Automobile replacement parts law

[GEOStormchaser]

How many years are auto manufacturers required to make parts for cars that are no longer being made? If the number of years changed, when did it change. I specifically am interested in what the law would have been in 1999 for cars made in 1992 but discontinued in 1993. Reference to the applicable statute would also be helpful.

Apparently there was a recall on a part in 1999 that I need now for my 1992 Geo Storm GSI and there are also consumer compliants registered with the NHSTA, but no defect investigations that I could find. The part at issue is the ECM (computer module). I am the original owner of my 17 y.o. Storm and love the car. I just recently had to replace the computer and it's the remanufacturered/replacement part that is ruining my car. We're ordering another one, but after reading what I've just read this weekend I'm not optimistic. I found the recall notice well documented in an Isuzu 1999 recall notice and also in a WikiAnswer.

I'm just trying to prepare for what may be an exhaustive "argument" with GM over my car that runs like a top, or did before I replaced the computer when it began to no longer keep the ac cool. Had I known what I know now I might have done without the ac. It's too late for that now. The dealership that has done all the service on my Geo is going to order another ECM, but I'm concerned they are all going to be defective. I knew that one of these days I would have trouble finding a part, but to find one and learn that it was part of a recall 6 years after the last Storm was made - 7 years after my year; and the remedy was ignored...this really bumbs me out.

I have a student loan late in life and do not need a new car expense right now. My 17 y.o. Storm is not your typical 17 y.o. car. I've kept it serviced and rebuilt/replaced parts to keep it running - and now this one part threatens to destroy my car and the investment I have in it.

I appreciate if you can direct me to the statute relative to car part availability. I've searched and searched on the Internet and can't find it.

 

[BL]

I can't refer you to any laws on parts availability ,but I can refer you to a site . Batauto.com ,to register and post question on repairs . Follow the rules .

Mention the recalls and ask their opinions on your best bets .These folks are great .

Good luck .

 

[TheGeekess]

And I have the feeling that you can't find the law because there is no law that makes a manufacturer store/make parts forever for any given item. Then there'd be no planned obsolescence and no reason to buy anything new.

 

[GEOStormchaser]

Thank you

Thank you for the replies - #2, I'll check out the site you recommended.
#3, I know there's something on "the books" somewhere that auto manufacturers have to supply parts for cars for up to 10 years. I recently heard that's been cut down to 7. What I don't know is where that law is posted - and specifically I am interested in when the law changed, if it did change. It's wrong that consumer complaints and a recall were ignored when the problems with the ECM were found within the 10 year "statute" - if it is indeed a statute. That's what I want to know. I'll find my answers, but appreciate any help I can get here.

 

[BL]

Thank you for the replies - #2, I'll check out the site you recommended.
#3, I know there's something on "the books" somewhere that auto manufacturers have to supply parts for cars for up to 10 years. I recently heard that's been cut down to 7. What I don't know is where that law is posted - and specifically I am interested in when the law changed, if it did change. It's wrong that consumer complaints and a recall were ignored when the problems with the ECM were found within the 10 year "statute" - if it is indeed a statute. That's what I want to know. I'll find my answers, but appreciate any help I can get here.

Many of those fine folks on the site's forum I mentioned are mechanics .

They may know the answer , as well .

I suppose you could always check salvage yards , and if you found an auto , find how to tell an OEM from a recalled version .

 

[Zigner]

Thank you for the replies - #2, I'll check out the site you recommended.
#3, I know there's something on "the books" somewhere that auto manufacturers have to supply parts for cars for up to 10 years. I recently heard that's been cut down to 7. What I don't know is where that law is posted - and specifically I am interested in when the law changed, if it did change. It's wrong that consumer complaints and a recall were ignored when the problems with the ECM were found within the 10 year "statute" - if it is indeed a statute. That's what I want to know. I'll find my answers, but appreciate any help I can get here.

You have a 1992 vehicle. Even if what you say is true, it won't matter. You are asking for action NOW, not in 1999...

Time to start shopping for a new vehicle!

ETA: As I'm thinking more about it, something doesn't make sense. You say that you are the original owner and that you have had it serviced MANY times at the dealer. GM has your contact info. You would have received notice of the recall at the time it happened.

ETAA: I'm not even finding recalls for the item you mentioned on your car.

 

[GEOStormchaser]

Correction - recall "effort" not official recall

See: The IsuzuWeb; Recall Effort
for the complete article. Here is an excerpt:

Shortly after the last issue of Resurgence went to press, a recall effort was initiated by the members of the IsuzuWeb to force Isuzu and GM to address and repair an all too common faulty ECU/computer problem with the 1989-93 1.6 liter and 1.8 liter computer control systems in the Isuzu I-Mark RS, Isuzu Impulse XS and RS, Isuzu Stylus S, XS, and RS, Geo Storm 12 Valve and GSi, and Asuna Sunfire vehicles. These models all use the AC Delco ignition and fuel system and utilize AC Delco ECUs/computers (ECU means Electronic Control Unit, also smetimes referred to as a ECM or Electronic Control Module). The problem is that between 1985 and 1995, AC Delco used a insulative spray on the circuit boards in these ECUs/computers which shrinks over time when exposed to warm and cool temperature conditions, such as the normal conditions that an automobile is subjected to. The shrinking insulative spray contracts and pulls the electronic components from the circuit board, breaking solder connections and causing shorts.


The symptoms of this fault are most notably erratic idle, idle revving and dropping, idle dipping often with engine dying, idle hanging high above 2,000 RPM, and engine dying or stalling for no reason with no trouble codes. These symptoms will often only occur in warmer weather as the metal circuits of the circuit board seem most vulnerable to short circuits at solder cracks when the temperature within the car is above 80 degrees Fahrenheit. In temperate climates, the symptoms may first show themselves as soon as the weather warms and plague the owner all summer long, only to subside in the Fall with the cooler weather and then reappear the next Spring.

GM knows about this fault in their AC Delco ECUs/computers and has even gone so far as to include supplemental instructions on how to test for shorts and broken circuits in the ECU/computer to their technical literature, though they refuse to repair or replace the problem at their own expense. GM went further and began using a different insulative spray on all of their ECUs/computers in 1996, though they do not use this new spray on their factory reconditioned ECUs/computers for the Geo Storm models.

End of quote - more of my opinion. There is also a very detailed explanation of the problem posted in WikiAnswers. I also queried the NHTSA site and found a long, long list of consumer complaints all related to the issue, but nothing in the recall/defective investigations - which means nobody paid attention to the problem.

I know it isn't 1999, but in 1999 somebody (GM) had a duty to continue to make parts for these cars. I have a right to a "good" part for my car that was made within 10 years of 1993, the last year the Storm was made, which would have been 2003 - assuming one is available. My mechanic at the Chevrolet dealership I use tells me there are plenty - but if they are all this same substandard remanufactured lot, unless I get lucky...and if we have to order a different one every two weeks or so until I get one that settles in right. There is a calibration period and maybe I'll get lucky with the next one or the one after that.

I'm trying to be prepared for what I do next. I'm also going to be trying to find somebody who can rebuild the remanufactured one.

Appreciate the posts - and will certainly let you know what happens with my situation. You may not understand unless you're one of the Geo Storm fans as I am. There are a few of us left around the country. I have every piece of paper related to my car, from original ownership documents to every maintenance receipt. I've spent a little to keep it running like a top - and it did until we put this replacement computer in the car. To find out now about this long history with this particular part - I don't care that it's 17 years old. There are older cars on the road. GM owes me an ECM that works!

 

[justalayman]

I have a right to a "good" part for my car that was made within 10 years of 1993, the last year the Storm was made, which would have been 2003 - assuming one is available!

so, your 10 years have expired. The guy with a 2003 is doing great but you are out of luck.

that is with accepting the statement that a manufacturer is required to maintain parts for 10 years.

I just poked for a second and came up with this place. They claim a lifetime warranty:

http://www.autoecmecu.com/geo-ecu-ecm-page_2.html

 

[Zigner]

...or did before I replaced the computer when it began to no longer keep the ac cool.

But, now you claim the symptoms are:

...most notably erratic idle, idle revving and dropping, idle dipping often with engine dying, idle hanging high above 2,000 RPM, and engine dying or stalling for no reason with no trouble codes. These symptoms will often only occur in warmer weather as the metal circuits of the circuit board seem most vulnerable to short circuits at solder cracks when the temperature within the car is above 80 degrees Fahrenheit. In temperate climates, the symptoms may first show themselves as soon as the weather warms and plague the owner all summer long, only to subside in the Fall with the cooler weather and then reappear the next Spring.

That has nothing to do with the reason you replaced your unit.

I really don't see that you have ANY recourse against GM

 

[GEOStormchaser]

Thanks for all replies

To Justalayman and Zigner,

Storms were made 1990-1993. Mine is a 1992. If the 10 year parts rule applies in 1999 when Resurgence Magazine ran the article on the Isuzu recall effort, that's within 10 years for all models, including my 1992. If bad parts were being made within that 10 year period, "somebody" didn't fulfill their obligation to supply parts for Geo Storms up to 10 years.

As for the reason I replaced the unit, you're missing the point. My original ECM stopping functioning partially and was replaced. Replacing it fixed the ac and even the dashboard warning lights that hadn't worked in years are now working - but the remanufactured ECM is causing the idle/rpm issues. A correctly remanufactured ECM would have a reasonable "learning mode" period. It's been over one month and it's not better, in fact it's worse. Part of being worse is that we, mechanic and I, didn't realize this part was plagued as it is and have fixed other things...which I'm reading is what everyone does not realizing it's a defective ECM. Only when I "Googled" for answers did I learn that it's the ECM, because GM no longer carries the diagnostics in their computer for my car and I can understand that. I wouldn't expect them to carry diagnostic info on the Storm.

I am so grateful to those who reported the problem as far back as they did. I don't know where I'm going with this, except that I at least have a 12-month, 12,000 mile warranty on the ECM replacement part I bought a month ago - and the dealership has ordered another one. We'll keep replacing them until we find a good one, if that's possible. I'm fortunate that I have a good relationship with those people. I know one of these days my luck will run out with this car. I just have difficulty accepting that a part that was remanufactured improperly within the 10 year period that parts were supposed to have continued to be made for my car may be why I have to park the car.

Is GM obligated to make parts now? No. But, they were in 2000 for the 1990 model, 2001 for the 1991, 2002 for the 1992, and 2003 for the 1993. I can only assume nobody forced the official recall, because they knew the Geo line was being discontinued. What's sad is that GM was ahead of their time with the Geo line. It was a popular line of cars and it was always my understanding, right or wrong, that GM would have continued the Geo line, but that the companies they contracted with to make them didn't want to continue making them.

For the record, my Internet search was initiated by me to try to find an explanation for why my car hadn't run right since the new computer was installed - and thanks to all who had similar problems who posted their experiences, I at least have more knowledge - and I've shared it with my mechanic - and this may be helpful when the next ECM arrives later this week. I don't fault my dealership or the mechanic - in fact, I wanted him and the service manager to know, this isn't their fault.

In the meantime, I like a good challenge every now and then and I'm going to continue researching this issue by following up on different leads. I may be venturing into uncharted territory, but from where I'm sitting if I had a right to a part in 1999 and GM failed to make that part properly, and I now need that part - a part that I had a right to find that was made in 1999, and the only ones I can find are the defective ones because they ignored pleas to correct the insulation spray used on the remanufactured ones...well, there's something wrong with that. I may have an advantage over the average car owner in that I have a complete maintenance history on my car. Body has a few blemishes from never being in a garage and ordinary dings. I fix the little things myself and have thankfully avoided any major collisions. I've never had an auto insurance claim in my life and am proud of that.

I know it's just a car, but it's my car and like a lot of people out there - I have a student loan I'm paying back and trying to keep my head above water. I need this car to last a couple more years if it will - and I believe it will if we can stabilize this ECM problem. I've replaced/rebuilt almost everything else in the past 10 years, except for clutch and transmission...and this ECM issue isn't helping the clutch - but after reading what I've read, I'm being more careful - then I'll be saying a lot of prayers when the next ECM is installed.

I'll post what happens. I know I'm not the only person who has chosen to repair and drive an old car, rather than buy a new one. Imagine you've just bought a new Mustang or Camaro and 7-10 years from now if they don't make them any more. You still want to keep your car, and there was a remanufactured part unique to those cars that was defectively produced and Ford or GM ignored the problem. You need that part and the only ones you can find are the bad ones they let slide through the system. They may not be obligated to forever make parts for our cars, but within the time period that they were - we have a right to expect that those parts were made to proper specifications and an equitable number of good parts were remanufactured to replace those that were defectively made. Anything less and they breached a contract with the consumer who bought the vehicles.

I used to trade every 3-4 years, but got away from that with the car I had before my Geo which I drove for 9 years before trading it on the Storm. I never thought I would keep a car this long - and have had another new one during this time that I no longer have, and will probably buy another new second car at the end of the year, but I still want to keep my Storm going as long as I can. If/when I sell it, I'll either sell it whole to another Geo Storm collector or I'll sell off the parts I've put in it (sniff) to other Geo Storm owners.

Wish me luck with the next replacement ECM!

 

[Zigner]

To Justalayman and Zigner,

Storms were made 1990-1993. Mine is a 1992. If the 10 year parts rule applies in 1999 when Resurgence Magazine ran the article on the Isuzu recall effort, that's within 10 years for all models, including my 1992. If bad parts were being made within that 10 year period, "somebody" didn't fulfill their obligation to supply parts for Geo Storms up to 10 years.

...and you're about 7 years too late to do anything about it (using your "10 year rule).

 

[racer72]

What 10 year rule? Only 4 years after they quit selling Yugos in the US, I could not get a water pump for one, new or rebuilt. I had to scrap an almost perfectly good POS because of this. I got more from it by selling it for parts than I would have whole.

 

[GEOStormchaser]

There YUGO!

I remember the Yugo. Never see them any more.
I'm usually pretty good with the Internet searches, but the "10 year" thing - if it does exist, is buried. It's what I've always heard. I'm thinking it's buried in the Federal Code of Regulations or something like that, but I haven't found it. I'm just more curious than anything else.

A second replacement computer is on order for my Geo Storm. This one is settling in better, but it's still not great. I'm fortunate to have a great relationship with my local Chevrolet dealership. Mine is the only Storm they see any more. Believe they see one or two Metros. My computer part comes with a 12 month warranty so about 6 weeks into the first replacement we're going to see if the second one works any better. It will take a few weeks to give this next one time to calibrate, which is mainly annoying while accelerating and decelerating.

Unrelated, finally found the source of a rattle under the car that that only cost $10 to fix. It was exhaust system related.

If this next computer will work a little better than the one I have - performance wise my 17 y.o. car will drive like an almost new one, because I've otherwise taken such good care of it and kept it maintained. I saw one suped up and offered for sale on eBay that went for over $9K. It was equipped for racing. Mine hasn't been upgraded in that way, but it could be. I keep hoping GM will bring the Geo back. The Metro and Storm were both great cars. The Metro gets great gas mileage, because it's a 3 cylinder. Mine averages low-mid 20's.

Wish me luck with next ECM. Driving a 17 y.o. car is one way I express my individuality. I love driving a car that nobody else has.

 

[BL]

So ,did you check out the mechanics advice on the throttle body for carbon buildup ?

 

[channan7]

2008 Chevy Tahoe Hybrid Oil Pump - New replacement part unavailable?

I could use some feedback on this one -

Recently my oil pump failed and caused low oil pressure. This resulted in a catastrophic engine failure - thrown rod. Rather than dwell on the cause, I 'm more interested in where to go from here. 133K miles so out of warranty period.

Agreed to install a new engine. Also wanted new oil pump. Estimate $6k.

Chevy dealer has had vehicle for 3+ weeks. Turns out there are no new oil pumps available in the GM part network. NONE. Talked personally to the GM parts rep in Michigan today. None available at any factory. His recommendation - find a good used one.

After agreeing to a new engine, I shouldn't have to accept a used oil pump since this was the cause of the engine failure in the first place. So without a new oil pump I have 6000 lbs of scrap metal and plastic - the vehicle here and the new engine over there....

A 5 year old vehicle with no spare part available?

Has GM failed to uphold their end of an implied contract that they will have spare parts available for a 5 yr old vehicle? It's a Tahoe Hybrid for god's sake, not an experimental one of a kind. By the way, the Tahoe Hybrid is still being manufactured with a 6L V8 engine like the one I have.

Thoughts?