Parent Not Exercising Visitation Question

[olikolik]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

I recently obtained full custody of my child from her Mother. Today during her 3 hour visit with her Mom, she was told by her Mother that the family is moving to another state Friday and today would be the last time she sees her family and gave no time or date when she will return. Her Mom said she has accepted a job and they have obtained residence already so it is a long term deal.

Just to clarify, I have used the search feature before posting. I realize that visitation is a right not an obligation and that her Mom is not required to see her.

I would like to know if there is some rule or law that will eliminate visitation rights if they are not exercised regularly. Or is there something I can do after a period of no visitation to eliminate the parental right of visitation. Will the court eliminate a parent's visitation all together if it is not excercised? If so, what is a good amount of time to wait until going forward with trying to change the court order?

This is causing my daughter a tremendous amount of pain and suffering at this point. She is being abondoned by her Mother and being seperated from 4 sisters that she has been around since birth. If her Mother chooses to move and not be a part of her life, I want to make sure that she cannot just show up in a year and take her for visitation without contacting us or some sort of communication. My purpose is not vengeance or spite, my purpose is to avoid future hurt to my child with a parent popping in and out of her life.

Question 2 : Is there any law or motion I can file for to provide my daughter with visitation with her siblings? If the Mother does not want to exercise her rights, does this go for the children as well?

I hope I expressed my question and intent properly, if I can provide any more information that is helpful to give an answer please just ask.

Thank you ahead of time for any help.

 

[proud_parent]

I would like to know if there is some rule or law that will eliminate visitation rights if they are not exercised regularly.

Short answer: No.

Or is there something I can do after a period of no visitation to eliminate the parental right of visitation. Will the court eliminate a parent's visitation all together if it is not excercised? If so, what is a good amount of time to wait until going forward with trying to change the court order?

The Court will not revoke a parent's right to parenting time absent clear and convincing evidence that such an arrangement is harmful to the child(ren).

In cases where a parent ceases meaningful contact with the child for an extended period, the Court may entertain a motion to modify the parenting time order to reduce visits and/or require a gradual "re-introduction" period before the previous visitation schedule may be resumed. In determining whether such a modification should be granted, the Court would consider a number of factors including the length of the absence, the child's age, and the frequency of contact and nature of the parent-child relationship prior to the period of absence.

This is causing my daughter a tremendous amount of pain and suffering at this point. She is being abondoned by her Mother and being seperated from 4 sisters that she has been around since birth.

I strongly urge you to get your daughter into counseling.

If her Mother chooses to move and not be a part of her life, I want to make sure that she cannot just show up in a year and take her for visitation without contacting us or some sort of communication. My purpose is not vengeance or spite, my purpose is to avoid future hurt to my child with a parent popping in and out of her life.

You cannot control Mom's behavior. Understand also that Mom's intentions with regard to maintaining a relationship with your daughter may well change over time.

I can sympathize with your situation. My husband was awarded custody (temporary physical custody initially, then sole physical/legal) of his daughter nearly three years ago. Dad enlisted the help of a child therapist the first week that Kiddo came to live with us, and we have continued to work closely with this counselor as Mom's interest and involvement has waxed and waned. As of now, Mom hasn't seen her child in two and a half years. At one point, Mom declared her intention to cease all contact, and she did so for several months before changing her mind. She gradually resumed regular phone contact, and has recently expressed a desire to resume physical visits as well.

You cannot guarantee the future, nor can you protect your child from every emotional upset. What you can do is to reassure your child that she will continue to have your love and support no matter what difficult circumstances the two of you may encounter.

Question 2 : Is there any law or motion I can file for to provide my daughter with visitation with her siblings? If the Mother does not want to exercise her rights, does this go for the children as well?.

I'll defer to OhioGal on this subject. She's a practicing attorney and guardian at litem for children in your state.

I hope I expressed my question and intent properly, if I can provide any more information that is helpful to give an answer please just ask.

Thank you ahead of time for any help.

You're welcome.

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Ohio

I recently obtained full custody of my child from her Mother. Today during her 3 hour visit with her Mom, she was told by her Mother that the family is moving to another state Friday and today would be the last time she sees her family and gave no time or date when she will return. Her Mom said she has accepted a job and they have obtained residence already so it is a long term deal.

Just to clarify, I have used the search feature before posting. I realize that visitation is a right not an obligation and that her Mom is not required to see her.

I would like to know if there is some rule or law that will eliminate visitation rights if they are not exercised regularly. Or is there something I can do after a period of no visitation to eliminate the parental right of visitation. Will the court eliminate a parent's visitation all together if it is not excercised? If so, what is a good amount of time to wait until going forward with trying to change the court order?

This is causing my daughter a tremendous amount of pain and suffering at this point. She is being abondoned by her Mother and being seperated from 4 sisters that she has been around since birth. If her Mother chooses to move and not be a part of her life, I want to make sure that she cannot just show up in a year and take her for visitation without contacting us or some sort of communication. My purpose is not vengeance or spite, my purpose is to avoid future hurt to my child with a parent popping in and out of her life.

Question 2 : Is there any law or motion I can file for to provide my daughter with visitation with her siblings? If the Mother does not want to exercise her rights, does this go for the children as well?

I hope I expressed my question and intent properly, if I can provide any more information that is helpful to give an answer please just ask.

Thank you ahead of time for any help.

The problem with the bolded dad is how do you propose that to happen? Do you propose that the judge order mom to turn over her other 4 children to you periodically so that your daughter can visit with them? If so, there is very little chance of a judge ever ordering something like that, even in states where siblings have standing to sue for visitation.

Is mom limited to supervised visitation of your daughter? If not, why can't a long distance plan be put into effect that allows your daughter to travel to her mother out of state periodically?

I have reviewed your posting history and you have been trying to find reasons for the last 5 years to take full custody of your daughter. She should be 14-15 now. There was never anything in any of your posts to indicate that mom was unfit to the extent of requiring supervised visitation. So unless something major changed in the last couple of years there should be no reason why your child cannot travel out of state to visit her mother.

Therefore, if your daughter really is in pain because her mother and sisters are leaving, then why don't you take it back to court to get a long distance plan put into effect, so that your daughter can still spend some time with her mother and sisters?

 

[Ohiogal]

The problem with the bolded dad is how do you propose that to happen? Do you propose that the judge order mom to turn over her other 4 children to you periodically so that your daughter can visit with them? If so, there is very little chance of a judge ever ordering something like that, even in states where siblings have standing to sue for visitation.

Is mom limited to supervised visitation of your daughter? If not, why can't a long distance plan be put into effect that allows your daughter to travel to her mother out of state periodically?

I have reviewed your posting history and you have been trying to find reasons for the last 5 years to take full custody of your daughter. She should be 14-15 now. There was never anything in any of your posts to indicate that mom was unfit to the extent of requiring supervised visitation. So unless something major changed in the last couple of years there should be no reason why your child cannot travel out of state to visit her mother.

Therefore, if your daughter really is in pain because her mother and sisters are leaving, then why don't you take it back to court to get a long distance plan put into effect, so that your daughter can still spend some time with her mother and sisters?

Actually LD you are incorrect regarding sibling visitation in certain situations. I do not know if this that situation. I would think that it possibly could be.

OP please answer the following questions:
Was mom married to the father(s) of the siblings when the children were born?
Where are the father(s) of the siblings?
How old are the siblings?

You should petition the court for a long distance visitation order so that mom is granted a visitation schedule. Also you may want to consider putting your child in counseling in order to deal with this. mom is not abandoning her child and you should NOT be referring to it that way unless mom herself referred to it in those words. And even then you should not tell the CHILD that. Mom is moving for a job in order to support herself and others (including your mutual child).

 

[LdiJ]

Actually LD you are incorrect regarding sibling visitation in certain situations. I do not know if this that situation. I would think that it possibly could be.

What did I say that was incorrect? He was never the stepfather of these siblings as they were all born subsequent to his daughter. Therefore there would be little likelihood that a judge would force mom to turn them over to him so that his daughter could visit with them. So what I am missing?

Edit to add: I got that info from his previous postings going back to 2004.

 

[Ohiogal]

What did I say that was incorrect? He was never the stepfather of these siblings as they were all born subsequent to his daughter. Therefore there would be little likelihood that a judge would force mom to turn them over to him so that his daughter could visit with them. So what I am missing?

Edit to add: I got that info from his previous postings going back to 2004.

The child can have standing to sue for sibling visitation in Ohio in certain situations. So it is possible. And courts can award it.

 

[LdiJ]

The child can have standing to sue for sibling visitation in Ohio in certain situations. So it is possible. And courts can award it.

I understand that the child can have standing in certain situations. However, whenever a child has standing that means that a judge has to order a parent to turn over their children to an adult who is in charge of that child, to facilitate the visitation, if the judge wants to award visitation to the child. That becomes very problematic in a case like this one.

Particularly since mom can certainly have visitation and the siblings can visit then.

 

[Ohiogal]

I understand that the child can have standing in certain situations. However, whenever a child has standing that means that a judge has to order a parent to turn over their children to an adult who is in charge of that child, to facilitate the visitation, if the judge wants to award visitation to the child. That becomes very problematic in a case like this one.

Particularly since mom can certainly have visitation and the siblings can visit then.

No it does not become problematic. but keep arguing with me on Ohio law. This should be enjoyable.

 

[LdiJ]

Every state focuses heavily on the best interests of the child. However sibling visitation is more frequently a product of a situation where one of the siblings is an adult. When all siblings are children, the situation becomes more complex. See my response above to OG.

 

[LdiJ]

No it does not become problematic. but keep arguing with me on Ohio law. This should be enjoyable.

I am not arguing with you...I am asking you how you envision it working in this scenario?

Taking this particular scenario, where the CP of the sibling in question, has no connection of any kind to the siblings the child wants to have visitation with, and please tell me what kind of an order you envision a judge making?

Do you envision that a judge would order mom to send her other children to stay with this child's father in order to faciliate visitation?

Sibling visitation can and does get granted sometimes. However the cases where it gets granted are usually those where one of the siblings is an adult, or where the siblings have a grandparent/aunt/uncle in common who has custody of one of them. Its even possible with a former stepparent having custody of one of them.

But what makes no sense here, is there is apparently no reason why mom should not have regular long distance visitation with the child, therefore no need for a separate sibling visitation order.

 

[proud_parent]

I don't see that OP is arguing that Mom should not have regular long distance visitation, or that he would not support her exercise of visitation if such a schedule were ordered.

I understood that Mom told Daughter that the child will not see her family again due to Mom's move out of state. I may have been reading too much into it (based on my own experience), but I inferred that Mom has indicated that she does not intend to exercise any visitation in the foreseeable future after her move.

So I understood that Dad's question is not "Can Daughter visit with her siblings on Mom's visitation time?", but rather "If Mom chooses to NOT exercise visitation time with Daughter, can I do anything to establish Daughter's right to visit with her out-of-state siblings independent of Mom's choice?"

 

[olikolik]

There were alot of replies and info, so I will try to go through them and answer what I can.
LDiJ:
Quote
"I have reviewed your posting history and you have been trying to find reasons for the last 5 years to take full custody of your daughter. She should be 14-15 now. There was never anything in any of your posts to indicate that mom was unfit to the extent of requiring supervised visitation. So unless something major changed in the last couple of years there should be no reason why your child cannot travel out of state to visit her mother.

Therefore, if your daughter really is in pain because her mother and sisters are leaving, then why don't you take it back to court to get a long distance plan put into effect, so that your daughter can still spend some time with her mother and sisters?"

You are correct. I have been pursuing custody of my child for around 5 years. Since you read through my posts, I am sure you have read some of the conditions and problems we were having. Something major did change, major enough for the state to give me full custody and at first her Mom had no visitation rights. She now has the state minimum visitation. My daughter is really hurt at he fact that her Mother decided to uproot the family to move away. I cannot force her Mom to see her. She has decided that she does not wish to see her at this point making a long distance plan pointless.

Your answer about do I expect the Mom to drop off kids that are not mine for visitation does make sense to me. I did not think about this when I posted. It would be nice however if there was something I could do to keep the sisters in contact, that is all I am trying to do.

OhioGal:
Thank you for understanding the question and answering it...again.

To answer your questions:
Was mom married to the father(s) of the siblings when the children were born?
Yes she was but is now divorced.

Where are the father(s) of the siblings?
In the state that the Mother plans to move to.

How old are the siblings?
11,9,4,4

ProudParent:

You hit the nail on the head. I would be willing to consider a long distance plan. The Mother does not want this. I just was looking for a way to keep the sisters in contact when the Mother has no plans to do so.

I have had my daughter going to counseling before this situation and I will keep taking her. Thank you though for your consideration and worry about her well being.

If I missed something or you have more questions please just ask. I am not trying to start an arguement or take up anyone's time. I am just in a situation where I need to know what I can and cannot do.

Thanks again for your time and help.

 

[LdiJ]

There were alot of replies and info, so I will try to go through them and answer what I can.
LDiJ:
Quote
"I have reviewed your posting history and you have been trying to find reasons for the last 5 years to take full custody of your daughter. She should be 14-15 now. There was never anything in any of your posts to indicate that mom was unfit to the extent of requiring supervised visitation. So unless something major changed in the last couple of years there should be no reason why your child cannot travel out of state to visit her mother.

Therefore, if your daughter really is in pain because her mother and sisters are leaving, then why don't you take it back to court to get a long distance plan put into effect, so that your daughter can still spend some time with her mother and sisters?"

You are correct. I have been pursuing custody of my child for around 5 years. Since you read through my posts, I am sure you have read some of the conditions and problems we were having. Something major did change, major enough for the state to give me full custody and at first her Mom had no visitation rights. She now has the state minimum visitation. My daughter is really hurt at he fact that her Mother decided to uproot the family to move away. I cannot force her Mom to see her. She has decided that she does not wish to see her at this point making a long distance plan pointless.

Your answer about do I expect the Mom to drop off kids that are not mine for visitation does make sense to me. I did not think about this when I posted. It would be nice however if there was something I could do to keep the sisters in contact, that is all I am trying to do.

OhioGal:
Thank you for understanding the question and answering it...again.

To answer your questions:
Was mom married to the father(s) of the siblings when the children were born?
Yes she was but is now divorced.

Where are the father(s) of the siblings?
In the state that the Mother plans to move to.

How old are the siblings?
11,9,4,4

ProudParent:

You hit the nail on the head. I would be willing to consider a long distance plan. The Mother does not want this. I just was looking for a way to keep the sisters in contact when the Mother has no plans to do so.

I have had my daughter going to counseling before this situation and I will keep taking her. Thank you though for your consideration and worry about her well being.

If I missed something or you have more questions please just ask. I am not trying to start an arguement or take up anyone's time. I am just in a situation where I need to know what I can and cannot do.

Thanks again for your time and help.

Your daughter and the 4 siblings share maternal grandparents. Where are they and is there any chance that they could help facilitate some contact between your daughter and the siblings?

You said that something major changed with mom that caused you to get full custody and prevented mom temporarily from having any visitation at all. Is it possible that mom's move is due to a fear of that effecting her other children and that is why she is taking them out of state? Obviously if their father is in the state where mom is moving that does allows those 4 children more access to their father.

It is strange that mom does not want visitation with your daughter...unless she feels that would put her other 4 children at risk somehow. I am not suggesting that your daughter is a problem or anything like that...but if mom's perception is that your daughter somehow caused problems within her family, or put her at risk of losing her other children, that could explain mom's current behavior.

 

[Ohiogal]

There were alot of replies and info, so I will try to go through them and answer what I can.
LDiJ:
Quote
"I have reviewed your posting history and you have been trying to find reasons for the last 5 years to take full custody of your daughter. She should be 14-15 now. There was never anything in any of your posts to indicate that mom was unfit to the extent of requiring supervised visitation. So unless something major changed in the last couple of years there should be no reason why your child cannot travel out of state to visit her mother.

Therefore, if your daughter really is in pain because her mother and sisters are leaving, then why don't you take it back to court to get a long distance plan put into effect, so that your daughter can still spend some time with her mother and sisters?"

You are correct. I have been pursuing custody of my child for around 5 years. Since you read through my posts, I am sure you have read some of the conditions and problems we were having. Something major did change, major enough for the state to give me full custody and at first her Mom had no visitation rights. She now has the state minimum visitation. My daughter is really hurt at he fact that her Mother decided to uproot the family to move away. I cannot force her Mom to see her. She has decided that she does not wish to see her at this point making a long distance plan pointless.

Your answer about do I expect the Mom to drop off kids that are not mine for visitation does make sense to me. I did not think about this when I posted. It would be nice however if there was something I could do to keep the sisters in contact, that is all I am trying to do.

OhioGal:
Thank you for understanding the question and answering it...again.

To answer your questions:
Was mom married to the father(s) of the siblings when the children were born?
Yes she was but is now divorced.

Where are the father(s) of the siblings?
In the state that the Mother plans to move to.

How old are the siblings?
11,9,4,4

ProudParent:

You hit the nail on the head. I would be willing to consider a long distance plan. The Mother does not want this. I just was looking for a way to keep the sisters in contact when the Mother has no plans to do so.

I have had my daughter going to counseling before this situation and I will keep taking her. Thank you though for your consideration and worry about her well being.

If I missed something or you have more questions please just ask. I am not trying to start an arguement or take up anyone's time. I am just in a situation where I need to know what I can and cannot do.

Thanks again for your time and help.

Then she has no standing to sue if mom was married to the father of the children. Not according to the convoluted Ohio law and the way I read it. She might be able to come in under a third party.

 

[olikolik]

Your daughter and the 4 siblings share maternal grandparents. Where are they and is there any chance that they could help facilitate some contact between your daughter and the siblings?

You said that something major changed with mom that caused you to get full custody and prevented mom temporarily from having any visitation at all. Is it possible that mom's move is due to a fear of that effecting her other children and that is why she is taking them out of state? Obviously if their father is in the state where mom is moving that does allows those 4 children more access to their father.

It is strange that mom does not want visitation with your daughter...unless she feels that would put her other 4 children at risk somehow. I am not suggesting that your daughter is a problem or anything like that...but if mom's perception is that your daughter somehow caused problems within her family, or put her at risk of losing her other children, that could explain mom's current behavior.

I understand what you are saying. The reason she is giving my daughter for moving is that there are jobs in the state she is moving. Her ex husband is already there working and she plans to join him.

My daughter is a normal 14 year old. She carries good marks in school. Shis an active volunteer at the humane society as well as a local women's shelter. She organizes a clothing donation drive at school yearly to benefit the women's shelter. She does exhibit what I would consider normal 14 year old mood swings with the occasional tantrum. She is not a negative influence to her siblings.

It is a long story about her Mom and the reasons I believe she is doing this. Mainly I see it as a punishment for my daughter finally speaking out about things that were happening that should not of been. I do not think she was in danger of losing any of her other kids do to this case.

Thank you for the idea of setting up visits with the Grandmother. I will look into this, but my problem lies in the fact that the mother has no plans to return to Ohio. She is permanently moving and has stated that she does not plan on visiting or being around. I will however contact the Grandmother and see if she can arrange a meeting at some point. Thank you for that suggestion.

OhioGal:

Thank you for the answer again. I wish the circumstances would be more favorable but I guess they just are not. I appreciate the help you have provided with my past two questions.