Is what I read on another post true....

[Finished2010]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TX

I was just reading through some posts and saw that a fathers rights cannot be terminated due to abandonment if there are no visitation orders. Went on to say that is because he could claim that mom wouldn't allow him to see the child so he didn't have a choice but not to be there? Any truth to this??? My situation is like this, I am really giving the short version here. I have a son who is 5. Dad is not involved. Last saw child for a visit at 1st birthday, saw child briefly when he signed consent for a passport in oct 09. No court orders for support or otherwise. Could call us if he wanted but does not. He is on the BC and we signed AOP. I did call him in March of this year, he asked nothing about his son but did complain of getting fired from a job he had and blamed it on him being a white guy at a predominately black factory. I told him about our son he had no questions. I said that if he found a job, and got clean when we return we could possibly set up some sort of visitation. Last month he had the cops called on him because he was stealing from his sisters purse, got caught by his nephew who is 19 and they got into a fight. He was asked to leave for the night by the police. My husband would like to adopt and we had thought we could petition on the grounds of abandonment, unless there is a miracle in dads life he will be the same when we return as he is now, unemployed, a thief and into pain pills and alcohol. So could dads "actions" be considered abandonment or not because of there being no court orders for visitation or otherwise?? Thanks in advance for your time!!

 

[Proserpina]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TX

I was just reading through some posts and saw that a fathers rights cannot be terminated due to abandonment if there are no visitation orders. Went on to say that is because he could claim that mom wouldn't allow him to see the child so he didn't have a choice but not to be there? Any truth to this???

Yeap. That's accurate in the majority of states; there generally needs to be both child support and visitation orders in place before the abandonment clock starts ticking.

My situation is like this, I am really giving the short version here. I have a son who is 5. Dad is not involved. Last saw child for a visit at 1st birthday, saw child briefly when he signed consent for a passport in oct 09. No court orders for support or otherwise. Could call us if he wanted but does not. He is on the BC and we signed AOP. I did call him in March of this year, he asked nothing about his son but did complain of getting fired from a job he had and blamed it on him being a white guy at a predominately black factory. I told him about our son he had no questions. I said that if he found a job, and got clean when we return we could possibly set up some sort of visitation. Last month he had the cops called on him because he was stealing from his sisters purse, got caught by his nephew who is 19 and they got into a fight. He was asked to leave for the night by the police. My husband would like to adopt and we had thought we could petition on the grounds of abandonment, unless there is a miracle in dads life he will be the same when we return as he is now, unemployed, a thief and into pain pills and alcohol. So could dads "actions" be considered abandonment or not because of there being no court orders for visitation or otherwise?? Thanks in advance for your time!!

Did you try asking Dad if he'd be willing to give consent to the adoption?

ETA: This is an attorney's website - ignore that part - but it's excellent information on abandonment in Texas http://www.texasfamilylawyers.com/Articles/termination.html

 

[LdiJ]

Yeap. That's accurate in the majority of states; there generally needs to be both child support and visitation orders in place before the abandonment clock starts ticking.




Did you try asking Dad if he'd be willing to give consent to the adoption?

ETA: This is an attorney's website - ignore that part - but it's excellent information on abandonment in Texas Family Law, Child Custody & Divorce Attorney/Lawyer - Dallas & Houston Texas - Holmes, Diggs, Eames & Puhl

That isn't accurate in any of the states that I am familiar with. I have also never seen that opinon expressed here before either, unless I just missed it.

I know that it has been stated that you cannot terminate a parent's rights on the basis of abandonment if paternity has not been established, however I know that is not accurate for all states either.

OP, get yourself a consult with a local adoption attorney. NOT a family law attorney, an adoption attorney. That will get you the best answers.

 

[Silverplum]

That isn't accurate in any of the states that I am familiar with. I have also never seen that opinon expressed here before either, unless I just missed it.

I know that it has been stated that you cannot terminate a parent's rights on the basis of abandonment if paternity has not been established, however I know that is not accurate for all states either.

OP, get yourself a consult with a local adoption attorney. NOT a family law attorney, an adoption attorney. That will get you the best answers.

You missed it.

Regardless, TX has its own laws and rules. Working with a local adoption attorney is the only way to go.

 

[Proserpina]

WA is one such state.

(Yes, you missed it - it's been mentioned here not infrequently, and by quite a few other seniors ).

Even when paternity is established, the abandonment clock won't start ticking unless there is at least an order of support established; prior to that Dad doesn't have any obligation to visit OR provide child support and thus can fight any attempt at TPR based on abandonment.

If I get chance later I'll dig up some other info.

 

[LdiJ]

WA is one such state.

(Yes, you missed it - it's been mentioned here not infrequently, and by quite a few other seniors ).

Even when paternity is established, the abandonment clock won't start ticking unless there is at least an order of support established; prior to that Dad doesn't have any obligation to visit OR provide child support and thus can fight any attempt at TPR based on abandonment.

If I get chance later I'll dig up some other info.

I really think that's bad law.

A father could skip town before the baby was born to try to avoid being able to be served for child support, and a TPR could never happen...not even 10 years later?

That's potentially unfair to the child.

 

[Silverplum]

I really think that's bad law.

A father could skip town before the baby was born to try to avoid being able to be served for child support, and a TPR could never happen...not even 10 years later?

That's potentially unfair to the child.

I think it's comparably fair when one considers that MOM can move to another state before the baby is born, never notify Dad, and keep the child to herself if she chooses. Or she could stay hidden for ten years and then pounce the child support card upon him.

And I do believe you have urged several pregnant posters to run for another state, quickly, before she gave birth in Dad's state.

Any of those scenarios is "potentially unfair to the child," also, because it deprives the child of the father's care...and of his financial support.

Fair's how you see it, I guess.

 

[Proserpina]

I really think that's bad law.

A father could skip town before the baby was born to try to avoid being able to be served for child support, and a TPR could never happen...not even 10 years later?

That's potentially unfair to the child.

Avoidance of service isn't going to prevent an eventual order for child support...not in this state

 

[proud_parent]

A father could skip town before the baby was born to try to avoid being able to be served for child support, and a TPR could never happen...not even 10 years later?

Who said that? "Abandonment" is merely one of several grounds for a TPR. Several states have separate grounds (failure to maintain contact, extreme parental disinterest) that may suffice in that case.

 

[Finished2010]

# voluntarily left the child alone or in the possession of another without providing adequate support of the child and remained away for a period of at least six months.

Ok first let me thank you guys for the advice and information. Secondly Texas law seems kind of vague in the way that it doesn't mention anything as far as needing visitation/ support orders to determine abandonment. I currently live outside of the United States, we PCS here in November of last year. I plan to do nothing for the time being I just would like to know more about what challenges we will face once we are stateside again, that will not happen until 2012. So I have 2 years to educate myself so I can fully understand the lawyer lingo. I am here a lot, I usually dont post or reply just read. I have read several posts by fathers who are wishing to fight an adoption issue, I pay extra close attention to the ones from Texas and WOW, Texas seems to be a breeding ground for uninterested fathers, lol. Not meant to offend. I have emailed a few atty in Texas with my questions but never not once have I gotten a reply. I keep seeing " extreme parental disinterest" but have yet to find a solid definition for what that would mean. My son is now 5 and will be 7 when we return, I know that my sons father is not going to change. I will admit that he isnt a "bad" person but he is very much irresponsible. He will be almost 40 when we return to the states, I really did try at first to have him involved he made it very difficult. I got married and he lost what little interest he had to begin with. He lives with his sister who happens to be my mothers best friend, I talk to her often and he is there and he never asks to speak to me concerning our son. If anyone finds anything that speaks to what that could be considered please let me know. My husband loves my son, my son loves my husband. My son has a bond with my husband. My husband has been "daddy" since my son was a little over a year old. I have told my son that he has another daddy and my husband is his step dad but he has no reaction to this just an ok. Dads whole family is just absurd. Even his sister my mothers friend. They all smoke pot take pills the sister and mother have prescriptions and see multiple doctors to get their fix every month, that's how dad gets his pills. They fight all the time and "disown" each other once a month usually over an argument about the pills. I talk to the sister as it keeps me informed on dad. I sure picked a winner to have a child with, hindsight is 20/20. So if anyone finds any information or suggestions the advice is always welcome. As I said I have a lot of time to learn all I can, oh and yes I have asked dad a few times to sign away his rights, he gives his " I am the father my son is all I have speech" no dice there. I will continue to read all I can find, knowledge is power. Thanks again sorry so long, I tend to get a little emotional over this, sorry.

 

[LdiJ]

# voluntarily left the child alone or in the possession of another without providing adequate support of the child and remained away for a period of at least six months.

Ok first let me thank you guys for the advice and information. Secondly Texas law seems kind of vague in the way that it doesn't mention anything as far as needing visitation/ support orders to determine abandonment. I currently live outside of the United States, we PCS here in November of last year. I plan to do nothing for the time being I just would like to know more about what challenges we will face once we are stateside again, that will not happen until 2012. So I have 2 years to educate myself so I can fully understand the lawyer lingo. I am here a lot, I usually dont post or reply just read. I have read several posts by fathers who are wishing to fight an adoption issue, I pay extra close attention to the ones from Texas and WOW, Texas seems to be a breeding ground for uninterested fathers, lol. Not meant to offend. I have emailed a few atty in Texas with my questions but never not once have I gotten a reply. I keep seeing " extreme parental disinterest" but have yet to find a solid definition for what that would mean. My son is now 5 and will be 7 when we return, I know that my sons father is not going to change. I will admit that he isnt a "bad" person but he is very much irresponsible. He will be almost 40 when we return to the states, I really did try at first to have him involved he made it very difficult. I got married and he lost what little interest he had to begin with. He lives with his sister who happens to be my mothers best friend, I talk to her often and he is there and he never asks to speak to me concerning our son. If anyone finds anything that speaks to what that could be considered please let me know. My husband loves my son, my son loves my husband. My son has a bond with my husband. My husband has been "daddy" since my son was a little over a year old. I have told my son that he has another daddy and my husband is his step dad but he has no reaction to this just an ok. Dads whole family is just absurd. Even his sister my mothers friend. They all smoke pot take pills the sister and mother have prescriptions and see multiple doctors to get their fix every month, that's how dad gets his pills. They fight all the time and "disown" each other once a month usually over an argument about the pills. I talk to the sister as it keeps me informed on dad. I sure picked a winner to have a child with, hindsight is 20/20. So if anyone finds any information or suggestions the advice is always welcome. As I said I have a lot of time to learn all I can, oh and yes I have asked dad a few times to sign away his rights, he gives his " I am the father my son is all I have speech" no dice there. I will continue to read all I can find, knowledge is power. Thanks again sorry so long, I tend to get a little emotional over this, sorry.

I really think that you should get a consult with an adoption attorney in the state where you have technical legal residency. Be prepared to pay for the consult via credit card or in advance.