how much evidence?

[cerveza]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ky

I was wondering, how strong is this case - neighbors call cops to complain about someone (my friend) throwing a bottle on their roof in the middle of the night. By the time cops get there my two friends have left, just me (and my parents who woke up by the noise too) there. I told cops I didn't know what happened. The cops said the neighbors said it woke them up so they obviously didn't see it. And no one else saw it. I didn't even see it. The neighbors told cops that they had complained to my parents the week before cos of noise and my friends walking across their yard. So cops decided the bottle came from us I guess.

Now I'm charged with disorderly conduct (just me, not my friends - I didn't say anything to cops about it) and i'm not sure what to do...
I told my parents I didn't do it, but I didn't tell them who did.

They also did a breath test that I failed and gave me MIP too (even tho i wasn't actually IP at the time, I was just an M). I'm on this diversion thing already (I know this is bad).
Can I fight this MIP thing any way? I was standing in the kitchen of my parents house with my parents and wasn't in possession of anything....

My parents want me to tell them and cops or whatever what happened and get my friend in trouble. But what happens with me then, will they drop it against me or will they charge me anyway just because I was there?

If they can't prove I did it and if I don't say anything then they can't charge anyone else right?

 

[Antigone*]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ky

I was wondering, how strong is this case - neighbors call cops to complain about someone (my friend) throwing a bottle on their roof in the middle of the night. By the time cops get there my two friends have left, just me (and my parents who woke up by the noise too) there. I told cops I didn't know what happened. The cops said the neighbors said it woke them up so they obviously didn't see it. And no one else saw it. I didn't even see it. The neighbors told cops that they had complained to my parents the week before cos of noise and my friends walking across their yard. So cops decided the bottle came from us I guess.

Now I'm charged with disorderly conduct (just me, not my friends - I didn't say anything to cops about it) and i'm not sure what to do...
I told my parents I didn't do it, but I didn't tell them who did.

They also did a breath test that I failed and gave me MIP too (even tho i wasn't actually IP at the time, I was just an M). I'm on this diversion thing already (I know this is bad).
Can I fight this MIP thing any way? I was standing in the kitchen of my parents house with my parents and wasn't in possession of anything....

My parents want me to tell them and cops or whatever what happened and get my friend in trouble. But what happens with me then, will they drop it against me or will they charge me anyway just because I was there?

If they can't prove I did it and if I don't say anything then they can't charge anyone else right?

If you tested positive for any alcohol, there will be no getting around the MIP. You had to have been in possession because it didn't just miraculously get into your system..

Look at it this way kid. You were drinking, there was a broken bottle on your neighbor's roof. Hmmmm ...see where I'm going with this???

Don't talk to the police without an attorney present. You are skating on thin ice as it is.

 

[stealth2]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? ky

I was wondering, how strong is this case - neighbors call cops to complain about someone (my friend) throwing a bottle on their roof in the middle of the night. By the time cops get there my two friends have left, just me (and my parents who woke up by the noise too) there. I told cops I didn't know what happened. The cops said the neighbors said it woke them up so they obviously didn't see it. And no one else saw it. I didn't even see it. The neighbors told cops that they had complained to my parents the week before cos of noise and my friends walking across their yard. So cops decided the bottle came from us I guess.

Now I'm charged with disorderly conduct (just me, not my friends - I didn't say anything to cops about it) and i'm not sure what to do...
I told my parents I didn't do it, but I didn't tell them who did.

They also did a breath test that I failed and gave me MIP too (even tho i wasn't actually IP at the time, I was just an M). I'm on this diversion thing already (I know this is bad).
Can I fight this MIP thing any way? I was standing in the kitchen of my parents house with my parents and wasn't in possession of anything....

My parents want me to tell them and cops or whatever what happened and get my friend in trouble. But what happens with me then, will they drop it against me or will they charge me anyway just because I was there?

If they can't prove I did it and if I don't say anything then they can't charge anyone else right?

Geez, kid - you can't even keep your story straight within one post. So.... were your parents actually asleep, or were you all shooting the breeze in the kitchen when you heard the bottle on the neighbor's roof? I suspect the former as otherwise your parents would have told the cops that you were inside the house with them, all three of you awake, and that you were NOT responsible for what happened. But they can't do that, now can they?

You WERE in possession - you had alcohol in your system. They don't need to see you with a bottle of beer, Ripple or Thunderbird in your hand. All they need is your BAC.

At this point, you are on the hook. The cops have a kid (with prior experience with the legal system) who's been drinking w/no credible alibi and a bottle of booze on the neighbor's roof. They're not going to look much further. SO your friends get off scott-free, while you take the fall for them. And since you're already on a diversion program? Expect the court to take a harder line this time. How good ARE these friends? Worth the consequences you're likely to face?

 

[cerveza]

Look at it this way kid. You were drinking, there was a broken bottle on your neighbor's roof. Hmmmm ...see where I'm going with this???

Yeah, but isn't that just an assumption? Don't they need to prove something? How does that prove disorderly conduct?

If I did go and say, well this is what happened. Would I still be charged? I wasn't right there when it happened, didn't encourage anyone or anything like that...

 

[cerveza]

Geez, kid - you can't even keep your story straight within one post. So.... were your parents actually asleep, or were you all shooting the breeze in the kitchen when you heard the bottle on the neighbor's roof?

"I was standing in the kitchen of my parents house with my parents and wasn't in possession of anything...." at the time of the breath test and MIP. Is what I mean. .

You WERE in possession - you had alcohol in your system. They don't need to see you with a bottle of beer, Ripple or Thunderbird in your hand. All they need is your BAC.

Where is this in writing? All I've ever seen is 'shall not possess alcoholic beverages'....so where in law is the explanation of 'possess'?....
I'm reading from here...

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/krs/244-00/085.pdf

And since you're already on a diversion program? Expect the court to take a harder line this time. How good ARE these friends? Worth the consequences you're likely to face?

Well I didn't do it. They're not my consequences to take. And it's not my job to figure out who did it.

Are we still in an innocent until proven guilty country? So how exactly am I proven guilty based on what I've said? It's not up to me to prove I didn't do it. And I had the right to remain silent so I did that. My understanding of all of this is correct right?
(I'm only talking about disorderly conduct by now, by the way...., the MIP...I'm just trying to get out off)

 

[CdwJava]

The state will have to show at trial that you are guilty of the charges alleged. If they cannot do so beyond a reasonable doubt, then the court will be obligated to find you not guilty. However, it would seem they can make at least a circumstantial case, but your attorney can certainly argue for reasonable doubt.

If it goes to trial, you will have to pay for a pricey attorney.

Take this as a life lesson ... don't drink until you are 21, and when you DO drink, do so responsibly and in such a way that your neighbors are not harmed or disturbed.

 

[cerveza]

However, it would seem they can make at least a circumstantial case, but your attorney can certainly argue for reasonable doubt.

Really? Is that really enough for a circumstantial case?

If some guy in a car steals gas from a gas station (with broken security cameras) are you just gonna stop the first guy in a car with gas in his tank and say "got him!"?

Because it seems to me that the cops saw it was an alcohol bottle and just found the first person they could with alcohol in their system.....and said 'got him!'

If it goes to trial, you will have to pay for a pricey attorney.

Well...don't I already risk messing up diversion and getting resentenced or something for that as well as MIP - I don't really need to be taking a disorderly conduct along with it do I??? Wouldn't I get even more screwed over?

Why should I just accept it?

And can someone answer the question that I keep trying to ask, maybe not very well.

Would I still get charged with disorderly conduct anyway, just for being there, if I came out with the truth anyway?

I guess what I mean is, if all 3 of us were still hanging around when the cops arrived, would all 3 of us have been charged with disorderly conduct, or just the person who did it, if they'd said 'yeah that was me'.

 

[CdwJava]

Really? Is that really enough for a circumstantial case?

It certainly could be.

The question is, would a jury by all the circumstances as pointing to your guilt? And when coupled with your MIP (since you consumed alcohol, I presume that is the same offense in your state) it is an assumption that the trier of fact might be able to make.

It is not the strongest case for disorderly conduct, but possible. They certainly would seem to have a good case for MIP, however. Perhaps you can consider a plea deal to that lesser offense.

If some guy in a car steals gas from a gas station (with broken security cameras) are you just gonna stop the first guy in a car with gas in his tank and say "got him!"?

You REALLY think that analogy is even close? Really?

Because it seems to me that the cops saw it was an alcohol bottle and just found the first person they could with alcohol in their system.....and said 'got him!'

It doesn't mean they were wrong, does it?

But, it is the state that has to prove their case, you do not have to prove your innocence.

Would I still get charged with disorderly conduct anyway, just for being there, if I came out with the truth anyway?

You might, yes.

I guess what I mean is, if all 3 of us were still hanging around when the cops arrived, would all 3 of us have been charged with disorderly conduct, or just the person who did it, if they'd said 'yeah that was me'.

The problem is, apparently YOU were the only one there and YOU have not dimed off who the others were. So, since it may be logical to assume that someone from your place was making a ruckus and someone tossed the bottle, if there is no one else to pin it on ... guess who buys the charge?

Once again, that does not mean you will go to trial on the charge, but the police can certainly make the allegation and see where it goes.

In the future, wait until you are of age, and then drink responsibly.

 

[cerveza]

You REALLY think that analogy is even close? Really?

I stand by it

It doesn't mean they were wrong, does it?

In this case. Yes. Yes it does.

So, since it may be logical to assume that someone from your place was making a ruckus and someone tossed the bottle, if there is no one else to pin it on ... guess who buys the charge?

There was no....ruckusing coming from our house that night. There's not even anything to connect our house to it (just the neighbor pointing out to the cops that we'd been noisy the week before). Only noise was the bottle. Coulda been anyone walking past...

Once again, that does not mean you will go to trial on the charge, but the police can certainly make the allegation and see where it goes.

What do you mean? Do you mean the police or someone could still drop it before a trial?

It seems to me like there's not much of a case, so...if I make it go to trial could that encourage them to drop it instead... if they see that I don't want to just go along with it?

If I deny the charge do they HAVE to take it to trial or might they then decide to drop it instead of having to try and prove it on crappy circumstantial evidence? (...it kinda seems like a waste of a court's time...)

 

[CdwJava]

There was no....ruckusing coming from our house that night. There's not even anything to connect our house to it (just the neighbor pointing out to the cops that we'd been noisy the week before). Only noise was the bottle. Coulda been anyone walking past...

Even if true, it sounds as if looking at you was a reasonable action and as such, if they found you had been drinking in violation of the law, you now have that charge to contend with even if they do not pursue a disorderly conduct offense.

What do you mean? Do you mean the police or someone could still drop it before a trial?

The prosecutor can always choose not to pursue one or more of the charges, or even modify them prior to the arraignment.

It seems to me like there's not much of a case, so...if I make it go to trial could that encourage them to drop it instead... if they see that I don't want to just go along with it?

It is impossible to predict the behavior of prosecutors we do not know.

But, it would seem the MIP is pretty solid, so I would not be surprised to see an offer on the table to plead to the MIP in exchange for dropping the disorderly charge.

 

[cerveza]

Even if true,

What do you mean 'even if true'? lol. yeah, I made all that part up.
No, we weren't even at the house to make a ruckus, we'd been off making a ruckus somewhere else and had just gotten to my house. We were being quiet. I did tell them on the way, while wandering towards my house from the other direction of those neighbors, those ones came complaining so shut up.

But, it would seem the MIP is pretty solid, so I would not be surprised to see an offer on the table to plead to the MIP in exchange for dropping the disorderly charge.

hmmmm. ok. MIP still sucks (see ya later license I think) but at least I did it.
And I'm kind of worried about the whole diversion thing too