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Mouse infestation & feces

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QM07

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina

I am seeking guidance regarding a particular issue I am experiencing with my management company regarding the ongoing presence of mice both previously in my actual unit and the ceiling/walls, and more importantly, mouse feces in the both ceilings areas and what appears to be caulked over in certain corners of apartment.

In the early fall, I purchased an overhead light to install in my living room. When removing the ceiling cover/cap (plastic circle which covers the wiring for an overhead) I discovered what appeared to be old mouse feces. I verbally notified the community manager of the past and potential future presence of mice given this discovery. More importantly, the health risks associated with exposure to mouse urine and feces, and its probable location in other portions of the ceiling and/or HVAC ductwork (mice are notorious for chewing through anything short of steel wire). No action was taken. I did photograph the actual feces, and maintained the cover on my back porch.

I did not further pursue having been quite busy with the ongoing development of my business. Months later in early winter, I began audibly hearing mice in the ceiling and even walls. Shortly thereafter, I discovered a mouse in my actual apartment unit, which took me two days to catch. Through much effort, I caught the live mouse in a glass jar and photographed it.

At which point, I contacted the regional manager with a stern letter as well as photographs of the overhead light cap, feces, and live mouse. I informed him of the multitude of health issues prevalent in having mice present in a building and requested a mutually agreeable cessation to the lease agreement based upon the underlying necessity to possible treat a building-wide mouse problem (my building has over 50 units in it).

He sent their contracted exterminator, Orkin, into my unit with glue traps, and suggested he could not trust my photographs were authentic until they caught a live mouse themselves. The Orkin representative was presented the light cap fixture with feces, alongside a small amount he found along the wall in a living area. I informed them that it was not agreeable to utilize glue traps given my unwillingness to dispose of exposed mice bodies. I purchased my own, more expensive spin traps which require no actual exposure. However, no additional mice have been caught in the meantime.

The Orkin rep, contracted by my management company, refused to answer any of my questions as if he had been instructed to. The management company has not taken any further action to investigate the issue and ensure the building and my unit is clear of mouse feces.

Yesterday, my girlfriend and I got into an argument which resulted in her slamming the bathroom door. The door slam actually caused the plastic overhead fan cover in the bathroom to fall open, and a large volume of mouse feces fell onto the floor. I had to thoroughly clean mouse feces, which was not pleasant.

Ultimately, I am interested to learn the opinions of the good members of this forum in reference to the landlord's responsibility nearly 3 months ago, when the mouse was first caught, in investigating the potential entry points of mice, the sanctity of the HVAC unit ductwork and any other circulatory systems in the building, and removing mouse feces, which are clearly present, from the ceiling areas.

To-date, it is evident that potentially disease-causing mouse feces are present in the ceiling of my unit, and presumably others. I appreciate your time and consideration in advance.

PS - I overlooked in my initial post including the fact that, upon further examination, it actually appears that maintenance caulked over old mouse feces in the corners of certain areas of the apartment, including the entryway and pantry. The pantry is very dark, and it took a thorough examination of my unit after this experience to identify what is most likely old mouse feces inside old caulking. This indicates their prior awareness of, and negligence in investigating this issue prior to my even having moved in.
 


HomeGuru

Senior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? North Carolina

I am seeking guidance regarding a particular issue I am experiencing with my management company regarding the ongoing presence of mice both previously in my actual unit and the ceiling/walls, and more importantly, mouse feces in the both ceilings areas and what appears to be caulked over in certain corners of apartment.

In the early fall, I purchased an overhead light to install in my living room. When removing the ceiling cover/cap (plastic circle which covers the wiring for an overhead) I discovered what appeared to be old mouse feces. I verbally notified the community manager of the past and potential future presence of mice given this discovery. More importantly, the health risks associated with exposure to mouse urine and feces, and its probable location in other portions of the ceiling and/or HVAC ductwork (mice are notorious for chewing through anything short of steel wire). No action was taken. I did photograph the actual feces, and maintained the cover on my back porch.

I did not further pursue having been quite busy with the ongoing development of my business. Months later in early winter, I began audibly hearing mice in the ceiling and even walls. Shortly thereafter, I discovered a mouse in my actual apartment unit, which took me two days to catch. Through much effort, I caught the live mouse in a glass jar and photographed it.

At which point, I contacted the regional manager with a stern letter as well as photographs of the overhead light cap, feces, and live mouse. I informed him of the multitude of health issues prevalent in having mice present in a building and requested a mutually agreeable cessation to the lease agreement based upon the underlying necessity to possible treat a building-wide mouse problem (my building has over 50 units in it).

He sent their contracted exterminator, Orkin, into my unit with glue traps, and suggested he could not trust my photographs were authentic until they caught a live mouse themselves. The Orkin representative was presented the light cap fixture with feces, alongside a small amount he found along the wall in a living area. I informed them that it was not agreeable to utilize glue traps given my unwillingness to dispose of exposed mice bodies. I purchased my own, more expensive spin traps which require no actual exposure. However, no additional mice have been caught in the meantime.

The Orkin rep, contracted by my management company, refused to answer any of my questions as if he had been instructed to. The management company has not taken any further action to investigate the issue and ensure the building and my unit is clear of mouse feces.

Yesterday, my girlfriend and I got into an argument which resulted in her slamming the bathroom door. The door slam actually caused the plastic overhead fan cover in the bathroom to fall open, and a large volume of mouse feces fell onto the floor. I had to thoroughly clean mouse feces, which was not pleasant.

Ultimately, I am interested to learn the opinions of the good members of this forum in reference to the landlord's responsibility nearly 3 months ago, when the mouse was first caught, in investigating the potential entry points of mice, the sanctity of the HVAC unit ductwork and any other circulatory systems in the building, and removing mouse feces, which are clearly present, from the ceiling areas.

To-date, it is evident that potentially disease-causing mouse feces are present in the ceiling of my unit, and presumably others. I appreciate your time and consideration in advance.

PS - I overlooked in my initial post including the fact that, upon further examination, it actually appears that maintenance caulked over old mouse feces in the corners of certain areas of the apartment, including the entryway and pantry. The pantry is very dark, and it took a thorough examination of my unit after this experience to identify what is most likely old mouse feces inside old caulking. This indicates their prior awareness of, and negligence in investigating this issue prior to my even having moved in.
**A: so what is your question? I have one for you; have you read the NC landlord tenant law for your remedies as a tenant?
 

QM07

Junior Member
Hello HomeGuru:

I appreciate your time in following up. Of course, I have read the NC Landlord/Tenant Statutes which are very general, and quite outdated. Until the 70s, NC was an Agricultural state, and the majority of statutes apply to agricultural tenants (ie. farmers renting land). However, the statutes do require the unit is kept safe and habitable, as does the implied warranty of the lease.

In general, I'm curious as to whether the landlord's inaction has breached both the implied warranty in the lease, as well as statutory requirements to take appropriate action in keeping the unit fit and safe.


More specifically my question regarding responsibility toward specific actions which violate the above-mentioned contract and statutes was:

Ultimately, I am interested to learn the opinions of the good members of this forum in reference to the landlord's responsibility nearly 3 months ago, when the mouse was first caught, in investigating the potential entry points of mice, the sanctity of the HVAC unit ductwork and any other circulatory systems in the building, and removing mouse feces, which are clearly present, from the ceiling areas.

Additionally, I am interested
 

Hot Topic

Senior Member
Call the city health department and the building inspector.

Glue traps are not only inhumane, they cause the mice to "relieve" themselves as they struggle to escape, adding to the contamination of your surroundings.
 

QM07

Junior Member
Hello Hot Topic:

I very much appreciate your time in contributing your insight regarding my issue. I agree that glue traps are also inhumane, and appreciate your additional point regarding their release additional urine or feces in their struggle with the trap itself over time.

On that note, I am interested to learn your opinion as to whether the situation, given it has been over 60+ days at this point and no further effort has been made by the management company, if they have failed to maintain safe and habitable premises.

I am most concerned of the potential for the mice to have chewed their way into the HVAC ductwork, and laid feces/urine within the ventilation system. I fear that my health is at ongoing risk with each passing day I reside here and have been met with aggressive and rude response to my concerns.

The management's attitude and willingness to argue technicalities as opposed to address the issue really is highlighted by the regional manager having suggested the photographs I've taken were not proof of the presence of mice.

Thanks again.
 

Hot Topic

Senior Member
I strongly urge you to contact the health department and building inspector on Monday. You obviously need people with clout to deal with the situation, especially since you know the landlord is reluctant (or too cheap?) to do so.
 
Get other tenants to organize as a group promptly

I am not licensed in your state, unless it is Illinois, and therefore, although an attorney, am not offering legal advice.

Best thing to do in my view is to talk with other tenants in the building or complex to see if they are having similar problems. From what you have posted, it seems likely that others have similar concerns.

It is not enough for management to suggest you are not telling the truth. Good managers and owners will express concern and know that it is in their best interests to investigate and help solve any problems that exist, but if mean spirited, it is relatively easy, given differences in economic power, to knock-off tenants' legitimate concerns one-on one, so to speak; however, if the tenants get organized and get structured and have a group approach, then management will generally listen. If they don't, you then have a group that can raise a bit of money to find and hire a lawyer in your geographic area to tell you what your legal rights are and then to do what needs to be done. You may have much more power then you realize, but you do need to know what your rights are before proceeding further.
 

atomizer

Senior Member
You should have let the Orkin guy do his job. Now the company has documentation that they addressed the problem and you refused to let the man do the job he was contracted to do.
 

Searchertwin

Senior Member
True, they are more power in a group, but it takes only one to make that group fall. You were the one that may the group fall when, as Atomizer stated, "You should have let the Orkin guy do his job. Now the company has documentation that they addressed the problem and you refused to let the man do the job he was contracted to do."
 

QM07

Junior Member
You should have let the Orkin guy do his job. Now the company has documentation that they addressed the problem and you refused to let the man do the job he was contracted to do.
I did allow the Orkin guy to "do his job". I provided him the opportunity to enter my unit, inspect my unit, and identify the presence of rodent feces. Thereby, confirming the presence of mice.

However, if by "doing his job", you are suggesting allowing him to lay glue trips, which as another poster has commented, actually add to the contamination of an already tainted unit, I will have to disagree.

I very much doubt my allowing Orkin to fully inspect the unit, and respectfully requesting they utilize an alternative to glue traps, while volunteering to purchase my own, more sanitary devices could be construed as disallowing them to do their job. The ultimate purpose of their sending Orkin into my unit was to confirm the presence of mice. Laying a few glue traps in one unit with a 50-unit building is hardly sufficient to remediate the problem.

Aside from laying traps, management had the following responsibilities:

1). Identify and correct all potential entry points of the building to negate further entry of new mice.
2). Identify and ensure the HVAC unit has not been breached so as to ensure the safety of the air in both my unit and the entire building, given their provision of photographs of rodent feces in the ceiling areas, and Orkin's confirmation of such.

Furthermore, I hired Terminix to enter my unit and lay the traps I purchased based upon their 'professional discretion'. However, the management of my building has failed to properly address the presence of rodent feces in the ceiling, to-date. Disallowing Orkin to lay glue traps in my unit, while volunteering to ensure equivalent action was taken does *not* absolve management from addressing the additional issues which coincide with attempting to physically catch all mice.
 
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