Overnights with newborn

[Nicaho]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana


My girlfriend left me at four months pregnant for another man. I have still stayed in contact and have attended ultrasounds and some doctor visits. I will be at the birth of my child along with the new boyfriend. Not thrilled about it but I know it is her decision. My biggest concern is parenting time. I have read so much on it and I'm still as lost as when I started! I found the state guidelines for Indiana. I discussed with the mother that we follow these and not go to court. I have read that it is in my best interest to get whatever we agree upon in writing and at least get into the court system. However, when I mentioned even the minimum of 3 days a week, she got upset and said, "well we can do 2 for sure." So first question is...if I take her to court will I get at least the three days? The second question is when do I get overnights? I have read the guidelines but I don't completely understand the rule and commentary. So am I looking at three years before I get my first overnight or does a certain time frame have to happen in visitations to be considered regular hands on care? For example, I attend every scheduled visitation for the first 3 or so months. Any help would be appreciated and I will provide any other information if needed.

I have attached the Overnight Rule 1 in the Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines:
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1. Overnight Parenting Time. Unless it can be demonstrated that the non-custodial parent has not had regular care responsibilities for the child, parenting time shall include overnights. If the non-custodial parent has not previously exercised regular care responsibilities for the child, then parenting time shall not include overnights prior to the child’s third birthday, except as provided below.



Commentary

Overnight contact between parents and very young children can provide opportunities for them to grow as a family. At the same time, when very young children experience sudden changes in their night time care routines, especially when these changes include separation from the usual caretaker, they can become frightened and unhappy. Under these circumstances, they may find it difficult to relax and thrive, even when offered excellent care.



When a very young child is accustomed to receiving regular, hands-on care from both parents, the child should continue to receive this care when the parents separate. Regardless of custodial status, a parent who has regularly cared for the child prior to separation should be encouraged to exercise overnight parenting time. When a parent has not provided regular hands-on care for the child prior to separation, overnight parenting time is not recommended until the parent and the child have developed a predictable and comfortable daytime care taking routine.

 

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Indiana


My girlfriend left me at four months pregnant for another man. I have still stayed in contact and have attended ultrasounds and some doctor visits. I will be at the birth of my child along with the new boyfriend. Not thrilled about it but I know it is her decision. My biggest concern is parenting time. I have read so much on it and I'm still as lost as when I started! I found the state guidelines for Indiana. I discussed with the mother that we follow these and not go to court. I have read that it is in my best interest to get whatever we agree upon in writing and at least get into the court system. However, when I mentioned even the minimum of 3 days a week, she got upset and said, "well we can do 2 for sure." So first question is...if I take her to court will I get at least the three days? The second question is when do I get overnights? I have read the guidelines but I don't completely understand the rule and commentary. So am I looking at three years before I get my first overnight or does a certain time frame have to happen in visitations to be considered regular hands on care? For example, I attend every scheduled visitation for the first 3 or so months. Any help would be appreciated and I will provide any other information if needed.

I have attached the Overnight Rule 1 in the Indiana Parenting Time Guidelines:
------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Overnight Parenting Time. Unless it can be demonstrated that the non-custodial parent has not had regular care responsibilities for the child, parenting time shall include overnights. If the non-custodial parent has not previously exercised regular care responsibilities for the child, then parenting time shall not include overnights prior to the child’s third birthday, except as provided below.



Commentary

Overnight contact between parents and very young children can provide opportunities for them to grow as a family. At the same time, when very young children experience sudden changes in their night time care routines, especially when these changes include separation from the usual caretaker, they can become frightened and unhappy. Under these circumstances, they may find it difficult to relax and thrive, even when offered excellent care.



When a very young child is accustomed to receiving regular, hands-on care from both parents, the child should continue to receive this care when the parents separate. Regardless of custodial status, a parent who has regularly cared for the child prior to separation should be encouraged to exercise overnight parenting time. When a parent has not provided regular hands-on care for the child prior to separation, overnight parenting time is not recommended until the parent and the child have developed a predictable and comfortable daytime care taking routine.

Read further:

2. Parenting Time In Early Infancy (Birth through Age 9 Months)



(A) Birth through Age 4 Months:



(1) Three (3) non-consecutive “days” per week of two (2) hours in length.



(2) All scheduled holidays of two (2) hours in length.



(3) Overnight if appropriate under Rule 1 above but not to exceed one (1) 24 hour period per week

You need to point out to Mom that "days" does NOT refer to full days - that may be enough reassurance for her not to fight one overnight per week. What it would appear to be saying is that you would have 3 days per week where you visit with the child for a couple of hours on each of those days.

It's unlikely that the court will order overnights from the beginning, but if you and Mom can come to an agreement you can absolutely file a stipulation with the court so the judge can sign off on it (assuming it's reasonable).

Here is the link to the Indiana standard parenting guidelines in its entirety if you don't already have it:

Order Adopting Parenting Time Guidelines

Frankly I think it is critical that you do get this all done through the court system - it protects all three of you and both parents know where they stand.

 

[Nicaho]

Read further:



You need to point out to Mom that "days" does NOT refer to full days - that may be enough reassurance for her not to fight one overnight per week. What it would appear to be saying is that you would have 3 days per week where you visit with the child for a couple of hours on each of those days.

She is aware that each day refers to 2-3 hours. I don't think that I can discuss the visitation with her reasonably. She started crying and the last thing I want to do is stress her out. Not my intentions at all but boy, am I stressed out! I think the biggest issue is me interfering with the time she has with her new man. Another big issue I have is that I'm pretty sure she will refer to her new boyfriend as "dad" to my daughter. I was "dad" to her 2 year old son within the first couple months of the nine month relationship. Her son called the new boyfriend dad within weeks of leaving me. I know it was wrong for me to do but I didn't know better at the time. The mother sees nothing wrong with this. Maybe this should have been a topic for another thread and sorry if I got off track.

 

[Proserpina]

She is aware that each day refers to 2-3 hours. I don't think that I can discuss the visitation with her reasonably. She started crying and the last thing I want to do is stress her out. Not my intentions at all but boy, am I stressed out! I think the biggest issue is me interfering with the time she has with her new man. Another big issue I have is that I'm pretty sure she will refer to her new boyfriend as "dad" to my daughter. I was "dad" to her 2 year old son within the first couple months of the nine month relationship. Her son called the new boyfriend dad within weeks of leaving me. I know it was wrong for me to do but I didn't know better at the time. The mother sees nothing wrong with this. Maybe this should have been a topic for another thread and sorry if I got off track.

Well, there's nothing you can do at this point until the baby is born and paternity is established. Indiana also has a Putative Father Registry (call the dept of health (317) 233-1325 to request the form) if you feel that you need to be proactive though I'm not entirely sure if that would actually be helpful or not. Can't hurt to give 'em a call, though.

Again though (and I can't emphasize this strongly enough), you need to do this via the courts whether Mom likes it or not. It's honestly the only way both of you can be sure your parental rights are protected.

 

[Nevergrowup]

I commend you for being proactive, and I also really applaud you for recognizing that you should not upset mom or stress her out, because that stresses your baby, so good job! Arm yourself with knowledge, that is your best preparation, and don't push her too much about visitation or you will find yourself right out of the birthing room. Any pregnant woman is going to have a hard time with giving up significant time with her newborn, right or wrong, so you would be smart to just be patient now.

I also want to suggest a DNA test. Seriously. She had a two year old that called you dad, calls another guy dad now, and, well, she moves on quickly. Are you POSITIVE the baby is yours? You better make sure, or you will be in for an 18-21 year expense that might not really be yours to shoulder.

When you file for paternity to be established, just ask for a DNA test. Better safe than sorry.

 

[mommyof4]

I also want to suggest a DNA test. Seriously. She had a two year old that called you dad, calls another guy dad now, and, well, she moves on quickly. Are you POSITIVE the baby is yours? You better make sure, or you will be in for an 18-21 year expense that might not really be yours to shoulder.

When you file for paternity to be established, just ask for a DNA test. Better safe than sorry.

Just wanted to re-emphasize this veryveryveryveryveryveryvery important point.

OP, you can't afford NOT to get a DNA test. Seriously.

 

[Nicaho]

I also want to suggest a DNA test. Seriously. She had a two year old that called you dad, calls another guy dad now, and, well, she moves on quickly. Are you POSITIVE the baby is yours? You better make sure, or you will be in for an 18-21 year expense that might not really be yours to shoulder.

When you file for paternity to be established, just ask for a DNA test. Better safe than sorry.

I plan on getting the DNA test. I am pretty positive the baby is mine but I realize there is always a possibility.

 

[CJane]

Your best and ONLY "safe" bet, once paternity is established, is to file for visitation/custody/etc.

Indiana sticks to those guidelines almost 100% absent an agreement by the parents, and because by the time you get to court, you will NOT have "previously provided daily hands on care" - you will NOT get overnights per the guidelines.

You WILL get 3 non-consec 2 hour visits/week.

Everything else is irrelevant.

 

[Nicaho]

Your best and ONLY "safe" bet, once paternity is established, is to file for visitation/custody/etc.

Indiana sticks to those guidelines almost 100% absent an agreement by the parents, and because by the time you get to court, you will NOT have "previously provided daily hands on care" - you will NOT get overnights per the guidelines.

You WILL get 3 non-consec 2 hour visits/week.

Everything else is irrelevant.

So best case scenario is that I get my daughter over nights at 3 years? It's sad but at least I will get to see her often. I have asked the mother if I can stay the night at the hospital the day the baby is born. For whatever reason, in my head even before the pregnancy, I always imagined bringing my child home and having that first night. I asked if the new boyfriend not be there and give me this one night. It's possible but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Thanks for all the help so far!

 

[Proserpina]

So best case scenario is that I get my daughter over nights at 3 years? It's sad but at least I will get to see her often. I have asked the mother if I can stay the night at the hospital the day the baby is born. For whatever reason, in my head even before the pregnancy, I always imagined bringing my child home and having that first night. I asked if the new boyfriend not be there and give me this one night. It's possible but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Thanks for all the help so far!

Honestly? You're putting the cart way before the horse here. At the moment you don't even have the right to be told when she gives birth let alone be there at the hospital.

And no, that's not what was said You won't start out with overnights but if you keep to a regular, court-ordered visitation schedule there's a good chance you can get overnights before the three year point.

 

[LdiJ]

Your best and ONLY "safe" bet, once paternity is established, is to file for visitation/custody/etc.

Indiana sticks to those guidelines almost 100% absent an agreement by the parents, and because by the time you get to court, you will NOT have "previously provided daily hands on care" - you will NOT get overnights per the guidelines.

You WILL get 3 non-consec 2 hour visits/week.

Everything else is irrelevant.

I agree, however if he looks more closely at the guidelines, he will see that at 19 months overnights could begin if he has faithfully exercised his visitation. Its not limited to age 3 as he previously indicated.

 

[CJane]

I have asked the mother if I can stay the night at the hospital the day the baby is born. For whatever reason, in my head even before the pregnancy, I always imagined bringing my child home and having that first night. I asked if the new boyfriend not be there and give me this one night. It's possible but I'm not getting my hopes up.

Thanks for all the help so far!

Ummm... sorry, but that's just weird.

Firstly, not (technically) your kid.

Secondly, you'd be spending the night with MOM. And you're not together, and she's with someone else. So Eeewww.

Thirdly, a newborn honestly isn't going to know if you're there or not. So this is about YOU and YOU do not matter (technically).

You're probably creeping Mom out big time.

 

[LdiJ]

Ummm... sorry, but that's just weird.

Firstly, not (technically) your kid.

Secondly, you'd be spending the night with MOM. And you're not together, and she's with someone else. So Eeewww.

Thirdly, a newborn honestly isn't going to know if you're there or not. So this is about YOU and YOU do not matter (technically).

You're probably creeping Mom out big time.

That sounds quite wierd to me too...and ditto on the creeping out.

 

[Nicaho]

Honestly? You're putting the cart way before the horse here. At the moment you don't even have the right to be told when she gives birth let alone be there at the hospital.

I know I do not have that right. I stated that I asked, knowing she is free to say no. Is it wrong for me to want to stay the night at the hospital? *(Edit...I guess so! That is why I am here to get opinions and make a better decision)* We are both trying to be civil with everything. She will tell me if anything is wrong and calls after routine doctor visits to update. Just last week she called when she hadn't felt the baby move all day. I met them at the hospital. Everything was fine She wants me to be in our daughters life. She wants me at the delivery. The only problem that I have with her is how often I get to see the baby after she is born and I know that is easily taken care of in court. I have recently enrolled in parenting classes. I know that I have much to learn with that and with all this legal stuff!

 

[Proserpina]

That sounds quite wierd to me too...and ditto on the creeping out.

Remind you of anyone? Turning up at the hospital...etc., etc.