Am I being unreasonable?

[MoJo1616]

Sorry for the confusion

In June of 09 I went to a attorney in Lempster County PA. I only lived there for 5 months so I could not file for divorce there. So I went to an attorney in Blair County who filed for the divorce. No CS was filed at the time. I was still trying to work all that out with ex. without court. marital home is in Cambria county neighboring Blair. I did not know that my attorney filed in Blair County. I found new attorney he looked into what was filed and that was how I found out the divorce was filed in Blair not Cambria.
Under advice from new attorney I filed for CS and SS. Was declined SS. I was still living in Lempster County when all this was going on. In Sept. 09 I get the served "Write NE Exeat" papers. Judges orders me back here in Aug.09
So after ruling my attorney inquires about utilities on the house. It goes to DR. I have no idea what he filed I just know that I have an order here that states that:
MR**** is responsible for utilities ( electric, heating, water/sewage) at (address) If they are currently in his name.
Ms. ***** stay was ordered temporary by (judges name) If ruling were to become final then all utilities are to be switched over to Ms. **** name.

note* my name is NOT anywhere on the deed, loan or any of the utilities.
to have utilities switched cost

APL : "Alimony Pendente Lite"
here is how my attorney explained it to me
my ex has a job and can afford an attorney. I do not have a job so attorney fees are my ex husbands responsibility to pay. Reason I can file this: HE filed in the courts first for custody of the kids causing me to seek counsel to obtain custody of our kids.
** Plaintiff lacks sufficient property to provide for her reasonable needs and is unable to sustain herself through appropriate employment
**Plaintiff requires reasonable support to adequately maintain herself in accordance with the standards of living established during the marriage.

Does any of that help to clear it up?

 

[>Charlotte<]

Just thinking out loud here, but could that be not so much an order for him to live with his parents, but an acknowledgement within the order of the address at which he said (at the time) he would be living?

 

[Ohiogal]

In June of 09 I went to a attorney in Lempster County PA. I only lived there for 5 months so I could not file for divorce there. So I went to an attorney in Blair County who filed for the divorce. No CS was filed at the time. I was still trying to work all that out with ex. without court. marital home is in Cambria county neighboring Blair. I did not know that my attorney filed in Blair County. I found new attorney he looked into what was filed and that was how I found out the divorce was filed in Blair not Cambria.
Under advice from new attorney I filed for CS and SS. Was declined SS. I was still living in Lempster County when all this was going on. In Sept. 09 I get the served "Write NE Exeat" papers. Judges orders me back here in Aug.09
So after ruling my attorney inquires about utilities on the house. It goes to DR. I have no idea what he filed I just know that I have an order here that states that:
MR**** is responsible for utilities ( electric, heating, water/sewage) at (address) If they are currently in his name.
Ms. ***** stay was ordered temporary by (judges name) If ruling were to become final then all utilities are to be switched over to Ms. **** name.

note* my name is NOT anywhere on the deed, loan or any of the utilities.
to have utilities switched cost

APL : "Alimony Pendente Lite"
here is how my attorney explained it to me
my ex has a job and can afford an attorney. I do not have a job so attorney fees are my ex husbands responsibility to pay. Reason I can file this: HE filed in the courts first for custody of the kids causing me to seek counsel to obtain custody of our kids.
** Plaintiff lacks sufficient property to provide for her reasonable needs and is unable to sustain herself through appropriate employment
**Plaintiff requires reasonable support to adequately maintain herself in accordance with the standards of living established during the marriage.

Does any of that help to clear it up?

The issue you have is YOU QUIT A JOB. You quit. That is voluntary unemployment hence you will be imputed the income that you were making. And if the utilities are changed into your name, you are responsible for them. Do not count on your husband being required to pay YOUR attorney fees. You can request that but that doesn't mean he will be ordered to do so. You don't require support. You chose to need support by QUITTING your job. That is a big issue for you. And if anyone had been paying attention, this should NOT be in Blair County but should have been filed in Cambria. Which it seems that issue was waived since no one has thrown a fit. You can sometimes change venue so that is an issue that is not completely against you.

 

[MoJo1616]

I'm not banking on the APL. Didn't hurt to file it, lawyers are expensive. I have a job now, btw. If I wanted to live solely off my ex I wouldn't have divorced him. I would have dealt with HIS cheating, HIS drinking and HIS lack of interest in OUR family. I had to find a job here. Hard to find a job when jobs are not there. Was I expected to go on welfare?
Believe me my ex can afford to pay for BOTH our attorneys and not blink an eye at it.
And yes I did quit my job because I am the one person my kids can count on. I wasn't going to leave them. A 2 hour commute is to much, seem gas prices lately?
Sorry I do not mean to get rude, I'm so upset at all this. I have had a rough time with all. When I married this man I thought he was a wonderful person whom I would spent the rest of my life loving, He was a wonderful person. Caring, devoted the perfect man to have children with. Until I got pregnant. He change then. That was when the drinking started, long nights of NOT knowing where he was. DUI's "I'm Sorry" s and "Never again" s. I have "hidden" all this from friends, family and my children. I held it all in until the love went cold I was numb to the hurt. I dealt with not loving him years ago. I just went through all the motions for my kids. After all they deserve a happy "whole" family? Took me until just last year to get the nerve to leave. "Divorce is a sin" Don't you know? So on top of all this emotional heart break of people finding out I wasn't good enough to keep my husband home. I have to try to keep it together so that I can fight for my kids.
I am just looking to get out from his watchful eye. I understand that i have no control over what he does when he has the kids, I get that I have to co-parent with him, but I can't see being forced to stay in a home that holds so many hurtful memories. I try to smile and put on a front but kids are not dumb, they sense fear, hurt and tension. I do not bad mouth him to my kids..I may to my friends but NEVER when my kids are anywhere that they could be listening. My ex is not so kind, he tells my children I am to blame and that we would be a family if I would just let him come home. My children are confused. It would benefit ALL of us to have some distance. My ex is to focused on hurting me and not loving our kids. I love my children, I even smile when they tell me Daddy's girlfriend got us this or Daddy's girlfriend did that. I even thanked her for being so kind to my kids, even though I wanted to throw up thinking that she was trying to play Mommy to my kids.

Sorry I tend to ramble. Thank you for all your legal advice. I really do appreciate it. I will check with my attorney on the county issue

 

[LdiJ]

The issue you have is YOU QUIT A JOB. You quit. That is voluntary unemployment hence you will be imputed the income that you were making. And if the utilities are changed into your name, you are responsible for them. Do not count on your husband being required to pay YOUR attorney fees. You can request that but that doesn't mean he will be ordered to do so. You don't require support. You chose to need support by QUITTING your job. That is a big issue for you. And if anyone had been paying attention, this should NOT be in Blair County but should have been filed in Cambria. Which it seems that issue was waived since no one has thrown a fit. You can sometimes change venue so that is an issue that is not completely against you.

I think that you might want to review the timeline. It kind of looks like the judge made those orders AFTER she was forced to quit the job and return to the original community.

 

[Ohiogal]

I think that you might want to review the timeline. It kind of looks like the judge made those orders AFTER she was forced to quit the job and return to the original community.

You might review the fact that she has NOT received APL yet -- he was ordered to pay some bills. She has filed for it. She also has not gotten an award of attorney's fees either. Right now the judge has NOT ordered APL:

Well DR declined spousal support, my lawyer is fighting that as well because it was denied under false terms.

The Domestic Relations court DECLINED IT. Her lawyer is fighting for it. And apparently she now has a job.

 

[Ohiogal]

I'm not banking on the APL. Didn't hurt to file it, lawyers are expensive.

Not compared to going to law school yourself, they are not.

I have a job now, btw.

Good.

If I wanted to live solely off my ex I wouldn't have divorced him.

Just a little thing: you have NOT divorced him yet. You are in the process of doing so.

I would have dealt with HIS cheating, HIS drinking and HIS lack of interest in OUR family. I had to find a job here. Hard to find a job when jobs are not there. Was I expected to go on welfare?

You made choices. That is the issue. You made a choice to move the children from their father and got dinged on it.

Believe me my ex can afford to pay for BOTH our attorneys and not blink an eye at it.

Really? Is he independently wealthy?

And yes I did quit my job because I am the one person my kids can count on. I wasn't going to leave them. A 2 hour commute is to much, seem gas prices lately?

When they were four dollars a gallon I commuted at least 90 minutes each way. So quite frankly it is possible. Expensive but possible.

Sorry I do not mean to get rude, I'm so upset at all this.

You are allowed to be upset. But courts are not into emotion.

I have had a rough time with all. When I married this man I thought he was a wonderful person whom I would spent the rest of my life loving, He was a wonderful person. Caring, devoted the perfect man to have children with. Until I got pregnant. He change then. That was when the drinking started, long nights of NOT knowing where he was. DUI's "I'm Sorry" s and "Never again" s. I have "hidden" all this from friends, family and my children.

His children as well, right?

I held it all in until the love went cold I was numb to the hurt. I dealt with not loving him years ago. I just went through all the motions for my kids. After all they deserve a happy "whole" family?

If the "whole" family is NOT happy, then it is sometimes better for the parents to divorce.

Took me until just last year to get the nerve to leave. "Divorce is a sin" Don't you know?

It is only a sin if you consider it one. And even then, I truthfully believe that in some circumstances the sin is the better alternative to the "holy way".

So on top of all this emotional heart break of people finding out I wasn't good enough to keep my husband home. I have to try to keep it together so that I can fight for my kids.

He left and that is NOT on you. You don't control other people's actions. That is fact. Realize though that he has a right to custody as well. And to have a relationship with his children absent you.

I am just looking to get out from his watchful eye. I understand that i have no control over what he does when he has the kids, I get that I have to co-parent with him, but I can't see being forced to stay in a home that holds so many hurtful memories.

Then give him the house in the divorce. Let him refinance and buy out your equity -- if there is any -- from you.

I try to smile and put on a front but kids are not dumb, they sense fear, hurt and tension. I do not bad mouth him to my kids..I may to my friends but NEVER when my kids are anywhere that they could be listening

But they sense what you feel.

My ex is not so kind, he tells my children I am to blame and that we would be a family if I would just let him come home. My children are confused. It would benefit ALL of us to have some distance.

It would benefit YOU to have distance. Not necessarily the children.

My ex is to focused on hurting me and not loving our kids.

You don't know that. You think that because you are hurting.He may be concentrated on having his children with him.

I love my children, I even smile when they tell me Daddy's girlfriend got us this or Daddy's girlfriend did that. I even thanked her for being so kind to my kids, even though I wanted to throw up thinking that she was trying to play Mommy to my kids.

The children have ONE mommy and ONE daddy. You and Him. FOREVER. That is fact. Being kind doesn't mean playing mommy.

Sorry I tend to ramble. Thank you for all your legal advice. I really do appreciate it. I will check with my attorney on the county issue

the county issue may not be an issue since it seems to be waived. Though proper county is the one of the marital home.

 

[MoJo1616]

Not compared to going to law school yourself, they are not.

I'm sure but and not being rude in your own words "your choice" really I'm not being rude

Just a little thing: you have NOT divorced him yet. You are in the process of doing so.

I know the status of my divorce the divorce is not the issue, our kids are

You made choices. That is the issue. You made a choice to move the children from their father and got dinged on it.

Seems that that is the way the courts works

Really? Is he independently wealthy?

no but with his current job we didn't hurt for money at all. So he can afford it

When they were four dollars a gallon I commuted at least 90 minutes each way. So quite frankly it is possible. Expensive but possible.

being a lawyer you do make a smidged more than me I'm sure.

You are allowed to be upset. But courts are not into emotion.

Believe me I know the courts have no emotion. My family went through a very horrible trail when my cousin was murdered. It was so cold.
but then since families are about emotion and all you hear through out custody cases is "what's in the best interest of the children" shouldn't some emotion be taken into consideration ?why are laws so black and white? After all raising a mentally healthy child is just as important as physically healthy child isn't it?
I am not trying to take his kids and never let them see him. I'm trying to provide my kids with a happy life. As drama free as I can. Seeing Daddy's GF or mother follow us to the store or having Daddy do "pop ins" to fight with Mommy isn't the best for our kids IMO

It is only a sin if you consider it one. And even then, I truthfully believe that in some circumstances the sin is the better alternative to the "holy way".

I'm no "holy than thou" person just stating what is drilled into our head from a young age.

Then give him the house in the divorce. Let him refinance and buy out your equity -- if there is any -- from you.

he can have it. I do not want my 50%

But they sense what you feel.

I'm sure they do. It breaks my heart that they do. I do try to be kind about it all.

He may be concentrated on having his children with him.

No. Not buying it. When our oldest was born I did have a full time job, worked 40+ hours a week, we needed the money then. He made it VERY clear to me that he was not going to keep our child. I worked 3pm to 11pm (no other choice unless I wanted to quit) He got home at 5pm. Because he didn't want to have our child with him my mother kept him until I came to get him after work. So no I don't believe he is doing this to have his children with him. He has never spend volunteer time with them. Even when I was in the hospital ( I have Chron's Disease and for awhile was in and out of the hospital a lot) I had to make sure someone could keep the kids over night, when he was at home.

 

[Ohiogal]

I'm sure but and not being rude in your own words "your choice" really I'm not being rude

Yep law school was my choice HOWEVER my point was you are paying for an attorney's knowledge as well as making sure that they can afford to continue being in practice. Your hourly fee barely covers ANY of it.

I know the status of my divorce the divorce is not the issue, our kids are

The children should be the issue.

Seems that that is the way the courts works

The court works to ensure that children have a relationship with BOTH parents as that is in the children's best interest.

no but with his current job we didn't hurt for money at all. So he can afford it

And what about your current job? You didn't hurt for money when together in one household but you expect him to foot the bill for TWO households AND pay for TWO attorneys when you gripe about the cost of one?

being a lawyer you do make a smidged more than me I'm sure.

Really? All attorneys drive BMWs and live in 3000 square foot houses right? You know NOTHING about my income, my expenses or anything else so don't assume.

Believe me I know the courts have no emotion. My family went through a very horrible trail when my cousin was murdered. It was so cold.
but then since families are about emotion and all you hear through out custody cases is "what's in the best interest of the children" shouldn't some emotion be taken into consideration ?why are laws so black and white? After all raising a mentally healthy child is just as important as physically healthy child isn't it?

Laws are NOT so black and white. The best interest of the children is usually in the areas of gray -- meaning not where you want it and not where dad thinks it is. You have a biased in all this -- you are emotionally invested in the outcome which colors your way of thinking.

I am not trying to take his kids and never let them see him. I'm trying to provide my kids with a happy life. As drama free as I can.

So your children will be happy only if they are two hours away from their family because that makes you happy and drama free?

Seeing Daddy's GF or mother follow us to the store or having Daddy do "pop ins" to fight with Mommy isn't the best for our kids IMO

And how YOU react to that determines a lot. So maybe if you react differently, life would be easier and happier.

I'm no "holy than thou" person just stating what is drilled into our head from a young age.

Not into my head.

he can have it. I do not want my 50%

Apparently he can't have it since you are living there and expect him to pay the bills.

I'm sure they do. It breaks my heart that they do. I do try to be kind about it all.

Then you need to change YOUR actions, reactions and feelings about the whole situation.

No. Not buying it. When our oldest was born I did have a full time job, worked 40+ hours a week, we needed the money then. He made it VERY clear to me that he was not going to keep our child. I worked 3pm to 11pm (no other choice unless I wanted to quit) He got home at 5pm. Because he didn't want to have our child with him my mother kept him until I came to get him after work. So no I don't believe he is doing this to have his children with him. He has never spend volunteer time with them. Even when I was in the hospital ( I have Chron's Disease and for awhile was in and out of the hospital a lot) I had to make sure someone could keep the kids over night, when he was at home.

And how old was the child at that time? The children are older now and quite frankly things change.

 

[MoJo1616]

The children should be the issue.

the children were why I stayed as long as I did. I weighed the pros and cons before leaving. I wanted to see a marriage counselor long ago and he declined saying that nothing was wrong with our marriage. He was quite comfy his life

but you expect him to foot the bill for TWO households

He wanted us back, I'm sure he didn't expect to be kicked out of his own house, but his choice, he could have agreed to visitation the way it was offered him. He could have his own house, his own expenses and see his children EOW Friday thru Sunday, school breaks & summer vacations with me paying transportation. More than he gets now. He gets a few hours EOW and 1 overnight a month. He was not happy about having to leave his home or his amount of time with the kids. He has played nasty through all of this. If he cared about his kids why would he shut off the electric on them, not me, them?
So to answer you YES I do expect him to take responsibility for his house, his bills and his children. I was willing to take care of my own home, my own bills and my children. He opened his own can of warms.

You have a biased in all this -- you are emotionally invested in the outcome which colors your way of thinking.

Of course I am, it is my life. I am emotionally invested in my children's lives as well. Tell me you would not be upset if you were told that you either leave your kids or move back into a place you would rather not be? Honestly?

So your children will be happy only if they are two hours away from their family because that makes you happy and drama free?

I'm not an idiot. I do have a pretty good grip on life. I know there will be ups and downs but sometime removal from a situation IS best.

And how YOU react to that determines a lot. So maybe if you react differently, life would be easier and happier.

I don't react. I don't get all dramatic. I don't say a word. But what am I to say when kids ask why their grandmother always follows us? my answer is usually I don't know

Apparently he can't have it since you are living there and expect him to pay the bills.

I would gladly leave tomorrow.

Then you need to change YOUR actions, reactions and feelings about the whole situation.

So do I start saying nasty things to them about their Dad? Put down GF? I am nice about all, I do not throw fits, I do not cry in front of my kids. Mommy is still same old mommy according to my kids. They hear lots down at their Dad's house, more than I think children need to know but I can't help what he says or does, its his time.

And how old was the child at that time? The children are older now and quite frankly things change.

He was a year but I don't think that matters. I know plenty fathers who care for their infants (even one who cares for 1 yr. old twins) while Mom works. We had our child together, he should have been the one with our child.

 

[Ohiogal]

I am beginning to think you do NOT want to understand. You want to relegate dad to a minor place in the children's lives and you will do what you can do to ensure that and if you can punish dad in the process, you will cheer and applaud yourself. You are as bad as you are stating him to be.

 

[InOcentByStndr]

MOJO, I hope you are able to move away from there and live your life with your kids. I know what you're going through. I had a similar situation and went through the whole PFA thing and the ex's family stalking me right along with him. The harrassment was insane.

Of course there were people who said I was wrong, "stand by your man," or give Dad more visitation. Why would I want to do that? So my son could grow up to be like his dad?? So my daughters would accept the abuse as would have watched me accept it??? I think NOT.

If Dad is so interested in his kids, he shouldn't mind splitting driving time with you for visits. And you are offering to drive them to him.

In my case Dad didn't even show up to the custody hearing. I could have walked away with everything and was told so. I could have had full legal and full physical custody. BUT, I didn't want to be the b*tch, so I gave him every other weekend. Guess what?? Dad is usually never around and the new wife is with the kids. She treats them like crap. I live 15 minutes away from him and he complains that it is too far to come get them! He asks me to drop them off to him on his weekend, EVERY time. If I say no, then he tells my kids "She is just being a b*tch; She just doesn't want you guys to see me; She is just being lazy." But HE is the one who doesn't want to drive fifteen damn minutes to get his kids??

And guess what else... he is still abusive. He and his new wife fight constantly. In front of my kids and in front of their son. I know you have not mentioned your husband being abusive, however the stalking and random visits is not normal and who knows how much further it will go. The fact that his new girlfriend is spying on you for him shows that she is not too bright either. The last thing you want is to have a weird Dad and a whacko stepmom. Trust me, I know. It is my life.

My kids are older now - all teens, but still under 18. So they are starting to know that the actions of their Dad and the step mom are not normal nor right BUT they have already had to deal with all of this for several years so it is still confusing and they still have had that influence in their life and will be effected by it. With that outcome, that my kids could/will follow in their ridiculous ways is the reason why some dad's should not have custody, or it should be limited and the mother should be allowed to move on and do what is right for the kids.

I kick myself in the ass every damn day for giving him the every other weekend visitations. I kick myself for never going back and modifying the order to stop the visitations due to everything that my kids witness and are subjected to while on those weekend visits. That is my fault and I know that. I could have changed it but didn't. Why? Because my kids would always cry for their dad when he wasn't bothering with them. They would cry when he promised to come get them and never did. Once the custody order went into effect, dad got the kids on his weekends and I believe it was because he thought he would be in trouble if he didn't. The kids looked forward to going with their dad on those weekends, even if thy ended up let down after the fact because he would go away and wouldn't spend the time with them anyway.

If I would have ended the visitations, the kids would have hated me. Him and the wife go away on the weekends during the visits. The kids are left alone or with a sitter. If the wife is home, dad is gone. Kids stay in their bedrooms as to not have to deal with stepmom. I got all of my kids cellphones at young ages specifically for the purpose of being able to call me from dad's house because stepmom would hide the house phones and would not let them call me. They call me constantly on dad's weekends. They often ask me to pick them up early as well.

I feel in my situation, I was damned if I do and damned if I don't. Dad and his crazy family made my life hell and continue to do so by telling my kids insane stories and lies about me. Ex MIL told my youngest daughter that I drank liquor while I was pregnant with her, wanted to abort her and tried to find people to "give her away" to. That is just one little example. (and NO, none of it is true!)

I met my ex when I was 13. I was with him from 13 - 22 yrs old. It took me that long to realize he was not mentally sound and his family was even more "off" than he was. I was too young to know when I met him and had no guidance. To this day his mom tells me I was weak to leave him and that I should have stayed with him because that's what a good woman does. I don't agree with that at all. She took many beatings from her husband. He used prostitutes, was an alcoholic, slept with his sister in law for abt 15 years and it just goes on and on. She says she is a real woman for standing by him through all of that and everything is all better now. I guess so, he is 60, had numerous heart surgeries and can't get a hardon anymore. He is too weak to beat her anymore. Were those 40 years of abuse worth it to get to these final days. Her head has to be all screwed up so it is not true to say everything is all better now.

I know I am rambling profusely, but I just really wanted to say that I hope you are able to move on with your kids.

There is a difference between being that b*tch that just wanted to screw over the dad and not give them any visitation and wanting what is best for your kids.

My son was 5 when I left his dad. He saw too much by that point. I see his dad's traits in him and have to wonder if it is because he saw how his dad treated me for those years and how he treats his current wife. Some of it is just genes, but some of it could have been avoided by him not having the influence of his dad.

I wish you the best MOJO. Only you know what is right and wrong and you have to do what you truly feel is best for your kids and for you. You have to go with your feelings and with what you know is true.

Sorry this is soooo lonnnggggg!!!