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Where would the kids go?

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What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
(Not sure if this is in the right place. If it should be in the trust, will section I will place it there. Not a problem, let me know)
Years ago when my EX was out of the country with no known intent on returning (no custody when he was here) I asked my brother and his wife if they would take care of my children should something happen to me. Nothing was ever written on paper...nothing official. Now that dad is back in town (still has no custody, supervised visits) what would happen to my children if I were to fall ill or pass away? Can I choose who takes care of them while and/or if dad gets his act together?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
 


Isis1

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
(Not sure if this is in the right place. If it should be in the trust, will section I will place it there. Not a problem, let me know)
Years ago when my EX was out of the country with no known intent on returning (no custody when he was here) I asked my brother and his wife if they would take care of my children should something happen to me. Nothing was ever written on paper...nothing official. Now that dad is back in town (still has no custody, supervised visits) what would happen to my children if I were to fall ill or pass away? Can I choose who takes care of them while and/or if dad gets his act together?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
i'm too tired to go hunting.

has dad been established as dad? as in paternity?
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA
(Not sure if this is in the right place. If it should be in the trust, will section I will place it there. Not a problem, let me know)
Years ago when my EX was out of the country with no known intent on returning (no custody when he was here) I asked my brother and his wife if they would take care of my children should something happen to me. Nothing was ever written on paper...nothing official. Now that dad is back in town (still has no custody, supervised visits) what would happen to my children if I were to fall ill or pass away? Can I choose who takes care of them while and/or if dad gets his act together?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
You can certainly express a preference, but you can't will the kids to someone else.

Dad will have the right to establish paternity (if he hadn't already done so) and file for custody should anything happen to you and he'll generally be successful (there are some instances where Dad would not be awarded custody but these tend to be the exception). How old are the kids, btw?

ETA: Dad actually has the right to establish paternity and file for custody and visitation even if you're fine, dandy and more than able of taking care of the kids, btw. Just wanted to clarify that.
 
Yes dad is established as parent.
Considering that dad currently has court ordered supervised visitation, anger mngmt. classes, N/A attendance, phych eval, etc.... I wouldn't think that a judge would give him full custody until he's proven himself to be stable.
I understand that you can not will your children.
They are 16, 13 and 10. They are aware of the verbal agreement between my brother and I. The kids are all in favor of it should something happen to me.
Would my brother have to file for custody?
Where would they go in the meantime?
They can stay here until custody is established?
(we have lived here with my boyfriend for 6 years) I know that he would not receive custody so I would like to know my options and what I should get down on paper if anything.
Thanks so much.
 

Isis1

Senior Member
Yes dad is established as parent.
Considering that dad currently has court ordered supervised visitation, anger mngmt. classes, N/A attendance, phych eval, etc.... I wouldn't think that a judge would give him full custody until he's proven himself to be stable.
I understand that you can not will your children.
They are 16, 13 and 10. They are aware of the verbal agreement between my brother and I. The kids are all in favor of it should something happen to me.
Would my brother have to file for custody?
Where would they go in the meantime?
They can stay here until custody is established?
(we have lived here with my boyfriend for 6 years) I know that he would not receive custody so I would like to know my options and what I should get down on paper if anything.
Thanks so much.

you can do a standby guardianship, but that still won't set anything in stone.

if dad does his thing and works his way from supervised to unsupervised, then dad will eventually get his children.

and who knows, although you may not think so, what happens if your brother turns into a meth dealing drug addict? then someone else will step in line.
 

Proserpina

Senior Member
you can do a standby guardianship, but that still won't set anything in stone.

if dad does his thing and works his way from supervised to unsupervised, then dad will eventually get his children.

and who knows, although you may not think so, what happens if your brother turns into a meth dealing drug addict? then someone else will step in line.
In addition, I'm not sure how wise it is to have discussed this with the kids at all - you've perhaps set them up for what could be an incredibly traumatic disappointment should the worst happen and they're expecting to go live with Uncle.

I know you've done so with the best of intent, but the kids really don't get to decide where they want to live. I understand they're in favor of your wishes, but honestly, I'm not even sure I would have discussed this with them at all.

Dad does have rights. Your preferences will not necessarily override his rights, particularly as he appears to be - at least on the surface, from what you've said - doing all the right things.
 

futuredust

Senior Member
They are 16, 13 and 10. They are aware of the verbal agreement between my brother and I. The kids are all in favor of it should something happen to me.

Is there something wrong, are you terminally ill?

I cannot fathom discussing my death with my children if I were not terminally ill, kids have so much to deal with anyway. To weigh on them the thought of their parents dying seems emotionally harmful.

As Isabella stated, you can look into a standby guardianship, however, if dad comes around and becomes active in his children's lives, then he would be the person the kids lived with should you expire.
 
no, not ill

We do have a friend who is terminally ill. Completely different situation but it got me thinking about the "what ifs". My brother-in-law recently passed as well.
Questions have come up...so yes I have talked with my kids about it.
It wasn't a serious, emotional conversation. We talked very nonchalantly over diner. It wasn't much different than having a sex or drug talk that we have regularly or for that matter not much different than talking about grades or what to wear for the day.
I want my kids "know" what could happen (no guarantees of staying with uncle) rather than be in a panic when and if something does to happen to me.
This way uncle, grandma, the neighbor, and yes even dad knows what will happen with the children.
In the meantime, this is what I have learned.
Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.
I. Designation of Standby Guardian
California lawmakers inserted standby guardian elements into a law governing joint guardians. The intent is to minimize children's stress and disruption "whenever the parent is incapacitated or upon the parent's death." [Probate 2105(f)] There is no legal process special to this kind of guardianship: it moves through the court like any other request to designate a guardian.

The basis for the request to the court to appoint a joint guardian is the parent's "terminal condition as evidenced by a declaration executed by a licensed physician." The physician's declaration would describe "an incurable and irreversible condition that, without the administration of life-sustaining treatment, will, within reasonable medical judgment, result in death." [Probate 2105(f)] Beyond that, there is no triggering event, because the guardianship is not contingent upon some future event: joint care and custody begin as soon as the court appoints the co-guardian.

There is no requirement that the designation be in an attested document. The name of the proposed joint guardian appears in the petition for appointment. [Probate 1510 et seq.] While it is reasonable to assume that the parent's designation would carry significant weight with the court, there is no assurance that the parent's wishes would dominate the court's analysis.


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II. Agreement of the Non-Custodial Parent

Both parents must be named in the petition for appointment and the non-custodial parent must be given notice within 15 days of the hearing. [Probate 1510-15ll]. A guardian shall not be appointed over the objection of the non-custodial parent "without a finding that the non-custodial parent's custody would be detrimental to the minor." [Probate 2105(f)] The process for proving that the other parent's care of the child would be detrimental is found in the Family Code at sec.3041. Thus, if the non-custodial parent won't agree to the appointment, the custodial parent does have a way to overcome that barrier, although it will require a hearing (perhaps combined with the hearing on guardianship), giving parties an opportunity to present evidence.

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III. Role of the Standby Guardian

From the moment of appointment as a joint guardian, decisions are shared by both parent and guardian [Probate 2105(b), (c)(1), and (f)] The legislative intent was for the parent to "make arrangements for the joint care, custody and control" of the children "whenever the parent is incapacitated, or upon the parent's death." [at (f)] That language suggests that the guardian would want to step into the background when the parent's illness is in remission and she is able to parent effectively, but no process is suggested for working out decision-making arrangements.

The duties of a guardian are the care, custody and control of the child. [Probate 2105(f); 2351] These powers are activated as soon as the appointment is made, and end only when the parent dies, or the guardian is replaced, or (presumably) the appointment is revoked. If the joint guardian becomes the permanent guardian, the duties cease when the child attains majority or dies or is adopted or emancipated. [Probate 1600]


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IV. Court Process

A relative, a child of 12 or older, or any other person may file a petition for appointment of a joint guardian, beginning the process. [Probate 1510] The petition names the proposed guardian as well as the child and the parents. Along with the petition, a licensed physician's statement must be submitted, declaring that the parent is suffering from a terminal condition that is "incurable and irreversible." [Probate 2105(F)]

A court hearing is scheduled at this initial point. There are no other triggering events requiring court confirmation. There is no provision for automatic transformation of the joint guardianship into a permanent guardianship upon the parent's death. In fact, the Joint Guardianship provision was established "to avoid the need to provide a temporary guardian…pending appointment of a guardian" as might otherwise be required upon the parent's death. [Probate 2105(f)]

The court hearing is conducted according to a standard of "best interests of the child." Sources of guidance for the judge as to what is in the child's best interests might be found in the Family Code which describes factors to be weighed in custody decisions, and the Probate Code which addresses the long term welfare of the child. (Note that the Probate Code specifically refers to the Family Code for guidance in matters of child welfare). If the child is of "sufficient age to form an intelligent preference," the child's wishes will be considered. [Probate 1514 (e) and Family 3011 and 3040.]

The guardianship is permanent when established.
 

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