How/when should you request a GAL?

[doc2b]

Please help-question about requesting a GAL?

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? MI

Hi, all...

Here's the old threads, if you need them:

https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-custody-visitation-37/whats-next-step-459496.html

https://forum.freeadvice.com/child-support-98/just-opened-up-foc-case-460768.html


Things have escalated between my husband and the kids' mom, and we've decided to put off getting our house so that he can afford an attorney to try and take care of the situation.

Basically, a lot has gone to poo since their divorce, it got worse once he married me, and has taken a nosedive since he filed motions to modify parenting time and CS last month. Mom is ticked and is reacting to everything, and he's wondering how to get a GAL for the kids, if it's even appropriate, and if not...what can he really do to make sure the kid's best interest in being considered.

Can he request a GAL be assigned now that he has opened a case with FOC, or does he hire one himself for the kids? And when is a GAL really the appropriate choice, as opposed to him hiring an attorney for himself? If you need more details in order to answer, I'll be back in a bit to check the thread...

Thank you for your help.

 

[doc2b]

Okay, in a nutshell, here's what happened Friday that prompted the question:
-Thursday, Dad had scheduled an appt with daughter's ped re: 4-5 day headache, stomacheache and chest pains
-Thursday night, Dad informed mom of appointment, when she said she refused to take daughter to the appt.
-Dad took off work Friday, picked up daughter from school for appt. Mom showed up in parking lot of school, approached Dad and daughter.
-Yanked on daughter's arm while dad was holding her, hurting daugther and scaring her
-Yelled at dad for "violating [her] parenting time", and trying to kidnap "her" daughter
-Mom called police, claiming Dad was trying to kidnap "her" daughter on "her parenting time" to go to dr's appt.
-Dad said he was just making sure daughter was getting the care she needed, and that she is also "his" daughter
-Mom said that she seriously doubted he was the father to either of their kids and was going to get pat. test done (in front of their daughter )
-Continued on the phone with police to badmouth dad in parking lot, stood in front of our car preventing me from pulling out of the parking spot to drive Dad and daughter to the dr's office. (She moved after a few minutes). She told the officer I tried to hit her with the car.
-Dad went to police station to speak with the officer about the situation and avoid any issues from mom's call
-Mom drove to dr's office and "filled in" office staff on the situation, saying dad kidnapped daughter and was on his way.
-She proceeded to yell at dad, throw out the "my daughter" thing over and over, along with the threat of paternity testing in front of dr., nurses and daughter
-Dad told her to stop, that it was inappropriate time and place to discuss any of that
-Daugter (8) finally yelled "mom, stop!" twice, before her mom would stop yelling
-Dr. believes that daughter's problem is stress induced (she also thinks she has ulcers from this) and she needs counseling (finally!-assuming mom will let her go now)
-Head nurse approached dad after appt to apologize for the way that he had been treated by their staff since the divorce. Mom had apparently painted him in a very bad light, told them that she had unilateral decision making (they have joint legal), told them that she had primary custody and dad had little weekend visitation (he has 60% custody) and that he's violent and aggressive with her, and very controlling (he had a DVRO against her because she abused him and tried to go after him with a knife and hit him with a car while holding their daughter). She had witnessed everything that happened in the office, and went to review the CO and old DVRO on file at their office and saw that mom was full of BS and felt horrible that they had denied dad any say in previous visits, assuring him that this would not happen in the future.

So...what should dad be doing to help the kids? He and mom have a court date coming up (only to clarify some parts of the parenting plan and modify CS). Should he be hiring an attorney for himself, or requesting a GAL for the kids? If we can only afford to hire an attorney to help him with paperwork, etc and not to be in court with him, what would be the most important steps to take at this point? I'm lost, he's lost...he really just wants this to stop because it's starting to take it's toll on the kids and himself (I can't say I'm really enjoying it, much, either...Sorry if I wasn't objective enough, it's just really hard to be )

Please, any advice is appreciated!

 

[LdiJ]

Who is it that has 60% time, mom or dad?

One thing that I suggest is that dad not make doctor's appointments on mom's parenting time.

In this instance I also would not have escalated the hostilities by going on to the doctor's office.

Don't get me wrong, mom acted like a horse's butt, but your husband could have defused the situation.

 

[doc2b]

Who is it that has 60% time, mom or dad?

One thing that I suggest is that dad not make doctor's appointments on mom's parenting time.

In this instance I also would not have escalated the hostilities by going on to the doctor's office.

Don't get me wrong, mom acted like a horse's butt, but your husband could have defused the situation.

Thanks LD,

Dad has 60%, mom has 40%

Dad has kids from 6pm-7am wed, thurs, friday, then all day saturday through sunday afternoon...so, he couldn't schedule an appointment during his time because the office closes at 4:30pm (otherwise, it all would have been a non-issue). Dr. said she needed to be seen because chronic headache without relief for a child that age is something that requires attention right away, but that urgent care wasn't necessary since they had an appointment next day.

Dad felt like the responsible thing to do for daughter is to get her to the appointment and get the medical treatment she needed.

From now on should he just let mom get her way so she doesn't act crazy? She literally will behave this way about everything that she doesn't feel like she's in control of. (I'm asking this in all seriousness, not trying to be snarky)

 

[LdiJ]

Thanks LD,

Dad has 60%, mom has 40%

Dad has kids from 6pm-7am wed, thurs, friday, then all day saturday through sunday afternoon...so, he couldn't schedule an appointment during his time because the office closes at 4:30pm (otherwise, it all would have been a non-issue). Dr. said she needed to be seen because chronic headache without relief for a child that age is something that requires attention right away, but that urgent care wasn't necessary since they had an appointment next day.

Dad felt like the responsible thing to do for daughter is to get her to the appointment and get the medical treatment she needed.

From now on should he just let mom get her way so she doesn't act crazy? She literally will behave this way about everything that she doesn't feel like she's in control of. (I'm asking this in all seriousness, not trying to be snarky)

If it had been my child with a chronic headache, I would have headed straight to the emergency room or to an after hours clinic...particularly if I knew that anything else was going to create "drama" with mom.

Also, based on the circumstances I would do absolutely nothing that interfered, in any way, with mom's parenting time.

Yes, in a way he should let mom have her way if there are other options to deal with a situation, or if mom is not attempting to interfere with HIS parenting time. In this instance he had other options. If he had taken the child to an after hours clinic on Thursday, Friday's entire drama would have been avoided.

Or if he had let the drama end in the school parking lot, the situation wouldn't have escalated.

Also, apparently you were present for all of this too (since you apparently were driving) and in a situation like this one that is like throwing gasoline on a fire.

 

[doc2b]

If it had been my child with a chronic headache, I would have headed straight to the emergency room or to an after hours clinic...particularly if I knew that anything else was going to create "drama" with mom.

Also, based on the circumstances I would do absolutely nothing that interfered, in any way, with mom's parenting time.

Yes, in a way he should let mom have her way if there are other options to deal with a situation, or if mom is not attempting to interfere with HIS parenting time. In this instance he had other options. If he had taken the child to an after hours clinic on Thursday, Friday's entire drama would have been avoided.

Or if he had let the drama end in the school parking lot, the situation wouldn't have escalated.

Also, apparently you were present for all of this too (since you apparently were driving) and in a situation like this one that is like throwing gasoline on a fire.

I see what you're saying. He was just following the advice of his daughter ped (who is familiar with all of her symptoms), and since mom refused to take daughter to the doctor, thought he was doing the right thing. From what he understood, he is allowed to take the kids from school during school hours for dr's appointment, dentist, etc...guess that isn't the case.

Yes, I was there for this. I (or someone else) is always with my husband for exchanges/appointments, etc. because of the issues that he has had with his ex attacking him and then trying to get him arrested for being violent towards her. This was at the recommendation of both their divorce attorneys and the police. I'm not trying to get involved in anything, just being present (plus, he has intractable migraines, so I'm usually carting him around when he's not at work because driving is difficult for him).

Thanks for your feedback, LD.

 

[LdiJ]

I see what you're saying. He was just following the advice of his daughter ped (who is familiar with all of her symptoms), and since mom refused to take daughter to the doctor, thought he was doing the right thing. From what he understood, he is allowed to take the kids from school during school hours for dr's appointment, dentist, etc...guess that isn't the case.

Normally I would agree that he should be able to take the child out of school for doctor's appointments etc. However, his parenting time is specifically spelled out as being 6PM to 7AM...which makes it much murkier. By implication at least, mom's parenting time is 7AM to 6PM on those days.

Yes, I was there for this. I (or someone else) is always with my husband for exchanges/appointments, etc. because of the issues that he has had with his ex attacking him and then trying to get him arrested for being violent towards her. This was at the recommendation of both their divorce attorneys and the police. I'm not trying to get involved in anything, just being present (plus, he has intractable migraines, so I'm usually carting him around when he's not at work because driving is difficult for him).

Thanks for your feedback, LD.

I understand why dad prefers to have someone present (and also the migraine issue) however, perhaps it should be someone else as much as possible.

What I am suggesting is that dad (with your assistance) do a little bit of thinking in advance of doing. If either of you suspect that something will escalate into drama, then try to find an alternative option. The child doesn't need to witness drama if drama can be avoided.

I can just about bet that at least one of you suspected that mom would show up at school and drama would ensue. Or if you didn't, you will know for next time.

Again, don't get me wrong, mom was obviously being a horse's butt. However you both know that she is the way that she is so you need to stop creating the opportunities for her to be one.

As well intentioned as your husband was, he DID create that opportunity. He may not have realized he was doing it, but that is because he wasn't thinking about "cause and effect".

Also, he should think about how mom would describe the situation...because its important that he get inside her head as well as his own. Otherwise he could get blindsided in court or in front of a court professional.

 

[wileybunch]

If it had been my child with a chronic headache, I would have headed straight to the emergency room or to an after hours clinic...particularly if I knew that anything else was going to create "drama" with mom.

But, from a healthcare perspective -- ugh. I've had family members called in to do a CT or MRI in the middle of the night for someone that's had a headache for "weeks" and then decides today's the day to go do something about it even though it's after hours. Not the patient's problem if someone is awakened from a dead sleep to drive in to do such an MRI or CT or that the urgent care doc doesn't schedule them for one during the next business day, but just saying .... that does not constititute an "urgent" situation or a life-threatening emergency.

 

[LdiJ]

But, from a healthcare perspective -- ugh. I've had family members called in to do a CT or MRI in the middle of the night for someone that's had a headache for "weeks" and then decides today's the day to go do something about it even though it's after hours. Not the patient's problem if someone is awakened from a dead sleep to drive in to do such an MRI or CT or that the urgent care doc doesn't schedule them for one during the next business day, but just saying .... that does not constititute an "urgent" situation or a life-threatening emergency.

I realize that, but I would still err on the side of caution unless it was a child prone to headaches. My main thrust however was that it would have avoided all of the drama if dad had just gotten the child care the previous evening.

 

[doc2b]

Normally I would agree that he should be able to take the child out of school for doctor's appointments etc. However, his parenting time is specifically spelled out as being 6PM to 7AM...which makes it much murkier. By implication at least, mom's parenting time is 7AM to 6PM on those days.

Yes, that's correct (he's currently trying to modify that time so he can have the kids afterschool instead of 6pm for occassions like this)

I understand why dad prefers to have someone present (and also the migraine issue) however, perhaps it should be someone else as much as possible.

I agree, I would much rather have someone go (the ex makes my skin crawl), but I'm usually the only one available during the daytime since I don't really work much.

What I am suggesting is that dad (with your assistance) do a little bit of thinking in advance of doing. If either of you suspect that something will escalate into drama, then try to find an alternative option. The child doesn't need to witness drama if drama can be avoided.

I can just about bet that at least one of you suspected that mom would show up at school and drama would ensue. Or if you didn't, you will know for next time.

Again, don't get me wrong, mom was obviously being a horse's butt. However you both know that she is the way that she is so you need to stop creating the opportunities for her to be one.

As well intentioned as your husband was, he DID create that opportunity. He may not have realized he was doing it, but that is because he wasn't thinking about "cause and effect".

Neither of us thought she would show up...she said she wasn't taking her, and told their daughter on the phone that night that she wouldn't be getting her to take her. So no, we didn't actually think she would show, especially not to cause a scene. The thing is, my husband would have handed their daughter over to mom at the school so she could take her to the appointment, but he was stunned by her reaction and how she yanked on their daughter. He was more worried about making sure she was okay and getting her to the appointment than making mom mad at that point.

Hopefully, the parenting time issue gets straigtened out at their hearing so there are no more (or fewer, at least) opportunities for this to happen.

On to a different (and not really legal) question...what in the world is he supposed to tell their daughter about mom saying he's not their dad? She's 8 and it totally confused her. Dad said that it's absolutely not true, but now there's doubt in her mind and mom keeps pushing the issue.

 

[doc2b]

But, from a healthcare perspective -- ugh. I've had family members called in to do a CT or MRI in the middle of the night for someone that's had a headache for "weeks" and then decides today's the day to go do something about it even though it's after hours. Not the patient's problem if someone is awakened from a dead sleep to drive in to do such an MRI or CT or that the urgent care doc doesn't schedule them for one during the next business day, but just saying .... that does not constititute an "urgent" situation or a life-threatening emergency.

That's what the ped said (not an "urgent situation"). In reference to what LD said, it wasn't considered urgent because she is prone to headaches accompanied by stomache problems (so is her brother), but this one had lasted days so they felt it needed to be checked out. I guess from now on, he can hit the urgent care after the exchange instead of making doctor's appointments.

 

[LdiJ]

Yes, that's correct (he's currently trying to modify that time so he can have the kids afterschool instead of 6pm for occassions like this)

Dad should expect to give up some other time elsewhere if that is the case. That's quite a bit of time to take away from mom. Also, if dad doesn't get home from work until 6ish and mom is available for them after school, that may not fly.

 

[doc2b]

Dad should expect to give up some other time elsewhere if that is the case. That's quite a bit of time to take away from mom. Also, if dad doesn't get home from work until 6ish and mom is available for them after school, that may not fly.

He's willing to give up equal time elsewhere in the schedule (if he needs to), but overall, during the school year its a matter of 6-7 hours a week, and most of that she has the kids stay with one of their friend's while she's working, anyway.

He's worked it out with his job that he can go in early and get out of work in time to get the kids from school on the nights he has them. (Or, worst case if he's running a little late, he can be home by the time I pick them up and get them back to our place).

He originally asked for the change in times because the exchange time they currently have makes it hard to get the kids home, get them fed, do their homework, take them to their extracurriculars (which isn't very often since there isn't much time), and spend any down time before their 9pm bedtime.