appealing a red light traffic violation legal error?

[potsnpea]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

CA


I am trying to appeal a red light violation conviction. I think I have a very good case but I am lousy at defending myself in court.

I supposedly ran a red light that was on a part of the street that bends to the right. I say supposedly ran the red light because I did not consciously note that I ran the red light. Maybe I didn't see it, maybe I went through the tail end of a yellow that turned red. I just don't remember.

When I went back to look at the light I saw that the light is covered by a large tree up until about three car links before the line. Because of the tree the city placed a light that is not standard or regular on the opposite side of the street, on the left hand side of the street. That light you could see but my defense was that there was a pattern down the street where the light that you went by was above the lane and when you came to the light I supposedly ran through that the light was obscured and that it was not obvious to me that the light on the left hand side of the street was my light to follow. I testified that I was looking in that direction watching to make sure traffic wasn't coming as I had on previous streets where there wasn't a traffic signal just to make sure no one was coming out.

Anyways I believe I had a good case but I did not have signal codes and I did not know how to talk legal jargain or codes.

The judge asked me if I took the photos way later when the trees had bloomed. I told him no I took them about 5 days later. He didn't deny that the tree was in front of the two lights that are above my lane or on the right. The officer didn't deny that the tree was in the way either. He said we live in Sacramento, The City of Trees and that the city decided in that location to put the light on the opposite side of the street rather than trim the tree or remove the tree.

I feel like I proved that the intersection was irregular and that the tree was obscurring the light. I made the point that the only remaining light that was visible was not regular and did not seem apparant to me that it was my light.

I have noticed as I drive around that lights on the left hand side of the street are not always in sync with the light on the right so I do not see how I should have known this light was in sync.

The judge decided that since there were three lights and the one on the left hand side of the street was visible that he would find me guilty.

I stated that I was driving very carefully and that I hadn't received a ticket for over 20 years. I got the full ticket amount. $461.00 plus a finance charge because I am paying payments now.

So my question is if I am appealing the case is there any legal errors that I can use in my appeal. Is the fact that I don't feel there was enough evidence that the light on the left hand side was according to standard regulations of street lights. Was there was not enough evedidence that the light was with in proper regulations for traffic lights.


When the proceedings began the officer asked the judge to ammend the violation code from 121463aVC (red light violation) to 121453aVC (red light violation).

Would this technical error be cause enough to appeal may case.


When I first arrived to court a court person came and told me my court room had changed because the officer who ticketed me was in another court room due to two other people who were being tried. I was told it was in the court room next door. I asked the person if I I had time to use the restroom before going to the court room and he told me yes. When I came back from the rest room the person was not there and I accidently went into the wrong courtroom. I thought I saw the person who had told me to change court rooms in the room I was in. After about an hour and my name wasn't being called I thought I might be in the wrong room. I was. When I got to the correct court room the judge took me on but I was feeling very flustered at that point. I didn't get to watch any court procedings and I am not sure if I was being judged for being late.

Would this be considered a legal error?

I understand I may be being technical but I the appeal wants to know if there was any legal errors. Since I am not court savy I have no idea was a legal error is that would constitute an appeal. I just know I feel innocent and I am not comfortable with the verdict. Had I been driving reklously or had I really run the red light I wouldn't be trying to fight this ticket but I felt like I was driving safe and paying attention to the fullest when it happened.

It seems very difficult to get legal help when it comes to a traffic ticket. Legal help would run around $1500 which is just crazy. The ticket is very expensive but to not expensive enough to warrant highering an attorney. It's like the traffic court knows exactly how much to set these tickets.

 

[I_Got_Banned]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

CA


I am trying to appeal a red light violation conviction. I think I have a very good case but I am lousy at defending myself in court.

I supposedly ran a red light that was on a part of the street that bends to the right. I say supposedly ran the red light because I did not consciously note that I ran the red light. Maybe I didn't see it, maybe I went through the tail end of a yellow that turned red. I just don't remember.

When I went back to look at the light I saw that the light is covered by a large tree up until about three car links before the line. Because of the tree the city placed a light that is not standard or regular on the opposite side of the street, on the left hand side of the street. That light you could see but my defense was that there was a pattern down the street where the light that you went by was above the lane and when you came to the light I supposedly ran through that the light was obscured and that it was not obvious to me that the light on the left hand side of the street was my light to follow. I testified that I was looking in that direction watching to make sure traffic wasn't coming as I had on previous streets where there wasn't a traffic signal just to make sure no one was coming out.

Anyways I believe I had a good case but I did not have signal codes and I did not know how to talk legal jargain or codes.

The judge asked me if I took the photos way later when the trees had bloomed. I told him no I took them about 5 days later. He didn't deny that the tree was in front of the two lights that are above my lane or on the right. The officer didn't deny that the tree was in the way either. He said we live in Sacramento, The City of Trees and that the city decided in that location to put the light on the opposite side of the street rather than trim the tree or remove the tree.

I feel like I proved that the intersection was irregular and that the tree was obscurring the light. I made the point that the only remaining light that was visible was not regular and did not seem apparant to me that it was my light.

I have noticed as I drive around that lights on the left hand side of the street are not always in sync with the light on the right so I do not see how I should have known this light was in sync.

The judge decided that since there were three lights and the one on the left hand side of the street was visible that he would find me guilty.

I stated that I was driving very carefully and that I hadn't received a ticket for over 20 years. I got the full ticket amount. $461.00 plus a finance charge because I am paying payments now.

So my question is if I am appealing the case is there any legal errors that I can use in my appeal. Is the fact that I don't feel there was enough evidence that the light on the left hand side was according to standard regulations of street lights. Was there was not enough evedidence that the light was with in proper regulations for traffic lights.


When the proceedings began the officer asked the judge to ammend the violation code from 121463aVC (red light violation) to 121453aVC (red light violation).

Would this technical error be cause enough to appeal may case.


When I first arrived to court a court person came and told me my court room had changed because the officer who ticketed me was in another court room due to two other people who were being tried. I was told it was in the court room next door. I asked the person if I I had time to use the restroom before going to the court room and he told me yes. When I came back from the rest room the person was not there and I accidently went into the wrong courtroom. I thought I saw the person who had told me to change court rooms in the room I was in. After about an hour and my name wasn't being called I thought I might be in the wrong room. I was. When I got to the correct court room the judge took me on but I was feeling very flustered at that point. I didn't get to watch any court procedings and I am not sure if I was being judged for being late.

Would this be considered a legal error?

I understand I may be being technical but I the appeal wants to know if there was any legal errors. Since I am not court savy I have no idea was a legal error is that would constitute an appeal. I just know I feel innocent and I am not comfortable with the verdict. Had I been driving reklously or had I really run the red light I wouldn't be trying to fight this ticket but I felt like I was driving safe and paying attention to the fullest when it happened.

It seems very difficult to get legal help when it comes to a traffic ticket. Legal help would run around $1500 which is just crazy. The ticket is very expensive but to not expensive enough to warrant highering an attorney. It's like the traffic court knows exactly how much to set these tickets.

Sorry.. But based on what you posted, I don't see even a glimmer of hope of you succeeding on appeal. You cannot appeal simply because you don't like the verdict or because you think its unfair.

It is within the judge's ability to review the evidence before him and render a verdict accordingly. The appellate WILL NOT second guess the findings of the trial court. They will not consider an appeal based on the grounds that the officer corrected the vehicle code section number immediately before your trial.

As for the wrong courtroom issue, and since it had no bearing on the outcome of the case, it does not present you with an proper grounds for an appeal... nor will the fact that it is difficult/expensive to get legal help for a traffic case.

 

[demurringdude]

When the proceedings began the officer asked the judge to ammend the violation code from 121463aVC (red light violation) to 121453aVC (red light violation).

Would this technical error be cause enough to appeal may case.

Yes. You put your finger on the correct issue. The prosecution cannot change the crime you are charged with after you have entered your plea. Certainly not when the trial has already started. So your judge made an error, and that is a good basis for appeal. In fact, he made two errors:

1. The judge should not have permitted the police officer to make the motion to change the charge. The police officer is not an attorney, and is not allowed to do any legal act in court. He is there only to give evidence. So the judge erred in even allowing the motion to be made.

2. The judge erred in granting the motion. You had already entered your plea, the trial had started, and you cannot be expected to suddenly defend yourself on a different charge. The judge should have dismissed the complaint if it was incorrect, not changed it.

The other issues you raise are not grounds for appeal. But you don't need them anyway.

 

[Zigner]

Yes. You put your finger on the correct issue. The prosecution cannot change the crime you are charged with after you have entered your plea. Certainly not when the trial has already started. So your judge made an error, and that is a good basis for appeal. In fact, he made two errors:

1. The judge should not have permitted the police officer to make the motion to change the charge. The police officer is not an attorney, and is not allowed to do any legal act in court. He is there only to give evidence. So the judge erred in even allowing the motion to be made.

Only if objected to AT THE TIME.

2. The judge erred in granting the motion. You had already entered your plea, the trial had started, and you cannot be expected to suddenly defend yourself on a different charge. The judge should have dismissed the complaint if it was incorrect, not changed it.

Only if objected to AT THE TIME.

 

[demurringdude]

If a defendant walks into his trial charged with crime A and walks out convicted of crime B, with no lawyers in the room, I suspect the appeals court is going to throw it out regardless of what the defendant could have said at the time.

 

[Zigner]

If a defendant walks into his trial charged with crime A and walks out convicted of crime B, with no lawyers in the room, I suspect the appeals court is going to throw it out regardless of what the defendant could have said at the time.

The charge is allowed to be amended BEFORE the trial starts. D would have to object.

 

[demurringdude]

The charge is allowed to be amended BEFORE the trial starts. D would have to object.

Wrong. The charge cannot be changed after a plea is entered.

If the prosecution wants to change the charge, the defendant needs to be arraigned on the new charge. Judges don't have any authority to order otherwise, regardless of the defendant's objection or lack thereof.

This defendant cannot properly be convicted of a crime he was never arraigned for.

 

[JIMinCA]

Wrong. The charge cannot be changed after a plea is entered.

If the prosecution wants to change the charge, the defendant needs to be arraigned on the new charge. Judges don't have any authority to order otherwise, regardless of the defendant's objection or lack thereof.

This defendant cannot properly be convicted of a crime he was never arraigned for.

You are absolutely right and Zigner is absolutely wrong (as usual). The OP didn't necessarily have to preserve the action for appeal by objecting if the court had no authority to take the action it did in the first place.

 

[CdwJava]

Perhaps the officer's amendment was not necessary because you were arraigned on the original 21453(a) charge.

Do you have the paperwork from the original arraignment? Or the charges for when you went to trial? Were you going to trial for 21453(a) or 21463 (which does not HAVE an (a) subsection)?

I have to agree that the offense should no have been amended at the trial. However, if the officer was simply not aware that the amendment had already taken place prior to arraignment, then his "motion" was moot, anyway.

 

[potsnpea]

The only paperwork I have from the initial arraignment is a receipt they print out stating your court date and time and room number. It has a case number on it and a citation number on it. I do have my original citation as well.

The police officer opened up his talk with the fact that he had put the wrong number down.

The judge said that it was alright for him to make this type of correction because the officer had written (red light violation) in parenthesis after the code 21463aVc. Exactly what was written on my citation was 21463aVc/(Red Lt. Viol)

I do not think this was changed at the time when I first went to court and pleaded not guilty. Do I need to get any paperwork from the arraignment?
Can I get any paperwork from the arraignment.

I have a tape of the trial I was at. The judge seems to think this was a correctable type of error. I have read that the appellate court will almost always conclude that the trafic court judge ran the trial fairly and applied the law correctly. I read in the Nolo How to beat your ticket book that the appeals court has the power to ignore minor prodedural glitches (like the trial judge let the officer glance at his notes) if they conclude that the errors wer not significant.

I will go ahead and try this appeal based on the wrong numbers. I guess it can't hurt. In asking for an appeal I have already removed my right to go to traffic school so this is my only chance to protect myself.

My next question is... would I be better off appealing with a transcript of the original procedings or should I just verbalize the reasons I am appealing. There is the form CR-142 which uses the entire hearing word for word and then there is the CR-143 where I put things into my own words.

Should I still appeal on any of the other facts or just on this one.

I still think the police officer and the judge did not prove that the tree wasn't interfering significantly with the view of the light. They just think that I should have been able to tell by the third light which was on the left hand side of the street. They both admitted that the tree was blocking the light.

So should I just appeal on the incorrect numbers and should I use the court transcripts or not.

By the way Thank you very much for your advice and help on this matter. I can't express how thankful I am.

 

[potsnpea]

I went back and listened to the tape carefully. The police officer does ask to ammend the numbers but the judge also says that it says on the court papers 21453aVC. I don't have any paperwork showing this change but I guess according to the court because it says red light violation afterwards they were able to change the code.

I didn't know this until I went to court and even when I was in court I wasn't sure what this all meant.

 

[potsnpea]

The paperwork they gave me at court does not state the violation code. It only states the case number and citation number. Court date, time and room. It has my name and address and the date of my arraignment at the top.

The courts may have changed the violation number on the citation before my trial but they didn't give me anything in writing to indicate such a change was made. If they said the change verbally the would have just asked me if I was pleading guilty or not guilty to the charge and then said the charge. I wouldn't have noticed that they changed it or not. They certainly didn't point the change at the arraingment.

 

[demurringdude]

The thing that counts is what it says on the citation (ie ticket) you received in the mail. That is what you were arraigned on, and that is what you entered your plea to. That cannot be changed at trial, no matter what other papers the court might have with a different number on.

The fact that that the words "red lt viol" were written on your citation after the code section does not give the judge the right to substitute some other code section with a similar description. This is a definite judge error that the appeal court is likely to reverse.

I would focus on this issue and ignore the other circumstance. The appellate court is not going to look at the facts and circumstances, that's not their job.

I suspect it will not matter if you use the audio recording or your own version. The mere fact of being arraigned on charge A and being convicted of charge B is enough. They don't need to know what happened in the trial, there is nothing that could justified the outcome. Your citation, and the court order you were given at the end of the trial are pretty much all you need to win.

 

[CdwJava]

I would still like to know what was on the court paperwork at arraignment. I strongly suspect that he was arraigned on 21453(a) and not on the non-existing 21463(a) (the section exists, but the subsection does not).

 

[potsnpea]

So if the paperwork at the time of arraingment did have the new violation code written on it would the court have been obligated to let me know the were changing it at the time of the arraignment.

Do I go by the citation or the arraignment papers. I don't seem to have any arraignment papers besides this little receipt thing which doesn't say the violation code on it.