time we have troubles at the exchanges... it seems extreme.

Also, what are my rights to actually INSIST that our visitation order be seen BEFORE we leave the courthouse? Our last meeting went fairly well. The mediator was VERY specific verbally about what was going to happen and I felt comfortable with it. I had prepared specific requests (no RO people, specific locations for visitations, car seat must be used) which were left out of the order yet are now the main cause of trouble - I'm feeling a little caught out in the wind and unprotected right now