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Legal vs. Ethical...what to do?

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stepmom38

Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

I have been reading this forum for years and I have a question that's not so much legal, but more ethical. My husband is the NCP to two children with his ex wife. I understand that as the stepmom, I have no legal rights or responsibility regarding his children, which has a great deal to do with the question itself.

My husband pays the standard CS weekly, directly to mom via check as per what was written in the court order, which is 25% of gross, less FICA. This comes out to approx. $240/wk, which actually amounts to about 35% of his net take home salary. On top of that, he splits any additional expenses with his ex (co-pays, braces, dance, etc.) bringing his grand total to $312/week. This leaves him with about $388 per week for himself. Certainly not enough to support himself if he had to, but I understand that's the law and regardless of how unfair anyone thinks it is, that's the way it is and he understands that as well. As a result of this, I pay about 80% of the household bills because there's simply not enough left over from my husband's check to contribute anything substantial to our household. It barely covers half of our mortgage payment. Again...I understand that it's my choice to do this.

We are lucky enough to have a house with a finished basement and his children both have their own rooms there, complete with TV's, clothing / toys and basically whatever they have in their rooms at their moms house. I have provided them with all of this using my own money because I love them and I never wanted them to feel as though they were simply "visitors", but that they were an actual part of our household. I also am the one that pays for all the vacations we take them on, all of their birthday presents, Christmas presents, and all the little "extras" that come up when they are with us, which is currently every weekend from Friday nite to Sunday nite. Again...I understand that I have no obligation to do any of this, but I've done it all this time simply because I could.

I have been informed that I will be receiving a pay cut at work. What little savings I have will not last long. My husband works 60-70 hours a week as it is, so getting a 2nd job for him isn't an option and I would never insist he do that as then he would NEVER get to see his children. He would like to ask his ex if she would be willing to do a 50/50 physical custody arrangement where he would still pay her some CS to account for the difference in their salaries which is about $10K per year (I believe that comes out to about $70/week). Each would pay for their own expenses when they have the kids, and any additional big expenses would be split 50/50 between the two of them. He already has the kids two full days per week. He has a very good relationship with her and we all get along very well. We live close enough to one another that school wouldn't be an issue and he knows that she doesn't have to agree to anything but is hoping that she will agree to it to bring equality and fairness to both parents.

We have discussed the situation and my husband and I have come to the decision that if she doesn't agree to the 50/50 and insists on going by "the law", then we will abide by the law as well. We will be selling the house we currently live in and will purchase either a very small two bedroom or perhaps rent an apartment. We have a daughter together so she would occupy the 2nd bedroom. Everyone will lose, including his kids. They will no longer have their own rooms or any place to store their belongings. They will sleep on a pull-out couch in the living room and whatever fits in the bag that they transport back and forth between the houses will be all they keep at our house. I will also not be paying for them to go with us on vacations, nor will I continue to pay for birthdays, birthday parties, Christmas presents or any of those little "extras" they've become accustomed to at our house. Do we want to do this? No...of course not. I do not want to leave the home that I've worked so hard to get and I don't want our daughter to lose the home that she loves. However...as this very board is so quick to point out...all the extra things that his childen receive in our home are because I provided them. Something that I (the legal stranger) don't legally have to do, nor does my husband. His children are already afforded more rights than our daughter together (guaranteed support until they're 21, court ordered college education, etc.), which in my opinion, is absolutely wrong. Children of divorce are no more special than children of intact families and for the law to imply otherwise is unconstitutional and discriminatory. I know...my opinion doesn't matter, but I dare anyone to try to defend this and say it's right. ALL children matter. Not just children of divorce.

I would also like to add, that my husband's ex would not end up living on the street if her child support was reduced. She is married to a man that makes VERY good money and although I understand that it's not her husband's responsibility to financially provide for her children, it is also not MY responsibility to financially provide for her children.

Your thoughts and opinions please?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
 


Artemis_ofthe_Hunt

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New York

I have been reading this forum for years and I have a question that's not so much legal, but more ethical. My husband is the NCP to two children with his ex wife. I understand that as the stepmom, I have no legal rights or responsibility regarding his children, which has a great deal to do with the question itself.

My husband pays the standard CS weekly, directly to mom via check as per what was written in the court order, which is 25% of gross, less FICA. This comes out to approx. $240/wk, which actually amounts to about 35% of his net take home salary. On top of that, he splits any additional expenses with his ex (co-pays, braces, dance, etc.) bringing his grand total to $312/week. This leaves him with about $388 per week for himself. Certainly not enough to support himself if he had to, but I understand that's the law and regardless of how unfair anyone thinks it is, that's the way it is and he understands that as well. As a result of this, I pay about 80% of the household bills because there's simply not enough left over from my husband's check to contribute anything substantial to our household. It barely covers half of our mortgage payment. Again...I understand that it's my choice to do this.

We are lucky enough to have a house with a finished basement and his children both have their own rooms there, complete with TV's, clothing / toys and basically whatever they have in their rooms at their moms house. I have provided them with all of this using my own money because I love them and I never wanted them to feel as though they were simply "visitors", but that they were an actual part of our household. I also am the one that pays for all the vacations we take them on, all of their birthday presents, Christmas presents, and all the little "extras" that come up when they are with us, which is currently every weekend from Friday nite to Sunday nite. Again...I understand that I have no obligation to do any of this, but I've done it all this time simply because I could.

I have been informed that I will be receiving a pay cut at work. What little savings I have will not last long. My husband works 60-70 hours a week as it is, so getting a 2nd job for him isn't an option and I would never insist he do that as then he would NEVER get to see his children. He would like to ask his ex if she would be willing to do a 50/50 physical custody arrangement where he would still pay her some CS to account for the difference in their salaries which is about $10K per year (I believe that comes out to about $70/week). Each would pay for their own expenses when they have the kids, and any additional big expenses would be split 50/50 between the two of them. He already has the kids two full days per week. He has a very good relationship with her and we all get along very well. We live close enough to one another that school wouldn't be an issue and he knows that she doesn't have to agree to anything but is hoping that she will agree to it to bring equality and fairness to both parents.

We have discussed the situation and my husband and I have come to the decision that if she doesn't agree to the 50/50 and insists on going by "the law", then we will abide by the law as well. We will be selling the house we currently live in and will purchase either a very small two bedroom or perhaps rent an apartment. We have a daughter together so she would occupy the 2nd bedroom. Everyone will lose, including his kids. They will no longer have their own rooms or any place to store their belongings. They will sleep on a pull-out couch in the living room and whatever fits in the bag that they transport back and forth between the houses will be all they keep at our house. I will also not be paying for them to go with us on vacations, nor will I continue to pay for birthdays, birthday parties, Christmas presents or any of those little "extras" they've become accustomed to at our house. Do we want to do this? No...of course not. I do not want to leave the home that I've worked so hard to get and I don't want our daughter to lose the home that she loves. However...as this very board is so quick to point out...all the extra things that his childen receive in our home are because I provided them. Something that I (the legal stranger) don't legally have to do, nor does my husband. His children are already afforded more rights than our daughter together (guaranteed support until they're 21, court ordered college education, etc.), which in my opinion, is absolutely wrong. Children of divorce are no more special than children of intact families and for the law to imply otherwise is unconstitutional and discriminatory. I know...my opinion doesn't matter, but I dare anyone to try to defend this and say it's right. ALL children matter. Not just children of divorce.

I would also like to add, that my husband's ex would not end up living on the street if her child support was reduced. She is married to a man that makes VERY good money and although I understand that it's not her husband's responsibility to financially provide for her children, it is also not MY responsibility to financially provide for her children.

Your thoughts and opinions please?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
Well as far as this board is concerned, the bolded above is one of the very first things that is pointed out, so you're ahead of the game there. As far as anything else is concerned, how old is the CO? Have you looked into the state statutes concerning reviews? If the court order spells something out, coming to an agreement outside of that is neither legal or ethical, and both parties can get into big trouble if the matter is brought before the court for review at a later date anyway. My suggestion would be to first look to see if there is a stipulation within the court order regarding mandatory reviews. Then, if there is a stipulation and the timing is correct, petition for a review. At that point, the matter of 50/50 could be addressed. Until then, consider just cutting out the fat... no more treats (or very few) for any of the children to maintain the home that everyone is grounded in. At least in my area, now is not the time to sell a home! Good Luck!
 

stepmom38

Member
Thank you for your response. Of course he would never just change the court order with her on their own without having it made into a REAL order by the judge!!! He wants everyone's legal bases to be covered...especially his own!!

The last time his CS was changed was about three years ago. He took her for a downward mod because he had a decrease in income (he's a mechanic who gets paid by the job and is not on salary) of about $10K per year from when the original order was made. Neither has requested any sort of review since then and I'm guessing that since he pays her directly and it doesn't go through the state, that they wouldn't automatically do any sort of reviews on it (although I could be wrong). In the five years that we have been married, his income has actually gone down...probably about $15K total.

Are you saying that he could take her back to court to modify the custody agreement? It is my understanding that NY doesn't have any provisions for 50/50 joint physical custody on the books so even if he wanted to do that it wouldn't be possible. Wouldn't there need to be a substantial change of circumstances? His children LOVE to come to our house. They are very close with our daughter together...the two girls are practically inseparable while the kids are here. They even call me "Mom"...with the blessing of their real mom. She knows all I have done for them through the years and I do believe she appreciates it, however I also think (I know...not that it matters!) that her and her new husband have become very accustomed to that additional income and even though it would definitely be in the children's best interests to spend more time with their dad, I'm not so sure she would be willing to give up that $ to do that.

Does anyone know if he could indeed try for a custody modification? I just didn't think it was possible in this state, but it if is, please let me know and I'll tell my husband so he can decide what to do.
 

CJane

Senior Member
Your housepayment is more than 3000/month?????

Sorry, that right there just killed me.
 

stepmom38

Member
I know...it kills me too. We live in NY...Long Island to be specific. We bought at the peak of the real estate market. Our property taxes alone are over $6K per year for a 40x100 piece of property. Believe me when I say...we do NOT live in a big house. It's rather on the small side.
 

stepmom38

Member
Until then, consider just cutting out the fat... no more treats (or very few) for any of the children to maintain the home that everyone is grounded in.

Believe me...I have cut out the fat as much as I can. I clip coupons, I buy mostly storebrand items and have gotten our food bill down to about $75/week and that includes ALL of us. I can't remember the last time I purchased clothes for either myself or my husband. I did however, purchase a new outfit for our daughter the other day. At Walmart...a top for $4.00 and a pair of leggings for $3.50. Luckily she's only 3 1/2 and doesn't mind wearing a $7.50 outfit. My stepdaughter who is 12, insists on Hollister, Abercrombie, Aeropostale, etc. I trim and highlight my own hair and my husband hasn't had a haircut in 6 months...his friends at work call him "Jesus" :D I don't get manicures or pedicures. I don't buy anything unless it's on sale. I would say that I'm pretty frugal. I have no choice. The only thing I flat out refuse to stop paying for is the $120/month for our daughter's preschool. She just started and LOVES it. And as I stated before, her needs are of equal importance to the needs of my stepchildren.

I 100% believe in BOTH parents EQUALLY supporting their children, and I believe that both parents also should have equal access and time with their children. Unfortunately the law doesn't work that way. It places the NCP (whether they be man or woman) in the position that they're essentially a financial slave to the CP for as long as the CS order lasts. The courts create a very adversarial atmosphere...a kind of "winner takes all" mentality. I'm a parent and I know that if I were put in the position where all of a sudden I was considered to be less of a parent than my spouse, I would be very angry. I'm not so sure that the courts really DO consider what's in the best interests of the children if their opinion of that is to take one parent away and reduce them to visitor status. Sure...there are always going to be deadbeat parents of both genders, however to punish the parents that really want to do the right thing (and I believe that most of them do) is terrible. It's really quite shameful if you think about it.

So anyway...back to my previous question. Would it be possible for my husband to request that custody be modified to 50/50 even if his ex doesn't agree to it? Also...I understand that children don't get to choose who they live with, but if someone were to ask my stepkids if they wanted to spend equal amounts of time with mom AND dad, I'm 100% sure they would jump at the chance. Like I said...they call us during the week to tell us they can't wait to come back on the weekend. My husband's situation couldn't be more perfect for a 50/50 split. We live close and everyone gets along with one another great. The only obstacle I see to her agreeing to it is the money angle. It just doesn't seem fair that one parent has the ability to "control" the other parents time and money spent with/on the child. All my husband wants is an equal standing on all fronts with his ex...the way it should be. I would think that everyone would agree with that, yes?
 

Artemis_ofthe_Hunt

Senior Member
Until then, consider just cutting out the fat... no more treats (or very few) for any of the children to maintain the home that everyone is grounded in.

Believe me...I have cut out the fat as much as I can. I clip coupons, I buy mostly storebrand items and have gotten our food bill down to about $75/week and that includes ALL of us. I can't remember the last time I purchased clothes for either myself or my husband. I did however, purchase a new outfit for our daughter the other day. At Walmart...a top for $4.00 and a pair of leggings for $3.50. Luckily she's only 3 1/2 and doesn't mind wearing a $7.50 outfit. My stepdaughter who is 12, insists on Hollister, Abercrombie, Aeropostale, etc. I trim and highlight my own hair and my husband hasn't had a haircut in 6 months...his friends at work call him "Jesus" :D I don't get manicures or pedicures. I don't buy anything unless it's on sale. I would say that I'm pretty frugal. I have no choice. The only thing I flat out refuse to stop paying for is the $120/month for our daughter's preschool. She just started and LOVES it. And as I stated before, her needs are of equal importance to the needs of my stepchildren.
On this note, could I suggest that you look into ebay? I buy all of my little guys clothes in lots on ebay, I can get his whole seasons wardrobe for around $70 including shipping. He's two and a half and in 3T's... he grows so fast! It might help, you might look into the 12 year olds wardrobe the same way. She's going to have to learn about being frugal too... sounds like you've got the way of it though. Good Luck.:)
 

stepmom38

Member
Yes - one of the things my mom taught me was to be frugal!! I'll look into the Ebay thing...I never thought of that. Thanks for the suggestion. I also have zero problem doing that with the 12 year old, however her mom has the $ to buy her all those designer clothes (mom is very into the whole "popularity" thing) so she's now used to that. It's my hubby's responsibility to help pay for her clothing...yes. However...she doesn't NEED a designer wardrobe...she simply wants/expects one. She's not a bad kid...she's actually a GREAT kid (perhaps a bit spoiled) so I don't want it to sound like I want her to have less because that's not the case. Again...just looking for a little equality between the houses.

However...I STILL don't have an answer to my question about the custody modification. Does anyone know if my husband could try to modify their custody agreement into a 50/50 split without his ex's agreeing to it?

Thanks for your help in advance...I read this forum every day and it's a WEALTH of information.
 

Zephyr

Senior Member
I'm not sure he could force the issue if mom didn't agree, there's no stated change in circumstances and the driving motivator for the request is financial. If mom and dad agree they can certainly have a new parenting plan drawn up and submitted as a stipulation. If the judge sees no issue with it (and they usually don't unless something is waaaay off) then he signs it and that's the new order.
 

stepmom38

Member
Thank you both for your replies...that's kind of what I thought. Like I said...he has a good relationship with her, so he would ask her first regardless of whether she had to agree or not. I think that's the part that bothers him (and me even though I don't count!!). The fact that he's pretty much at her mercy with respect to his children and his finances. I will just NEVER EVER understand the sense or justice in that. And if that's the case then there really ISN'T any equality between them or any divorced couple with children is there? Unless otherwise agreed to...one person will always hold all the cards.

I guess this is one of the reasons why I believe so strongly in the concept of Shared Parenting. It should be the default judgement in all custody cases (with some exceptions of course). For all the people who complain that dads ONLY want 50/50 so they can lower their CS obligations, you could also say that moms ONLY want primary custody so they can receive CS. Besides...if what dad pays in CS is going towards the children's expenses in moms house, wouldn't it be fair to say that if the children were with him half of the time, that money would STILL be spent on the children...except it would be in his house, so I'm really not buying that argument. Unless moms are implying that they are the ONLY parent that is interested in or capable of doing the right thing for their children are the only ones that can be trusted to support them? I would think we've come farther than that as a society, but when I look at my husband's situation (and at all the other good dad's out there like him), I seriously have my doubts.

Thanks again for the info. He'll try talking to her. I'll try to keep you updated on the situation.
 
OP,
Just wanted to let you know that I completely hear where your coming from. I am also a stepmom. Dad has primary physical placement and Mom exercises about a total of 6 or 7 days of visitation per month. He still pays Mom $130/week due to the difference in their incomes. He works a factory job and she is a part-time cashier. What a joke....

I personally fund SD's sport of choice which is competive horse-riding and showing. The CO says Mom is to pay half. Haven't seen a dime in two years. If I were to lose my job or take a pay cut, SD's world would come to a screeching halt.

My advice to your husband would be to start asking for more parenting time here and there. Try to get as close to 50/50 as you can and keep it steady for six months or more. Then you have grounds to ask for 50/50 placement based on status quo.

Good luck and hang in there. It's a hard row.
 

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