Trouble with NC Parent

[Ohiogal]

Last fall son had some trouble with alcohol during Dad's parenting time.

Okay. That was during dad's parenting time> HOWEVER, dad is spending months away from home and hence not exercising his parenting time.

Son was grounded for a while and curtailed. I took him to counseling right away also.

Is he still in counseling?

Dad told son (and counselor in front of son) that son has no problem. He has sabotaged many efforts of mine to do counseling.

Really? How?

I was shocked to find out about this last party 5 months after the fact cause there were no signs of problems last spring. I never knew either that Dad told son to invite friends to the house when he was away. I always thought son was just taking advantage of the situation and that surprised me that he would use such poor judgement after last fall's incident with alcohol on his watch. He saw the son drunk at the time.

Again YOU bear responsibility for your lack of parenting. Dad is not home and your child is gone long enough to have a party and get drunk at dad's house. Somehow that becomes dad's problem because child has a key and you bear NO responsibility? Dad wasn't feeding the child alcohol. And even if he was allowing the child to drink at his house, that IS allowed if dad is there. It is legal in the state of Ohio. It surprises you that your son uses poor judgment? It shouldn't since he is a teenager and being a teenager is almost synonomous with lack of judgment. If this is DAD's lack of judgment you are referring to what about YOUR lack of judgment in not having a better idea of where YOUR child is. How is your child able to be at dad's for such lengths of time unsupervised if dad is traveling out of state and it is on YOUR watch?

I am surprised it would be considered trespassing to be in his driveway as per court order we are supposed to go to each other's house to pick up the children.

It is trespassing if you are there at other times other than the court order. And if dad is out of town then you are not allowed to be there. If your child is there while dad is out of town then that is YOUR parenting problem and not dad's.

Fair enough that I could have been stricter than I was at that time. But in all honesty it is hard when the other parent actively works to undermine my authority. I am actually the parent more likely to stick to my guns.

Seriously I am not seeing that in you:

I tell kids not to go there and they get very angry with me.

I took the key this summer from them and that caused anger towards me from the kids.

You are the parent that is concerned because your children are ANGRY with you for being a parent. WHO CARES if they are angry? Seriously. You are not laying down the law. You are using dad as an excuse why you can't parent. Why is junior still driving? He had a problem with alcohol in the past and he still is allowed to drive? WHY? Seriously. Why are you allowing him that freedom?

 

[Ohiogal]

The court order has all these paragraphs about cooperation, not undermining the other parent etc... When it comes to the safety of the kids (i.e. alcohol) I wish there was some legal help to enforce the order and make this easier for the kids to not have this constant back and forth stuff over things already settled with an order. I am sure that if there was a more united front on some things son would not have some of these problems. I know the worst thing for kids is this parental discord and the emotional difficulties that causes.

OhioGal - if I understand you - if harm came to another child by his party during my time - YES I am responsible legally. That is why it makes my job harder when Dad throws incentives his way. In the end it is still my problem and responsibility and that really weighs on me. You see I can forbid things but Dad can allow him to do what he wants during his parenting time. I wish there was something in Family Court with our court order that could curb some of Dad's drive to undermine me on things that really are an issue of child safety and maybe he can fightabout something else if he wants. I understand differences in parenting styles and respect it. But some things are influential on a child if they stand together. I wish there was a united front on alcohol, etc... important safety issues. It could have helped if for example we supported son in counseling and clear rules to curb opportunities.

Again, sorry for all the posts and my computer gliches today. Thanks for reading this.

HOW is dad exercising his parenting time IF he is out of town? Don't tell me you are allowing the children at his place every other weekend even though dad is not there because it is "dad's" time. Please say you are using more common sense than that.

 

[FinnSW]

I will take all comments into account. Have a good evening.

 

[Ohiogal]

OhioGal,

I won't respond to your comment as it isnt necessary. It's okay to attack me and it is okay for me to end this discussion. The facts are being twisted by you rather than clarified. I don't need any more advice and have a good evening.

What comment wasn't necessary? End this discussion if you choose. The questions you were being asked are relevant. You are not clarifying anything but quite frankly your posts are confusing. Dad is out of town for months at a time but yet he is to blame for your children's behavior of partying at his house and being at his home unattended because he gave a key and they are there unchaperoned. HOW? I didn't attack you but rather pointed out flaws -- dad is not around so he cannot be to blame. YOU need to step up and parent.

 

[Proserpina]

OhioGal,

I won't respond to your comment as it isnt necessary. It's okay to attack me and it is okay for me to end this discussion. The facts are being twisted by you rather than clarified. I don't need any more advice and have a good evening.

You've been asked questions that you're going to be asked by either your own or your husband's attorney, and very likely by a judge. If something is being misunderstood, could you clarify?

 

[FinnSW]

You've been asked questions that you're going to be asked by either your own or your husband's attorney, and very likely by a judge. If something is being misunderstood, could you clarify?

I think is was the comment about me having common sense and letting the kids at Dad's every other weekend. Dad's house is less than a mile away and it isn't hard for kids to buy liquor off a wino and sneak into an empty house to drink for a couple of hours and be home. And I will accept that on a few occasions I trusted the teen to be at one house and he and some friends snuck into Dad's empty house.

I will give this one more shot. And I do appreciate many of the comments in the text of what a judge or other attorney would say. And truly I have sat back to take inventory of myself. And I do realize it is hard to glean a situation from a few posts.

Son has had some issues with alcohol and poor judgement when Dad was in town and away. During his parenting time last fall (2008) for example our son was almost arrested for alcohol issues. It was very traumatic. I promised the police I would take him to counseling and I did. He was grounded for a long time by both of us in our own ways. His Dad told the counselor in front of the teen that there is no alcohol problem and did not support the effort. OK, but he knows that son has the temptation to get into trouble. The last big trouble with drugs and alcohol was at his house in 07 when he was out of town. So I want to eliminate any easy routes to party since teen had these "binge" type issues. So I ask ex to please not give them a key to the house when he is gone and he continues to and tells the kids to go ahead and bring their friends behind my back. In spring of 09 son had another drinking incident which I found about 2 weeks ago and was very surprised cause I saw no signs of trouble. I think most everyone knows here that divorce is rough and harder on kids when they get such different messages from parents. That is why I brought up the visitation schedule. I tell the kids we follow it and Dad invites them to spend extra time with him (like come over for a month). It undermines me in the sense the kids don't know who to believe. Yes I am with them more but they also are hungry for absent Dad's attention. It's sad that for the last two years I listen to the kids yelling at me that Dad just came back into town after a few months and they have a week with him per court order and not a month. Or for example this past spring he came back from out of town right at spring break with no notice and demanded the kids. I had spring break as holiday and told him he could have them the next week. He refused any extra time and told the kids I was selfish to have them for spring break when it is my holiday and he just shows up unannounced.

 

[Proserpina]

I think is was the comment about me having common sense and not letting the kids at Dad's every other weekend.

I will give this one more shot. And I do appreciate many of the comments in the text of what a judge or other attorney would say. And truly I have sat back to take inventory of myself.

Son has had some issues with alcohol and poor judgement when Dad was in town and away. During his parenting time last fall (2008) for example our son was almost arrested for alcohol issues. It was very traumatic. I promised the police I would take him to counseling and I did. He was grounded for a long time by both of us in our own ways. His Dad told the counselor in front of the teen that there is no alcohol problem and did not support the effort. OK, but he knows that son has the temptation to get into trouble. The last big trouble with drugs and alcohol was at his house in 07 when he was out of town.

You have the boys for the most part; with Dad being away for months at a time you really are the only steadily involved parent - which makes you (arguably) more at fault for the bad things than Dad.

Fault aside though what is it exactly you want to accomplish? What would you like to happen?

 

[FinnSW]

I want specifically to 1) see if in the court order Dad can be made to stop challenging the visitation schedule several times a year and upsetting the kids as to who is right. (I am a like a broken record that a court order is important to follow. Dad tells them it is an option). It would decrease the stress in going from one home to the other. 2)In the court order than when he is out of town he can't give the kids a key and invite friends to his empty when it is my parenting time. When he is in town I don't call the kids and tell them to do something different than what Dad says and would appreciate the same courtesy. And that is there something in family court to helo me out when two years of this goes by with no let up. It is hard on the kids and maybe he would back off if the court could have some intervention. I hate to see the kids confused or angry and stressed over and over again for issues that were settled in court two years ago (i.e. visitation). I imagine most of us here know something about how it is for kids of divorce and what can be done to at least make them the priority. Well and as far as the empty house I don't want the other parent to make available to the kids during my parenting time opportunities to get into teenage trouble. Is that clear or should I clarifiy further?

Aside from that I will certainly take inventory of what I need to do as a parent. Whether you believe it or not...I do. And thanks for listening

 

[Ohiogal]

I think is was the comment about me having common sense and letting the kids at Dad's every other weekend. Dad's house is less than a mile away and it isn't hard for kids to buy liquor off a wino and sneak into an empty house to drink for a couple of hours and be home.

It would be hard IF you were highly monitoring their interactions and checking up on them constantly.

And I will accept that on a few occasions I trusted the teen to be at one house and he and some friends snuck into Dad's empty house.

Why did it happen more than once? In other words, after the first time, he should have been grounded pretty much forever.

I will give this one more shot. And I do appreciate many of the comments in the text of what a judge or other attorney would say. And truly I have sat back to take inventory of myself. And I do realize it is hard to glean a situation from a few posts.

Actually not that difficult.

Son has had some issues with alcohol and poor judgement when Dad was in town and away. During his parenting time last fall (2008) for example our son was almost arrested for alcohol issues. It was very traumatic.

Maybe you should have allowed him to be arrested. Maybe you should call the police the next time he gets involved in alcohol and have him charged. Traumatic? Really? Time for it become more traumatic and him to suffer the consequences. You catch him drinking again, YOU call the police. Is he driving still? Does he have access to a vehicle? Does he still have his license?

I promised the police I would take him to counseling and I did. He was grounded for a long time by both of us in our own ways. His Dad told the counselor in front of the teen that there is no alcohol problem and did not support the effort.

Depends on the definition of problem.

OK, but he knows that son has the temptation to get into trouble.

As do you.

The last big trouble with drugs and alcohol was at his house in 07 when he was out of town.

2 years ago. Drugs entered the picture. What drugs? Why didn't you mention drugs before this? Dad was out of town. Guess who is primarily responsible for that situation? You. You should have called the police and let your delinquent be arrested.

So I want to eliminate any easy routes to party since teen had these "binge" type issues.

You mean CRIMINAL issues.

So I ask ex to please not give them a key to the house when he is gone and he continues to and tells the kids to go ahead and bring their friends behind my back.

He has a right to give them a key. Why haven't you refused to allow your children access? You know that they lie. YOu know that they have lied on more than one occasion. This is a problem> But it is a parenting problem -- YOURS.

In spring of 09 son had another drinking incident which I found about 2 weeks ago and was very surprised cause I saw no signs of trouble.

So basically from 07 to 09 he was drinking and you were oblivious. So what have you done about it?

I think most everyone knows here that divorce is rough and harder on kids when they get such different messages from parents.

DO NOT use divorce as an excuse as to why your teen is committing crimes. Seriously.

That is why I brought up the visitation schedule. I tell the kids we follow it and Dad invites them to spend extra time with him (like come over for a month).

Dad can issue invitations. YOU can stand firm and deal with it.

It undermines me in the sense the kids don't know who to believe.

That is YOUR issue however.

Yes I am with them more but they also are hungry for absent Dad's attention. It's sad that for the last two years I listen to the kids yelling at me that Dad just came back into town after a few months and they have a week with him per court order and not a month.

Sad for you but guess what? It is part of parenting. When children are told no they are likely to believe that you are mean. Stand your ground and PARENT.

Or for example this past spring he came back from out of town right at spring break with no notice and demanded the kids. I had spring break as holiday and told him he could have them the next week. He refused any extra time and told the kids I was selfish to have them for spring break when it is my holiday and he just shows up unannounced.

He is allowed to think you are selfish.

 

[Ohiogal]

I want specifically to 1) see if in the court order Dad can be made to stop challenging the visitation schedule several times a year and upsetting the kids as to who is right. (I am a like a broken record that a court order is important to follow. Dad tells them it is an option).

Dad is to blame for upsetting the children? Ummm the court is not going to order that dad is not allowed to upset the children anymore than they will order that YOU cannot upset the children. The court is NOT going to micromanage your parenting. if they had to then they would remove the children due to your lack of parenting ability.

It would decrease the stress in going from one home to the other.

Stress is always going to be present.

2)In the court order than when he is out of town he can't give the kids a key and invite friends to his empty when it is my parenting time.

Sorry but no. Is dad inviting the children's friends to his house when the children go to his place? He is out of town. He can give his children a key. Do they have a key to your home? This is also a parenting issue -- YOU need to make sure they are not inviting friends to a house for parties. Which means YOU have to step up your parenting. Dad is not to blame because during YOUR time your children are over at his house having keggers or pot parties. That is ON YOU. Even without a key if your children wanted into dad's house they would get into dad's house. Did you consider that? Seriously. Your teen has done drugs and alcohol. B&E would be nothing much to add to his repertoire.

When he is in town I don't call the kids and tell them to do something different than what Dad says and would appreciate the same courtesy.

Courtesy huh? YOu cannot legislate manners.

And that is there something in family court to helo me out when two years of this goes by with no let up. It is hard on the kids and maybe he would back off if the court could have some intervention. I hate to see the kids confused or angry and stressed over and over again for issues that were settled in court two years ago (i.e. visitation).

Children are allowed to be confused and angry and stressed. It is part of being children. You want your children happy all the time and if they were you would have even bigger issues. How about teaching your children about reality. Teach them there are consequences for their actions. NO cars. No driving. No hanging out with friends except at your house supervised. No video games. No books (except for school purposes). No free time without you looking over their shoulder until they can prove they can be trusted. If they drink again or do drugs again, YOU call the police immediately and let them be arrested. If you hadn't had bailed the teen out before you might have seen a huge difference. All you taught him at that point is that mom will cover me.

I imagine most of us here know something about how it is for kids of divorce and what can be done to at least make them the priority. Well and as far as the empty house I don't want the other parent to make available to the kids during my parenting time opportunities to get into teenage trouble. Is that clear or should I clarifiy further?

You don't get it. YOU can prohibit the home from being available if you are a stricter parent and make sure that your children do not have the opportunity to go to dad's. Which means you need to parent better/stricter/harsher.

Aside from that I will certainly take inventory of what I need to do as a parent. Whether you believe it or not...I do. And thanks for listening

Then make changes.

 

[cvj]

Actually not that difficult.

Actually, in your signature you claim "the devil is in the details."

Ohiogal, I understand that you are a senior member and an important member in this forum. I have no doubt you have extensive knowledge of family law. However, I do not understand how your personal attacks are designed to help someone.

FinnSW, don't take what is being said here too personally. It IS very hard to glean a situation from a couple of posts, and details ARE very important in the law. Ohiogal is right in one respect. It seems you must take a hard line with your kids and do EVERYTHING you can to monitor them. However, when they at risk of being arrested and you probably should let them be. Otherwise when they adults they will expect others to continually bail them out of trouble.

Also, please hire a lawyer and document EVERYTHING. I failed to do so in my case and am paying dearly for it now. Get into the facts/court/orders/logic of the case. The law doesn't care about how you feel. I am just learning this as well. It can be a hard blow to deal with as a mom.

Furthermore, I am going to get my CPA license soon. I cannot imagine that I will have the desire or time to post continuously in a public forum doling out free tax advice. Ohio gal supposedly works in seven different counties as a GAL and attorney. Something doesn't seem right there...

In fact, I am an astronaut. I am going to embark on a space mission soon, and I am going to post about it on a public forum from my rocketship. Don't question me. If I say I am an astronaut on a public forum, I am an astronaut!!!

In other words, we can pretend to be anything we want to be on a site like this. Take what you can from what people have to say here and leave the rest.

Good luck.

 

[Ohiogal]

Ohiogal, I understand that you are a senior member and an important member in this forum. I have no doubt you have extensive knowledge of family law. However, I do not understand how your personal attacks are designed to help someone.

FinnSW, don't take what is being said here too personally. It IS very hard to glean a situation from a couple of posts, and details ARE very important in the law. Ohiogal is right in one respect. It seems you must take a hard line with your kids and do EVERYTHING you can to monitor them. However, when they at risk of being arrested and you probably should let them be. Otherwise when they adults they will expect others to continually bail them out of trouble.

Also, please hire a lawyer and document EVERYTHING. I failed to do so in my case and am paying dearly for it now. Get into the facts/court/orders/logic of the case. The law doesn't care about how you feel. I am just learning this as well. It can be a hard blow to deal with as a mom.

Furthermore, I am going to get my CPA license soon. I cannot imagine that I will have the desire or time to post continuously in a public forum doling out free tax advice. Ohio gal supposedly works in seven different counties as a GAL and attorney. Something doesn't seem right there...

In fact, I am an astronaut. I am going to embark on a space mission soon, and I am going to post about it on a public forum from my rocketship. Don't question me. If I say I am an astronaut on a public forum, I am an astronaut!!!

In other words, we can pretend to be anything we want to be on a site like this. Take what you can from what people have to say here and leave the rest.

Good luck.

Except for the fact that I have been verified as an attorney by the moderators and administrators of this site. have fun on your rocketship.

 

[cvj]

Except for the fact that I have been verified as an attorney by the moderators and administrators of this site. have fun on your rocketship.

Ok, that is a good thing. Do you practice like you post? Do you get a broad overview of a case and jump to conclusions based on limited facts and personal presumptions? I hope not. An attorney must stick to FACTS. Not how they FEEL. You can think someone is the crappiest parent in the world, but they still have rights. Like a said before, the law doesn't care about how we feel. In fact, I think we could even agree on that fact.

I believe most people come on this forum feeling scared and looking for legal advice. They are truly not knowledgeable about what their rights are. I came here thinking that's what this site was for. Many people sincerely do try to help. You, however, don't.

I don't want to hijack your thread, finnSW. I sincerely hope you find out what you need to know.

By the way, I LOVE my rocketship! It's a blast!

 

[Ohiogal]

Ok, that is a good thing. Do you practice like you post? Do you get a broad overview of a case and jump to conclusions based on limited facts and personal presumptions? I hope not. An attorney must stick to FACTS. Not how they FEEL. You can think someone is the crappiest parent in the world, but they still have rights. Like a said before, the law doesn't care about how we feel. In fact, I think we could even agree on that fact.

I believe most people come on this forum feeling scared and looking for legal advice. They are truly not knowledgeable about what their rights are. I came here thinking that's what this site was for. Many people sincerely do try to help. You, however, don't.

I don't want to hijack your thread, finnSW. I sincerely hope you find out what you need to know.

By the way, I LOVE my rocketship! It's a blast!

I told her that what she has is NOT a legal issue -- it is parenting issue. A court is not going to micromanage her and dad's parenting. If it gets to the point that they have to do that then CSB will be brought in and the children removed until the parents are able to achieve the skills necessary to parent.

She is upset because the children are going to dad's when dad is not there and she wants to stop it -- well she can stop it by being a parent and riding herd on her children. If she cannot stop it that way then she needs to find other methods of dealing with her juvenile delinquents -- and yes children who do drugs, drink and don't listen to their parents ARE delinquents who are engaging in criminal activity. Those are ALL facts. Based on what she has said, she has parenting issues. You seem to expect that the court is going to step in and parent for her. They won't. They will however order that the state take control of the children.

 

[cvj]

I told her that what she has is NOT a legal issue -- it is parenting issue. A court is not going to micromanage her and dad's parenting. If it gets to the point that they have to do that then CSB will be brought in and the children removed until the parents are able to achieve the skills necessary to parent.

She is upset because the children are going to dad's when dad is not there and she wants to stop it -- well she can stop it by being a parent and riding herd on her children. If she cannot stop it that way then she needs to find other methods of dealing with her juvenile delinquents -- and yes children who do drugs, drink and don't listen to their parents ARE delinquents who are engaging in criminal activity. Those are ALL facts. Based on what she has said, she has parenting issues. You seem to expect that the court is going to step in and parent for her. They won't. They will however order that the state take control of the children.

Ohiogal, that was stated BEAUTIFULLY! I am being sincere! I think that's what she needs to know.

*Hey, if your children are doing this, they can be considered delinquent. From a legal standpoint, this is what you need to do and this is what could happen.*

The problem with what could be construed as "attacks" by some on a site like this is that they often won't come back. They most likely will not get the info they desperately need. I by no means think this should be a hand-holding party. I do believe that people should be able to get questions answered without feeling personally attacked.

If they come here, get told they are a crappy parent, then leave - I'm afraid that may harm rather than help their situation.