alcohol, ids, bad day

[jamesb]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

My friend and I, both 19, were walking along the street with the beer that we'd just bought. We were both drinking out of cans at the time - not beer, but the cop driving past obviously thought it was. He stopped and came up to us, saw it wasn't beer, said he'd thought it was. Then he asked us for our ids for the beer we were carrying. I knew that my friend had a little bit of pot in his pocket so thinking it would be best to show him an id and go on our way I pulled out the fake one that we'd used to buy the beer. My friend did the same. Cop looked at them for aaaaaaaages. Then he asked us where we got them and if we had any real ones. Damn.

So then we pulled out the ones that say we're 19. Then he ends up finding the pot on my friend. We end up getting arrested.

So there's B&P 25662, PC 148.9 (is that for giving a cop a false id? I looked this up and the definition says something like false representation on arrest? we weren't arrested when we gave him them?)

But then there's B&P 25661 and then B&P 25658. Seems like overkill... They both seem to be about purchasing? Cop wasn't there when we bought beer, we were few blocks from the shop...what sort of proof do they need for that? We didn't tell him where we bought it. He asked us but I didn't think it would help us to tell him (do you think it would have helped if we told him? or would that just give him proof?).

Friend got possession too, for pot.

What could happen from all this? How would you fight these charges? We both have a couple of things on juvenile records, minor stuff....alcohol/pot...charges from being at parties that went a bit crazy. Nothing real bad. And I had another 25662 last year, couple of traffic things (they aren't on your record though right?).

 

[CdwJava]

So there's B&P 25662, PC 148.9 (is that for giving a cop a false id? I looked this up and the definition says something like false representation on arrest? we weren't arrested when we gave him them?)

The first is possession of alcohol. The second is false identification to a peace officer.

But then there's B&P 25661 and then B&P 25658. Seems like overkill...

More they can dismiss if you ask for a plea deal.

The first is providing false ID to buy alcohol, the second is purchasing alcohol while underage.

Cop wasn't there when we bought beer, we were few blocks from the shop...what sort of proof do they need for that? We didn't tell him where we bought it.

He may have seen you exit the store, you may have said where you bought it, or you may have been carrying it in a bag that the store distributes. It is not impossible.

Friend got possession too, for pot.

That's probably the LEAST of all the offenses.

What could happen from all this? How would you fight these charges?

Hire an attorney would be best. But, you face fines, community service, and alcohol counseling - your friend might also have the option of drug counseling. Jail IS a possibility, but not too likely.

We both have a couple of things on juvenile records, minor stuff....alcohol/pot...charges from being at parties that went a bit crazy.

That makes it more likely that jail time and/or alcohol counseling along with probation will be applied.

Sounds like you have a few problems ... alcohol, pot, parties ... time to grow up before this becomes a REAL problem.

- Carl

 

[jamesb]

The second is false identification to a peace officer.

So just false identification at any stage of dealing with a cop? I can't find the link again where I read about the 'false representation on arrest' thing... It made it sound like a more formal/booking kind of thing where you make a false statement...

More they can dismiss if you ask for a plea deal.

What do you mean? They load up the charges so they can dismiss insignificant stuff later without really losing much?

Smooth.

He may have seen you exit the store, you may have said where you bought it, or you may have been carrying it in a bag that the store distributes. It is not impossible.

He was driving towards us. It was like he saw us drinking and stopped because of that, he didn't say anything about seeing us leave the store. We didn't say anything about buying it, we didn't even admit that we'd just bought it. Maybe it angered him that we didn't want to chat. We were polite but we weren't going to tell him anything. And it was a pretty generic bag too. So what's left for him to prove that we used the IDs to buy alcohol or that we purchased it ourselves at all? He's not going to do a whole investigation of local stores for a couple of 19 year olds with some beer is he??

That's probably the LEAST of all the offenses.

So maybe we quit drinking for a few years and just smoke up.

That makes it more likely that jail time and/or alcohol counseling along with probation will be applied.

Jail? I'm not that much of a menace to society. What sort of length of jail/probation time?

Sounds like you have a few problems ... alcohol, pot, parties ... time to grow up before this becomes a REAL problem.

The problem is the cops showing up at the wrong time. Nothing different from what a huge amount of teenagers do. It's not like it's a huge juvenile record. Everything on there is from three nights, over about three years.

 

[shoman24v]

Don't think you will change and that age is an excuse. Odds are, if you're on this path it will stick with you.

People make mistakes, whether you learn from them or not is something else.

 

[dave33]

jamesb, It is common for police to charge you with everything possible for leverage. They do this to basically force a guilty plea on the remaining charges. You may disagree,I certainly do but this is the way the system works. An example would be to charge you with poss./w intent to deliver. It does not matter to them if it is obviously only poss. Than at the court proceeding the d.a. will agree to drop the intent if you plead guilty to poss. Ifeel it wrong on many levels,but again that's common practice. Also a lot of times jail isn't about being a menace,it's about breaking the law. It can be a completely arbitrary law and you will go to jail just the same. It seems this will not be an issue with you at this stage,but you're getting there.goodluck.

 

[jamesb]

Don't think you will change and that age is an excuse. Odds are, if you're on this path it will stick with you.

So...would you say you're a pessimist?....Of course people change. Already, I don't drink like I used to. Yeah, I did stupid stuff when I was 14-16. I haven't done anything stupid in a while (well....maybe actually days, it might have been smarter to just say we didn't have any ids on us). Just this time, and one time last year, I got caught with some beer. Not intoxicated, not causing problems anywhere. So yeah, people change.

If I'm on the path of enjoying a beer and a bit of a smoke with friends then that's fine by me.

 

[jamesb]

jamesb, It is common for police to charge you with everything possible for leverage. They do this to basically force a guilty plea on the remaining charges. You may disagree,I certainly do but this is the way the system works.

Yeah, I disagree too. That's a bit low. I'm wondering a bit why he bothered to do it too, the possession and the false identification ones are pretty solid...I can see why they'd do it to get a guilty plea if the 'real' charges were going to be hard to prove. ...I don't see much that I can argue about the possession and id so why bother with the purchase ones? I won't be pleading guilty to the purchase ones unless they've got some surveillance tape, the possession and id ones...I'll see what an attorney says but yeah, he pretty much got me on those.

It can be a completely arbitrary law and you will go to jail just the same.

And that's why we have the world's biggest population of prisoners....

It seems this will not be an issue with you at this stage,but you're getting there.

I don't know...in two years most of what I'm doing will be legal for me to do so...

 

[Adalaide78]

I don't know...in two years most of what I'm doing will be legal for me to do so...

Until then what you did is illegal. There will be consequences. The fact that eventually it will be legal for you do it isn't an excuse.

 

[CdwJava]

So just false identification at any stage of dealing with a cop? I can't find the link again where I read about the 'false representation on arrest' thing... It made it sound like a more formal/booking kind of thing where you make a false statement...

Not all that formal ...

148.9. (a) Any person who falsely represents or identifies himself
or herself as another person or as a fictitious person to any peace
officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, or subdivision (a) of
Section 830.33, upon a lawful detention or arrest of the person,
either to evade the process of the court, or to evade the proper
identification of the person by the investigating officer is guilty
of a misdemeanor.
(b) Any person who falsely represents or identifies himself or
herself as another person or as a fictitious person to any other
peace officer defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of
Title 3 of Part 2, upon lawful detention or arrest of the person,
either to evade the process of the court, or to evade the proper
identification of the person by the arresting officer is guilty of a
misdemeanor if (1) the false information is given while the peace
officer is engaged in the performance of his or her duties as a peace
officer and (2) the person providing the false information knows or
should have known that the person receiving the information is a
peace officer.​

What do you mean? They load up the charges so they can dismiss insignificant stuff later without really losing much?

The more they file, the more the DA has to plea down.

He was driving towards us. It was like he saw us drinking and stopped because of that, he didn't say anything about seeing us leave the store. We didn't say anything about buying it, we didn't even admit that we'd just bought it. Maybe it angered him that we didn't want to chat. We were polite but we weren't going to tell him anything. And it was a pretty generic bag too.

If you feel lucky, maybe you can go to trial and prevail on that charge. maybe the DA won;'t even file on that one. You will not know what charges you face until after you go to your arraignment.

He's not going to do a whole investigation of local stores for a couple of 19 year olds with some beer is he??

He might ask a couple of the nearby stores, yeah.

So maybe we quit drinking for a few years and just smoke up.

Better idea: Follow the law.

Jail? I'm not that much of a menace to society. What sort of length of jail/probation time?

That depends on which charges they stick you with. If consecutive sentences then you could face up to 6 months in jail and a variety of fines, probation, and lots of alcohol counseling - and likely probation conditions preventing you from possessing or consuming alcohol or even frequenting places that sell it, primarily.

The problem is the cops showing up at the wrong time. Nothing different from what a huge amount of teenagers do. It's not like it's a huge juvenile record. Everything on there is from three nights, over about three years.

It's enough. Considering that MOST people never have such a contact with the police, you have far more than most people your age. To the court that will be seen as a problem.

- Carl

 

[jamesb]

Until then what you did is illegal. There will be consequences. The fact that eventually it will be legal for you do it isn't an excuse.

I don't think that it is an excuse. I was saying that Dave's comment that I probably don't need to worry about jail at the moment but am getting there probably won't come true because I don't do a whole lot of illegal stuff these days. The pot, I'm smart about, I don't carry it around on me, I don't throw it in my car and drive around, I don't light up in public...

 

[dave33]

The problem with the purchase is that you will not know what evidence they have until you subpeona the discovery and by that time it will be to late for a deal with leniancy. You will go to court and they may offer you a deal, and say plead guilty today or face the max. Although they are required to turn over all evidence to the defendant, it never happens in a timely manner and almost always comes in bits and peices. That is another questionable tool that has become accepted practice. Basically you don't know what they have until it is to late. But, more than likely they charged you with the purchase to solidify a guilty plea on the other charges.They will likely drop it in exchange for a guilty plea.One more thing,this very well may not be relevant to you but everyone says "no more trouble" after they get into trouble. That usually holds true until they get caught again. It's a lifestyle and is frequently harder to change than most people think. It was more than this one instance that got you into this situation. Absolutely do not mean to preach. goodluck.

 

[jamesb]

148.9. (a) Any person who falsely represents or identifies himself
or herself as another person or as a fictitious person to any peace
officer listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2, or subdivision (a) of
Section 830.33, upon a lawful detention or arrest of the person,​

Is detention the same as being detained?

If you feel lucky, maybe you can go to trial and prevail on that charge. maybe the DA won;'t even file on that one. You will not know what charges you face until after you go to your arraignment.

When you say 'that charge' do you mean both of B&P 25661 and B&P 25658. Or do you mean the purchase with false id one? Would purchase by underage be easier to prove with just beer in a bag?

He might ask a couple of the nearby stores, yeah.

Oh yeah..

Better idea: Follow the law.

I was being half-sarcastic...

If consecutive sentences then you could face up to 6 months in jail and a variety of fines, probation, and lots of alcohol counseling - and likely probation conditions preventing you from possessing or consuming alcohol or even frequenting places that sell it, primarily.

Oh.

Maybe I will follow the law.

Probation for like a year? What is alcohol counseling anyway? AA? Do they throw in drug testing too? (I ask out of curiosity, not from addiction, I CAN pass drug tests when I need to)

It's enough. Considering that MOST people never have such a contact with the police, you have far more than most people your age. To the court that will be seen as a problem.

Yeah?....I guess my circle of friends mess with my perspective on that...

WILL be a problem....They're gonna care about stuff I did 5 years ago?

(yeah, now that I think about it for a moment, it is the 5th contact, and the 2 free trips in a cop car before the first one....that is a lot, maybe I have been smoking too much)

(oh. and the traffic violations...)

 

[jamesb]

The problem with the purchase is that you will not know what evidence they have until you subpeona the discovery and by that time it will be to late for a deal with leniancy. You will go to court and they may offer you a deal, and say plead guilty today or face the max. Although they are required to turn over all evidence to the defendant, it never happens in a timely manner and almost always comes in bits and peices.

Okay. Well that sucks. So I could go say not guilty and they could turn around and say "well, we have the person who sold it to you".

But, more than likely they charged you with the purchase to solidify a guilty plea on the other charges.They will likely drop it in exchange for a guilty plea.

Thanks for explaining things.

One more thing,this very well may not be relevant to you but everyone says "no more trouble" after they get into trouble. That usually holds true until they get caught again. It's a lifestyle and is frequently harder to change than most people think. It was more than this one instance that got you into this situation. Absolutely do not mean to preach. goodluck.

Mmmm yeah, I've never said "no more trouble" Never really been in huge trouble, it's been easy to not take it too seriously... been in a cell for like 5 minutes. Yeah, it's not a one-off...and yeah, I could catch another possession charge...I haven't really been forced to change much of my lifestyle yet...haven't felt like it either(not really interested in going to jail though...), my last MIP charge was nothing scary.

I don't see any preaching.

 

[CdwJava]

Is detention the same as being detained?

Yes.

When you say 'that charge' do you mean both of B&P 25661 and B&P 25658. Or do you mean the purchase with false id one? Would purchase by underage be easier to prove with just beer in a bag?

On the purchase charge ... maybe both. It rewally depends on what the state can prove. Not knowing what the report might say, who knows?

Probation for like a year? What is alcohol counseling anyway? AA? Do they throw in drug testing too? (I ask out of curiosity, not from addiction, I CAN pass drug tests when I need to)

Try, a few years. You would also be subject to search and test, counseling for at least a year, and they might throw in drug testing ... hard to pass marijuana drug tests given that the metabolytes stay in the system for 30-45 days.

Yeah?....I guess my circle of friends mess with my perspective on that...

Apparently so. Maybe your circle of friends is part of the problem. Better choices would be a good start.

WILL be a problem....They're gonna care about stuff I did 5 years ago?

They might, yes. It shows an ongoing pattern of behavior.


- Carl

 

[jamesb]

Try, a few years. You would also be subject to search and test, counseling for at least a year, and they might throw in drug testing ... hard to pass marijuana drug tests given that the metabolytes stay in the system for 30-45 days.

Really, years? Man. For some beers...? That's not cool. 'Search and test' of what? Alcohol? Yeah, it stays in your system. But it's something I choose to do to chill with friends. Not an every day thing. Tempting? Yeah probably. Worth it? Probably not.

Maybe your circle of friends is part of the problem.

Part of the problem...part of the fun.

They might, yes. It shows an ongoing pattern of behavior.

Even things completely unrelated? Although, well...2 of the 3 juvenile things were to do with parties and alcohol/pot (3/4 years ago)...first 1 was completely unrelated.