?s about police questions/searches

[sullyer]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? CA

1. Am I right in thinking that the only questions you have to answer a cop are general things, name, address, age? Not where have you been/where did you come from? (as in where are the drunk teenagers coming from so we can go raid the party?)

2. Can cops search car and persons if they are detaining one passenger for MIP? Cop said he suspected there was alcohol in the car - and then also said it smelt like pot. bs it smelt like pot. Then he just searched it, not from seeing something that was lying around or anything like that, just cos he wanted to. (originally pulled over for speeding) My friend that they were taking for MIP didn't actually have alcohol on him by the way, he was just drunk.

3. What info can cops see when they go back to their little machines in their cars? Do they find out about past charges? (even if they're dismissed?) This cop's attitude even made me wonder if there was a little * beside my name that said the kid's a smart ass.

4. If you are arrested and you have a cellphone can they look at the contents of your phone? Messages or anything? This didn't happen, I'm just curious. If he had looked, the address of where we'd come from would have been real simple to find.

He seemed really annoyed that I wouldn't tell him where he could find kids drinking (my friend and I are both 17). I just wasn't answering the questions, my friend was just saying "i dunno". It was like he was determined to get me for something other than speeding when I don't feel like I did anything wrong in how I was acting with him. I was smart to a cop a few months ago so maybe he's his buddy and my name rang a bell...

 

[CdwJava]

1. Am I right in thinking that the only questions you have to answer a cop are general things, name, address, age? Not where have you been/where did you come from? (as in where are the drunk teenagers coming from so we can go raid the party?)

Unless you have been arrested or are subject to citation, you really do no have to give any information to an officer in CA. If subject to citation, yes, identifying info such as age, address, full name, etc. will generally be required. Other questions would be up to you.

2. Can cops search car and persons if they are detaining one passenger for MIP?

Sometimes. it depends on the circumstances. But, if one kid has alcohol in the car, then it is no great leap of deduction to conclude that they all had access to it and there might be more in the car.

Cop said he suspected there was alcohol in the car - and then also said it smelt like pot.

The probable cause to justify a search of the vehicle is based upon the totality of the circumstances.

remember, the odor of alcohol and especially marijuana can be very distinctive and can linger on people. If anyone in the car had recently been drinking, had alcohol spilled on them, or been around anyone smoking pot in the last few days, it could very easily have smelled like pot.

My friend that they were taking for MIP didn't actually have alcohol on him by the way, he was just drunk.

Then they took him for drunk in public, right? There are a few counties that still charge for a minor in possession if the minor has consumed alcohol, but those counties are few.

But, if they had him for being drunk, it can be inferred that more alcohol was present. Whether a court would see that as sufficient probable cause to search the vehicle is something we cannot say.

3. What info can cops see when they go back to their little machines in their cars? Do they find out about past charges? (even if they're dismissed?)

Impossible to answer. It might be that they see nothing, it might be that between the computer, a cell phone, and a radio they can get your whole life story. There is no one, single system out there. Unlike television and shows like CSI there is not some all omniscient program we have in our computers. A person's history is held in several - maybe a dozen or more - databases that could include departmental records, county records, state records, and federal databases.

This cop's attitude even made me wonder if there was a little * beside my name that said the kid's a smart ass.

It could be you have a reputation. A person's name can get around if they are a problem. And, if he had a local record system connected to his car's computer, perhaps he was able to look up previous reports or contacts and determined for himself that you were a pain.

4. If you are arrested and you have a cellphone can they look at the contents of your phone? Messages or anything?

It IS possible in CA, yes. Not under every circumstance, though.

 

[sullyer]

If subject to citation, yes, identifying info such as age, address, full name, etc. will generally be required. Other questions would be up to you.

I thought so. So he was just plain annoyed that I didn't want to answer his questions. He tried a few ways, said something about 'co-operating being a wise idea', I just shrugged my shoulders. Then he started his search rampage. That kinda pissed me off.

Sometimes. it depends on the circumstances. But, if one kid has alcohol in the car, then it is no great leap of deduction to conclude that they all had access to it and there might be more in the car.

Yeah, see he had none. From my point of view, all that the cop could tell was he'd had access to alcohol sometime that night, there was nothing to say he'd been drinking in my car. There was nothing lying around. It seems like it should have been a search where he'd have to ask to look instead of just doing it...and that he said "smells like pot" so if he found something he could say that was why he was seaerching to start with.

The probable cause to justify a search of the vehicle is based upon the totality of the circumstances.

That's poetry. It's beautiful. My opinion, there was no 'totality', just one kid who'd been drinking...nothing else to add together...

remember, the odor of alcohol and especially marijuana can be very distinctive and can linger on people. If anyone in the car had recently been drinking, had alcohol spilled on them, or been around anyone smoking pot in the last few days, it could very easily have smelled like pot.

I agree that my car would have smelt like alcohol from my friend. I didn't notice any smell of pot on him, I wasn't around any to pick it up at the party. It was just us, I hadn't had anyone else in the car that night. And I say bs because I'd had my mom in my car about 3 hours before...she kinda would of mentioned that (I know, she's said so before). And she doesn't have a cold either incase you're going to ask. I told her about this and she actually got in my car (this was the next morning, so hours later) and said she couldn't smell anything. (and then she said HAVE YOU??? noooo) She doesn't think they had the right to search...

Then they took him for drunk in public, right? There are a few counties that still charge for a minor in possession if the minor has consumed alcohol, but those counties are few.

I don't know. Maybe. Don't you have to be doing something to be drunk in public, or be really drunk? And in public? What happened was he's been on medication and had a few beers and wasn't feeling good, I was taking him home. he wasn't falling over drunk or doing anything, but you could tell when he talked and when he was leaning on my car, his balance wasn't good. How's he in public?, is that some cop trick, "step out of the car please......and...nooooow you're drunk in public".

I assumed MIP because I got an MIP about 4 months ago when I didn't have any alcohol on me, I wasn't drunk either. Just a smart ass. It got dismissed, maybe his will too. Maybe the cops around here just like paperwork.

Whether a court would see that as sufficient probable cause to search the vehicle is something we cannot say.

Would a bad search have any effect on the speeding ticket? He didn't find anything in the search, I knew he wouldn't, I'm asking about it because I don't think he had the right. The speeding ticket was right...I wasn't planning on arguing about it. I was speeding, at about the speed he said so..yeah..

Impossible to answer. It might be that they see nothing, it might be that between the computer, a cell phone, and a radio they can get your whole life story. There is no one, single system out there.

ok. I was just curious because his attitude seemed to change a bit from when he took my license to his car and came back.

Unlike television and shows like CSI there is not some all omniscient program we have in our computers.

....are you saying there's not actually virtual autopsies either?

It could be you have a reputation. A person's name can get around if they are a problem. And, if he had a local record system connected to his car's computer, perhaps he was able to look up previous reports or contacts and determined for himself that you were a pain.

Damn. Just once.

 

[CdwJava]

That's poetry. It's beautiful. My opinion, there was no 'totality', just one kid who'd been drinking...nothing else to add together...

I agree that my car would have smelt like alcohol from my friend.

That odor of alcohol alone in a car with underage subjects would likely be sufficient to compel a search for alcohol. It would seem that the officer had his probable cause right there.

She doesn't think they had the right to search...

Unfortunately for you, her opinion doesn't count.

Don't you have to be doing something to be drunk in public, or be really drunk? And in public?

That depends on the charge, and his age. if he was under 18 and inebriated, there are sections of the Welfare and Institutions Code that would permit the police to take him into custody for hi own protection to turn him over to parents or other authorities.

And public intoxication would only require he have consumed alcohol and be unable to care for himself or others. if he was slurring his speech, passing out, puking, arguing, etc., that could qualify. And he WAS in public - you and your car were in public. The only place you are allowed to be drunk is in a private residence. Any place else is generally going to be "in public."

In any event, the odor of alcohol would likely have been perfectly sufficient to search the car for more.

Would a bad search have any effect on the speeding ticket?

No. He did not find any unsafe speed in the search, he observed that prior to the contact I imagine.

....are you saying there's not actually virtual autopsies either?

I suppose there are, I have just never known of one.

The TECHNOLOGY they use is real, just the application of it is a little ... uh .. far-fetched, quick, and far too pretty. We do NOT have rotating 3-dimensional busts of the person being run on our computer, a history of all their jobs and acquaintances, family members, and last time they made a phone call. Can that information be obtained, and can it be on a local system? Sure. If the person has been contacted enough times and people fill out all the info and dutifully input the data, but ... come on!!!

I like CSI, but I have to suspend knowledge and belief when I watch it for a host of reasons.

 

[sullyer]

Unfortunately for you, her opinion doesn't count.

Yeah well I'll leave it up to you to tell her that. I tried telling her something like that before and she wasn't real impressed.

And public intoxication would only require he have consumed alcohol and be unable to care for himself or others.

Alright.

if he was slurring his speech,

Alright.

The only place you are allowed to be drunk is in a private residence

So if we'd stayed at the party he wouldn't have gotten any MIP (if he didn't have any on him, he'd stopped by the time I got there) or drunk in public? Just picked up and taken home or something? That sucks. I was just trying to do the right thing for him, he kind of wanted to go home and we thought he'd be better with sober parents (they're not the kinds to kill him over this) than drunk kids...

If it was drunk in public is that something that also has the whole license suspension going on, like you can get for MIP? I'd feel real bad about speeding and getting cops attention then...

And he WAS in public - you and your car were in public.

Alright.

In any event, the odor of alcohol would likely have been perfectly sufficient to search the car for more.

Alright. You win mr cop. Thanks (for pulling my argument to bits).

No. He did not find any unsafe speed in the search, he observed that prior to the contact I imagine.

mmhmm

The TECHNOLOGY they use is real, just the application of it is a little ... uh .. far-fetched, quick, and far too pretty. We do NOT have rotating 3-dimensional busts of the person being run on our computer, a history of all their jobs and acquaintances, family members, and last time they made a phone call. Can that information be obtained, and can it be on a local system? Sure. If the person has been contacted enough times and people fill out all the info and dutifully input the data, but ... come on!!!

Well, no offense but it appears that your technology is clearly lacking and you have a lot of catching up to do. And you should be solving everything in 2 days max. It really doesn't look that difficult.

(stuff like that's probably how I end up on cops smart ass lists to start with. i'll stay away from nor cal, you probably already figured out my last name)

 

[CdwJava]

So if we'd stayed at the party he wouldn't have gotten any MIP (if he didn't have any on him, he'd stopped by the time I got there) or drunk in public?

If he is under 18 and the residence was not his, and someone else was providing the alcohol, he could still have been picked up and whoever was hosting the shindig may well have been arrested.

Just picked up and taken home or something? That sucks. I was just trying to do the right thing for him, he kind of wanted to go home and we thought he'd be better with sober parents (they're not the kinds to kill him over this) than drunk kids...

Best bet would have been to contact his parents. I know it is not what kids do, but it would have kept him out of any real trouble with the police. Heck, he may not be facing any charges at all. If he was simply taken him because he was a minor who had been drinking, it is possible he was not charged with any offense.

If it was drunk in public is that something that also has the whole license suspension going on, like you can get for MIP? I'd feel real bad about speeding and getting cops attention then...

Unless you can tell me what offense he has been charged with, I can't say whether it has any license penalty assigned to it. However, either common section will involve a license suspension for a time.

Well, no offense but it appears that your technology is clearly lacking and you have a lot of catching up to do. And you should be solving everything in 2 days max. It really doesn't look that difficult.

The technology is there, but the money and infrastructure to deploy it on a large scale is not. Since much of it would require overhauling STATE computer systems, there is only so much we can do at the local level. The backbone of the technology is still textual and based on some architecture that was in place when I was in high school (i.e. the dark ages).

 

[sullyer]

Best bet would have been to contact his parents. I know it is not what kids do, but it would have kept him out of any real trouble with the police. Heck, he may not be facing any charges at all.

yeah. I know what you mean, and his parents are pretty cool but still...you never want them to actually see the party...

If he was simply taken him because he was a minor who had been drinking, it is possible he was not charged with any offense.

That woulda been nice but that cop didn't seem to like us that much. He threw cuffs on him because he kept putting his hands in his pockets, cop kept telling him to take his hands out of his pockets. He wasn't doing it on purpose, to piss him off, his hands were just going there. lol. Cop had already searched him and knew there was nothing in his pockets, I said that to the cop (i suppose he didn't like that-he basically told me to shut up). My friend was laughing a bit, i suppose cop didn't like that either. I don't think he likes anything. I only laughed at him when he said my car smelt like pot cos it was stupid. It just seems like my friend got arrested and my car was searched because the cop didn't like us.
You were right, it was drunk in public, not mip. My friend says he wasn't drunk in public, he was dazed in public. He was like that because of the medication more than the alcohol, I don't know if that's an argument though.

The technology is there, but the money and infrastructure to deploy it on a large scale is not. Since much of it would require overhauling STATE computer systems, there is only so much we can do at the local level. The backbone of the technology is still textual and based on some architecture that was in place when I was in high school (i.e. the dark ages).

Wow, really?

See, someone thought 'the terminator's from the future!, he'll fix all the technology problems!'.

 

[CdwJava]

One can be guilty of public intoxication when under the influence of drugs or alcohol - even legal drugs. So, if he was out of it, then the arrest was righteous.

 

[sullyer]

One can be guilty of public intoxication when under the influence of drugs or alcohol - even legal drugs. So, if he was out of it, then the arrest was righteous.

Ok. Thanks.


Sorry to keep asking questions, but how do they prove this? Is it difficult to prove? Anything that I've said so far that makes him this? -

(a) The person's public intoxication makes him or her unable to exercise care for his or her own safety or the safety of others; or

I mean when this whole thing started he was just sitting in the car being quiet. It's not like he fell out of the car or climbed out the window when he got out. He didn't do anything to get the cop's attention. When he talked he was slurring a bit - does that make you unable to exercise care? And, well, it was obvious to me that he preferred leaning on my car but he wasn't stumbling around or anything, he wasn't sliding off the car. When they wanted to search him he didn't really have any trouble moving off my car. Not even a faceplant or anything. He didn't need any help to walk. Basically what I'm saying is I've seen people WAY drunker. And the only other things he did was laugh a bit, kept doing the hands in pockets thing and tell the cop "i dunno" (where have you been) and "i dunno" (where'd you get the alcohol) and "i dunno" (how much have you had to drink tonight). Obviously he did know...he just wasn't saying. Would they take those answers to mean he was 'unable to exercise care for his own safety'? Would they say later, that kid didn't know what was going on. (I told him when we got pulled over, don't say anything man, I think he thought that i dunno was the same as shhhh)
They have a breathlyzer reading on him if that changes anything.

It just seems too much for what he was like...

and he wasn't doing this, so it's obviously the (a) they were going for -

(b) By reason of the public intoxication, the person "interferes with or obstructs or prevents the free use of any street, sidewalk, or other public way."

Thanks, I'm feeling bad about speeding now...

 

[HappyWanderer]

Now you get to a question of fact and not of law. Consider a jury of retired school teachers or active government workers, what will they think from what all the parties say?

 

[CdwJava]

Sorry to keep asking questions, but how do they prove this? Is it difficult to prove? Anything that I've said so far that makes him this? -

(a) The person's public intoxication makes him or her unable to exercise care for his or her own safety or the safety of others; or

That will be up to the officers to articulate it. I do not know what they saw so I could only guess that he appeared out of it.

But, if he was under 18 then they had additional authority to take him into custody at least so as to turn him over to his parents.

They have a breathlyzer reading on him if that changes anything.

And what was that?

And, how old was he again????

 

[sullyer]

Now you get to a question of fact and not of law. Consider a jury of retired school teachers or active government workers

he's juvenile so he doesn't get a jury does he?

what will they think from what all the parties say?

Well I suppose he's disadvantaged from being underage to start with....

 

[sullyer]

But, if he was under 18 then they had additional authority to take him into custody at least so as to turn him over to his parents.

yeah and he coulda left it at that.

And what was that?

don't know.

I know mine. 0.00. Both times. yeah, he wanted me for something. well, I don't like him either then.

And, how old was he again????

about the right age for it to maybe **** up some college applications. nice way to over-react cop.

 

[CdwJava]

about the right age for it to maybe **** up some college applications. nice way to over-react cop.

Now, WHY is it that people blame the police for the decision that THEY (the person) made!

The police did not force him to drink - he did that himself. The police did not "over react" they reacted the situation that was presented to them. If he was truly concerned about those college applications, maybe he should have avoided the underage (criminal) drinking.

Usually these matters are dismissed with no charges among adults. As he is a juvenile, I suspect that the greatest punishment he will have to suffer through will be alcohol counseling and some informal probation and maybe some community service.

 

[sullyer]

Now, WHY is it that people blame the police for the decision that THEY (the person) made!

Maybe because these ones act like they got a quota to make. I mean they gave me an mip and then later said "oh whoops, we don't really have any evidence". I think that if I was in an accident and someone smashed my tail light, they'd probably show up and give me a ticket for having a busted tail light.

If he was truly concerned about those college applications, maybe he should have avoided the underage (criminal) drinking.

well s***, we're not perfect.

As he is a juvenile, I suspect that the greatest punishment he will have to suffer through will be alcohol counseling and some informal probation and maybe some community service.

does informal probation end up on a record?