fair alimony

[stresseddivorce]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

My wife and i have been married for 14 years and are going through a divorce now. I earn around $130000/yr. she has not worked in 12 years but just started working at a $12/hr job part time(15 hours/week). We have two children 12 and 8. I am offering her the house-which has about $100000 of equity, pay off credit cards(about $20000) and also assume kids dental,medical and religious expenses beyond insurance, which i will also pay. She wants $5500/month(inclusive of child support and alimony) until my son turns 18, then $4000 inclusive, until my daughter turns 18. This seems high to me. She basically will cover bills with the $5500/month but how much am i really responsible for?

Thanks

D

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

My wife and i have been married for 14 years and are going through a divorce now. I earn around $130000/yr. she has not worked in 12 years but just started working at a $12/hr job part time(15 hours/week). We have two children 12 and 8. I am offering her the house-which has about $100000 of equity, pay off credit cards(about $20000) and also assume kids dental,medical and religious expenses beyond insurance, which i will also pay. She wants $5500/month(inclusive of child support and alimony) until my son turns 18, then $4000 inclusive, until my daughter turns 18. This seems high to me. She basically will cover bills with the $5500/month but how much am i really responsible for?

Thanks

D

She is going to be entitled to 1/2 of the marital assets, and be responsible for 1/2 of the marital debts. However you end up dividing it (you take on the debt and she gets slightly less of the assets) is fine, as long as it nets out to 50/50.

However, giving someone a house with 100k equity is all good and well, but that person still has to be able to pay the mortgage and the bills, or its not particularly a good deal for them. It might be better to sell the home so that the person can move into something more affordable.

Child support is going to go by state guidelines. Google an online child support calculator to determine an approximate amount of child support that would have to be paid.

Alimony is the item that is more negotiable. A worst case scenario (for you) would be to take the difference between her salary and yours, and then deduct the child support by that amount, and then divide the difference in two.

Example:

If you make 130k per year and she makes 25k per year, the difference is 95k.

If the child support calculator says that you pay 25k per year in child support, then the difference then becomes 70k. 1/2 of 70k is 35k. That would be your worst case scenario for alimony.

As a side note, you should be aware that alimony is tax deductible to you, and taxable income to her. Child support is not deductible.

What she is asking for seems to be a bit high. However, you acknowledge that she needs that to pay the bills. That is a high amount of bills. It would seem to me that the house should probably be sold so that she can use the equity as a downpayment on something more affordable.

 

[Bali Hai]

She is going to be entitled to 1/2 of the marital assets, and be responsible for 1/2 of the marital debts. However you end up dividing it (you take on the debt and she gets slightly less of the assets) is fine, as long as it nets out to 50/50.

However, giving someone a house with 100k equity is all good and well, but that person still has to be able to pay the mortgage and the bills, or its not particularly a good deal for them. It might be better to sell the home so that the person can move into something more affordable.

Child support is going to go by state guidelines. Google an online child support calculator to determine an approximate amount of child support that would have to be paid.

Alimony is the item that is more negotiable. A worst case scenario (for you) would be to take the difference between her salary and yours, and then deduct the child support by that amount, and then divide the difference in two.

Example:

If you make 130k per year and she makes 25k per year, the difference is 95k.

If the child support calculator says that you pay 25k per year in child support, then the difference then becomes 70k. 1/2 of 70k is 35k. That would be your worst case scenario for alimony.

As a side note, you should be aware that alimony is tax deductible to you, and taxable income to her. Child support is not deductible.

What she is asking for seems to be a bit high. However, you acknowledge that she needs that to pay the bills. That is a high amount of bills. It would seem to me that the house should probably be sold so that she can use the equity as a downpayment on something more affordable.

I agree, speaking to just the alimony part of this, if she earns 25k per year,
1k per month alimony should give her a living wage until the children reach majority.

 

[LdiJ]

I agree, speaking to just the alimony part of this, if she earns 25k per year,
1k per month alimony should give her a living wage until the children reach majority.

Bali, don't mix apples and oranges.

This isn't a single person. Its a person with children and a mortgage that her stbx wants to turn over to her.

1k per month might be plenty if the house is sold so that she can purchase something more affordable. However dad is still going to have to pay child support. Neither of us have run any numbers to see how much of what she is asking for is child support.

 

[stresseddivorce]

She is going to be entitled to 1/2 of the marital assets, and be responsible for 1/2 of the marital debts. However you end up dividing it (you take on the debt and she gets slightly less of the assets) is fine, as long as it nets out to 50/50.

However, giving someone a house with 100k equity is all good and well, but that person still has to be able to pay the mortgage and the bills, or its not particularly a good deal for them. It might be better to sell the home so that the person can move into something more affordable.

Child support is going to go by state guidelines. Google an online child support calculator to determine an approximate amount of child support that would have to be paid.

Alimony is the item that is more negotiable. A worst case scenario (for you) would be to take the difference between her salary and yours, and then deduct the child support by that amount, and then divide the difference in two.

Example:

If you make 130k per year and she makes 25k per year, the difference is 95k.

If the child support calculator says that you pay 25k per year in child support, then the difference then becomes 70k. 1/2 of 70k is 35k. That would be your worst case scenario for alimony.

As a side note, you should be aware that alimony is tax deductible to you, and taxable income to her. Child support is not deductible.

What she is asking for seems to be a bit high. However, you acknowledge that she needs that to pay the bills. That is a high amount of bills. It would seem to me that the house should probably be sold so that she can use the equity as a downpayment on something more affordable.

thanks for the feedback. i have discussed with her that she should sell the house but she does not want to in this market. I told her that although she may get less for the house, she will also find another place for less. Our mortgage with ins. and taxes is $2000 per month. She feels that if she moves she will spend at least $1500 per month in a rental. I also feel it is too high but at this point we are at a standstill. I have to balance out what it would cost to go to court as opposed to giving her more money. If we have to go to court, what could i expect the costs to be?

Thanks

d

 

[Bali Hai]

thanks for the feedback. i have discussed with her that she should sell the house but she does not want to in this market. I told her that although she may get less for the house, she will also find another place for less. Our mortgage with ins. and taxes is $2000 per month. She feels that if she moves she will spend at least $1500 per month in a rental. I also feel it is too high but at this point we are at a standstill. I have to balance out what it would cost to go to court as opposed to giving her more money. If we have to go to court, what could i expect the costs to be?

Thanks

d

The costs will be astronomical if you don't get a lawyer. She has obviously decided that you are going to fund her financial future indefinitely.

 

[mistoffolees]

She is going to be entitled to 1/2 of the marital assets, and be responsible for 1/2 of the marital debts. However you end up dividing it (you take on the debt and she gets slightly less of the assets) is fine, as long as it nets out to 50/50.

However, giving someone a house with 100k equity is all good and well, but that person still has to be able to pay the mortgage and the bills, or its not particularly a good deal for them. It might be better to sell the home so that the person can move into something more affordable.

Child support is going to go by state guidelines. Google an online child support calculator to determine an approximate amount of child support that would have to be paid.

Alimony is the item that is more negotiable. A worst case scenario (for you) would be to take the difference between her salary and yours, and then deduct the child support by that amount, and then divide the difference in two.

Example:

If you make 130k per year and she makes 25k per year, the difference is 95k.

If the child support calculator says that you pay 25k per year in child support, then the difference then becomes 70k. 1/2 of 70k is 35k. That would be your worst case scenario for alimony.

As a side note, you should be aware that alimony is tax deductible to you, and taxable income to her. Child support is not deductible.

What she is asking for seems to be a bit high. However, you acknowledge that she needs that to pay the bills. That is a high amount of bills. It would seem to me that the house should probably be sold so that she can use the equity as a downpayment on something more affordable.

Her request is sky high, not just a little high. The above calculation is incomplete. They're going to consider the taxes (you're undoubtedly paying a lot more taxes on $130 K than she will be on $25 K, even with the deductibility of alimony). They'll also consider living expenses and other factors.

Alimony rarely splits the difference between one person's net and the other down the middle.

There's enough money involved that you need to see an attorney.

 

[LdiJ]

Her request is sky high, not just a little high. The above calculation is incomplete. They're going to consider the taxes (you're undoubtedly paying a lot more taxes on $130 K than she will be on $25 K, even with the deductibility of alimony). They'll also consider living expenses and other factors.

Alimony rarely splits the difference between one person's net and the other down the middle.

There's enough money involved that you need to see an attorney.

I just ran some numbers on an FL child support calculator and child support alone will run about 2500.00. So the amount of alimony she is asking for is about 3000.00. That is high, but I am not sure its sky high since its tax deductible to him and taxable to her.

I was giving him a worst case scenario. He also stated she needed that much to cover the bills. I state that if the bills were so high, the house really needed to be sold.

 

[mistoffolees]

I just ran some numbers on an FL child support calculator and child support alone will run about 2500.00.

Your numbers aren't even close. The FL calculator uses NET income. If you assume that his net is 70% of gross and her net is 80% of gross, the child support is only about $1700 per month. My figures may be conservative, so it could be even lower.

AND, if he's got the kids on his health insurance, that reduces his payment further.

Furthermore, even your estimate of $3 K per month in alimony for the next 10 years is absurd for a 14 year marriage. The real number which would be closer to $4 K per month is even more ridiculous.

More likely, he'll pay child support per guidelines (Florida Child Support Calculator - AllLaw.com) per guidelines. Given her $25 K income and his $130 K, I would venture something more like $2 K per month for 4-5 years. Maybe $2500 for the first year or two and then dropping.

 

[stresseddivorce]

this has been very eye opening for me. to me, i figured around $3500 per month gross would be sufficient but frankly she could not pay all the bills with that. i feel like crap because i dont want my kids to suffer but i also need to live. Currently i moved out to share a place with a family member since it is not realistic to pay a high rent but i still have to share the rent, pay for my car and insurance as well as incidentals. My income is not consistent, in that i could make $10k one month and $6000 another month since I am self employed.
In this type of situation how much can attorney bills build up to . We do not hate each other. I didnt leave for another woman but we just grew apart, so we are not fighting NOW, although this will eventually lead to fights based on the money.

thanks

D

 

[LdiJ]

this has been very eye opening for me. to me, i figured around $3500 per month gross would be sufficient but frankly she could not pay all the bills with that. i feel like crap because i dont want my kids to suffer but i also need to live. Currently i moved out to share a place with a family member since it is not realistic to pay a high rent but i still have to share the rent, pay for my car and insurance as well as incidentals. My income is not consistent, in that i could make $10k one month and $6000 another month since I am self employed.
In this type of situation how much can attorney bills build up to . We do not hate each other. I didnt leave for another woman but we just grew apart, so we are not fighting NOW, although this will eventually lead to fights based on the money.

thanks

D

Seriously, please try to convince your wife of the wisdom of selling the house and using the equity to purchase a more affordable home. I bet that with that size down payment she could get her mortgage down to under 1000.00, and utilities would be less expensive as well. I am sure that she could get the bills down to where 3500.00 would handle them.

That is really the only sensible way to go. You should also encourage her to go to school to either get a degree or refresh her job skills so that she can end up making more than 12.00 an hour.

 

[stresseddivorce]

That is the direction I will try and convince her to go in, otherwise we will have to go to court. One more question, if she goes back to school, am I responsible for paying for that?

thanks

d

 

[LdiJ]

That is the direction I will try and convince her to go in, otherwise we will have to go to court. One more question, if she goes back to school, am I responsible for paying for that?

thanks

d

No, you wouldn't be responsible for that.

One way that might help convince her, is for you to work up a mock tax return showing what your true net income would be before child support, and then your net after child support. (as single with one dependent, claiming the alimony deduction, perhaps at several different levels of alimony)

Then a mock tax return showing what her tax liability would be on her income plus the alimony that she wants. (as HOH with one dependent)

You might want to get a tax professional to help you work up the figures in an understandable format. Its off season so that's unlikely to cost you much.

It will actually help both of you realize what net income you will have to work with when all is said and done. Remember that you will be paying medicare taxes on the full amount of your pay.

The more you can show her, realistically, how much money there is going to be to work with, the more reasonable she will likely become.

Also, if you can convince her to take a little less child support, in exchange for a greater amount of alimony, you might be able to actually reduce your total net outflow, because of the tax savings for you.

Also, if you can discuss these issues with her, and show her figures provided by a neutral source, without getting your attorney involved, it might save you some money on your legal fees, as well.

The bottom line is that unless the two of you were living well below your means, there is no way that she is going to be able to maintain your existing lifestyle, in your existing home, and you be able to support yourself as well. You are also going to have tax ramifications in this divorce, if for no other reason than you will no longer be able to file as married filing jointly. You will be filing as single and the tax brackets are very different. The alimony deduction will offset some of that, but its still going to factor in.

The more knowledge the two of you have before decisions are set in stone, the better decisions will be made.

 

[stresseddivorce]

thanks for your detailed explanation. we definitely have a lot of work to do. my wife and i sat with a divorce mediator about one year ago, and she didnt like what he had to offer which was just slightly less that what i originally offered. i keep telling her the numbers but all she looks at is what our current costs are. At this point unless she agrees to sell the house, it looks like we will have to go to court. the more i look at the numbers all of you are stating, the more i realize that i was giving way too much and that i would not be able to live as well under those circumstances.