Is there anything I can do?

[gatorfan1]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

I have been divorced from my ex-wife for nearly 11 years. Before we divorced, we were co-signed on a mortgage together. In the divorce papers, it states that I have no rights to the property but also I am to be held harmless as she is responsible for the debt. I signed a quit claim deed. Here it is 11 years later and she has made the payment on time only a handful of times, and I mean probably ONE hand. My credit is bombarded each time she is 30/60/even 90 days late.

Of course, the mortgage company doesn't care about what the divorce decree says, the only way to get my name off is if she refinances. We all know the economy is in the tank right now but even if it wasn't, I can't imagine anyone refinancing her with her credit. (She just had a vehicle respossesed)

My question, is there anything that can be done to get me off the loan? I was just recently turned down for a refinance on my own home due to the late payments made by my ex, so obviously I am not being held harmless per the divorce decree. But my attorney in a separate child support issue told me that a judge could not force her to refinance. And like I said, no one would touch her anyway.

Am I forced to be deal with her delinquency each month or until the mortgage company finally gets fed up and forecloses? Either way me and my credit is scr*wed. I'd appreciate any advice.

 

[Zigner]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

I have been divorced from my ex-wife for nearly 11 years. Before we divorced, we were co-signed on a mortgage together. In the divorce papers, it states that I have no rights to the property but also I am to be held harmless as she is responsible for the debt. I signed a quit claim deed. Here it is 11 years later and she has made the payment on time only a handful of times, and I mean probably ONE hand. My credit is bombarded each time she is 30/60/even 90 days late.

Of course, the mortgage company doesn't care about what the divorce decree says, the only way to get my name off is if she refinances. We all know the economy is in the tank right now but even if it wasn't, I can't imagine anyone refinancing her with her credit. (She just had a vehicle respossesed)

My question, is there anything that can be done to get me off the loan? I was just recently turned down for a refinance on my own home due to the late payments made by my ex, so obviously I am not being held harmless per the divorce decree. But my attorney in a separate child support issue told me that a judge could not force her to refinance. And like I said, no one would touch her anyway.

Am I forced to be deal with her delinquency each month or until the mortgage company finally gets fed up and forecloses? Either way me and my credit is scr*wed. I'd appreciate any advice.

Why don't YOU pay the mortgage and have her reimburse you? That will save your credit.

Beyond that, you're screwed - particularly in this economy.

 

[gatorfan1]

Why don't YOU pay the mortgage and have her reimburse you? That will save your credit.

Beyond that, you're screwed - particularly in this economy.

Unfortunately, I can't afford to pay my mortgage and bills AND hers. What gets me is that what I pay her in child support pays for her mortgage and most of her utilities. I know I have no right to say/question what she spends the money on, I gues I was just hoping she'd use it to keep a roof over our daughter's head. But thanks for the reply Zigner, I figured as much.

 

[nextwife]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Florida

I have been divorced from my ex-wife for nearly 11 years. Before we divorced, we were co-signed on a mortgage together. In the divorce papers, it states that I have no rights to the property but also I am to be held harmless as she is responsible for the debt. I signed a quit claim deed. Here it is 11 years later and she has made the payment on time only a handful of times, and I mean probably ONE hand. My credit is bombarded each time she is 30/60/even 90 days late.

Of course, the mortgage company doesn't care about what the divorce decree says, the only way to get my name off is if she refinances. We all know the economy is in the tank right now but even if it wasn't, I can't imagine anyone refinancing her with her credit. (She just had a vehicle respossesed)

My question, is there anything that can be done to get me off the loan? I was just recently turned down for a refinance on my own home due to the late payments made by my ex, so obviously I am not being held harmless per the divorce decree. But my attorney in a separate child support issue told me that a judge could not force her to refinance. And like I said, no one would touch her anyway.

Am I forced to be deal with her delinquency each month or until the mortgage company finally gets fed up and forecloses? Either way me and my credit is scr*wed. I'd appreciate any advice.

If you want a lender to hold you harmless, it is they that needs to enter into that agreement. Two people can't agree between them that a third parties' contractual enforcement rights don't exist.

Think about it, you agree to lend money to your sister to buy a car. She fails to pay you back and then says "Oh, me and my ex boyfriend decided he'd be responsible for the payments because I signed the car over to him. So you need to talk to him to get the payments. I'm not responsible anymore". You'd say, "Like heck! That was not what we agreed. I have the right to expect YOU to pay me back because it was you to whom I agreed to extend the credit."

I don't know why family law attorneys continue to do these bogus agreements and allow people to walk away thinking they are not responsible anymore! They need to really explain that the debt responsibility remains that of all the borrowers until it is paid off.

 

[gatorfan1]

If you want a lender to hold you harmless, it is they that needs to enter into that agreement. Two people can't agree between them that a third parties' contractual enforcement rights don't exist.

Think about it, you agree to lend money to your sister to buy a car. She fails to pay you back and then says "Oh, me and my ex boyfriend decided he'd be responsible for the payments because I signed the car over to him. So you need to talk to him to get the payments. I'm not responsible anymore". You'd say, "Like heck! That was not what we agreed. I have the right to expext YOU to pay me back because it was you to whom I agreed to extend the credit."

I don't know why family law attorneys continue to do these bogus agreements and allow people to walk away thinking they are not responsible anymore! They need to really expalin that the debt responsibility remains that of all the borrowers until it is paid off.

I agree Nextwife. I'm not angry with the lender. Actually I have a very good relationship with them. They call and keep me updated on if/when she makes her payments. They know they won't get money from me but technically, I am still responsible. I'm just ticked off that I was under the impression that when the divorce decree stated I was to be held harmless, since it was an Order, I would be. I never knew that wouldn't get me off the hook but guess I am for the next 20 years.

 

[mistoffolees]

I agree Nextwife. I'm not angry with the lender. Actually I have a very good relationship with them. They call and keep me updated on if/when she makes her payments. They know they won't get money from me but technically, I am still responsible. I'm just ticked off that I was under the impression that when the divorce decree stated I was to be held harmless, since it was an Order, I would be. I never knew that wouldn't get me off the hook but guess I am for the next 20 years.

Technically, you CAN be held harmless. She could be ordered to reimburse you for your losses. The problem is that it's so difficult (if not impossible) to actually define the cost of your trashed credit rating that you would not likely recover anything that way.

I am concerned about the statement that you can't get an order for her to refinance. That's only true as far as it goes. The court can not order a lender to refinance. However, the court can order her to TRY. More importantly (since she's probably trashed her credit rating badly enough that she will never get a mortgage), the court can also order the home sold if she's damaging your credit rating.

So, if it were me, I'd be back in court asking for an order for her to refinance within 30 days or, if that's not possible, for the home to be sold. That won't fix your credit rating, but it's the first step.

 

[gatorfan1]

Technically, you CAN be held harmless. She could be ordered to reimburse you for your losses. The problem is that it's so difficult (if not impossible) to actually define the cost of your trashed credit rating that you would not likely recover anything that way.

I am concerned about the statement that you can't get an order for her to refinance. That's only true as far as it goes. The court can not order a lender to refinance. However, the court can order her to TRY. More importantly (since she's probably trashed her credit rating badly enough that she will never get a mortgage), the court can also order the home sold if she's damaging your credit rating.

So, if it were me, I'd be back in court asking for an order for her to refinance within 30 days or, if that's not possible, for the home to be sold. That won't fix your credit rating, but it's the first step.

mistoffolees, thank you for that. That is an excellent suggestion. I'm wondering, is this something I could do pro se or would I need an attorney?

 

[mistoffolees]

mistoffolees, thank you for that. That is an excellent suggestion. I'm wondering, is this something I could do pro se or would I need an attorney?

My rule of thumb: "if you have to ask, then you need an attorney".

In theory, it can be done pro se, but if you mess it up, you may not be able to fix the problem. Since the divorce is final and you're only dealing with one issue, it shouldn't be too expensive to have an attorney do it right.

 

[Bali Hai]

mistoffolees, thank you for that. That is an excellent suggestion. I'm wondering, is this something I could do pro se or would I need an attorney?

Whichever way you choose to pursue this issue, keep in mind what the court is likely to be thinking when you explain that you have known about this issue for 11 years and have done nothing about it.

In fact you have enabled her behavior, and 11 years later you're asking the court to order her house sold because it's inconvienent for you to get a loan?

 

[gatorfan1]

Whichever way you choose to pursue this issue, keep in mind what the court is likely to be thinking when you explain that you have known about this issue for 11 years and have done nothing about it.

In fact you have enabled her behavior, and 11 years later you're asking the court to order her house sold because it's inconvienent for you to get a loan?

With all due respect Bali, how have I enabled her? I have asked her repeatedly to please make her payment on time. I can not afford to make the payment for her. It's not because it has become inconvienant for me to get a loan but because I was under the impression that I shouldn't have to pay for her not being an adult and paying her bills on time.

In our last trip to court two years ago when she asked for an increase in child support, the judge made the suggestion that the child support be sent directly to the lender and whatever remained would be sent to my ex. She pitched a fit over that. Unfortunately by the time it was all said and done, we had a different judge and for whatever reason, my attorney didn't push the issue. I think she was trying to get the child support issue over and done with since it'd been drug out for over three years. And even if that had/could have been ordered, that would only rectify the situation until our daughter turned 18 and child support stopped.

So, while I value your input I don't believe I have enabled her. Yes I have waited 11 years but I have finally had enough of her affecting my credit. While we may have to coparent our daughter, I shouldn't have to put up with her affecting my chances of getting a car/house/job/etc.

 

[mistoffolees]

In our last trip to court two years ago when she asked for an increase in child support, the judge made the suggestion that the child support be sent directly to the lender and whatever remained would be sent to my ex. She pitched a fit over that. Unfortunately by the time it was all said and done, we had a different judge and for whatever reason, my attorney didn't push the issue. I think she was trying to get the child support issue over and done with since it'd been drug out for over three years. And even if that had/could have been ordered, that would only rectify the situation until our daughter turned 18 and child support stopped.

Frankly, I disagree with that approach. Child support is supposed to be for the child's benefit. If the money is going to pay the mortgage, who's going to pay for the child's food, clothing, medical care, etc.

If the custodial parent can not afford to pay the mortgage, they should sell the house and rent. That's not a huge issue for a child. Having the grocery money being used to pay a mortgage is.

 

[gatorfan1]

Frankly, I disagree with that approach. Child support is supposed to be for the child's benefit. If the money is going to pay the mortgage, who's going to pay for the child's food, clothing, medical care, etc.

If the custodial parent can not afford to pay the mortgage, they should sell the house and rent. That's not a huge issue for a child. Having the grocery money being used to pay a mortgage is.

I see your point of view and I can agree with it. But as I understand it, it is both parents responsibility to support the child. My thought on paying the mortgage directly out of the child support, atleast our daughter would have a roof over her head. I worry about that when my ex gets 60 plus days behind on her mortgage. Also, like I said earlier, what I pay in child support would cover not only the mortgage but also the utilities. I'd think that the ex should be able to afford to put groceries on the table and clothes on her back as her contribution to supporting our child. Even though technically it is none of my business where the money goes, I highly doubt much of it goes towards our daughter. But nothing I can do about that. I will continue to pay what I am supposed to when I am supposed to. It's just frustrating is all. Sorry to ramble but wanted to let you know that I got your thoughts on it. Just wish there was a way to make it all work out.

 

[Zigner]

Frankly, I disagree with that approach. Child support is supposed to be for the child's benefit. If the money is going to pay the mortgage, who's going to pay for the child's food, clothing, medical care, etc.

If the custodial parent can not afford to pay the mortgage, they should sell the house and rent. That's not a huge issue for a child. Having the grocery money being used to pay a mortgage is.

C'mon misty - providing housing is ABSOLUTELY part of supporting a child...

 

[mistoffolees]

C'mon misty - providing housing is ABSOLUTELY part of supporting a child...

Yes it is - obviously.

But if OP's spouse is being completely irresponsible and not picking up her share, it could get to an extreme:

Pay the mortgage - and not have enough money for groceries or pay for groceries - and lose the house, having to rent an apartment. I think the latter is far better for the child.

Admittedly, it may not be that extreme and there are a lot of other factors. Frankly, if the ex is that bad at managing things, I'd probably be trying to get custody of the child to take it entirely out of the ex's hands, but I don't have the facts, so I don't know if that's reasonable in this case or not.

Bottom line is that dictating that the money be used to pay the mortgage means that less money (or no money) is available for other things - and some of those things (medical care, food, etc) are more urgent than a mortgage payment.

 

[Bali Hai]

With all due respect Bali, how have I enabled her? I have asked her repeatedly to please make her payment on time. I can not afford to make the payment for her. It's not because it has become inconvienant for me to get a loan but because I was under the impression that I shouldn't have to pay for her not being an adult and paying her bills on time.

In our last trip to court two years ago when she asked for an increase in child support, the judge made the suggestion that the child support be sent directly to the lender and whatever remained would be sent to my ex. She pitched a fit over that. Unfortunately by the time it was all said and done, we had a different judge and for whatever reason, my attorney didn't push the issue. I think she was trying to get the child support issue over and done with since it'd been drug out for over three years. And even if that had/could have been ordered, that would only rectify the situation until our daughter turned 18 and child support stopped.

So, while I value your input I don't believe I have enabled her. Yes I have waited 11 years but I have finally had enough of her affecting my credit. While we may have to coparent our daughter, I shouldn't have to put up with her affecting my chances of getting a car/house/job/etc.

The first time she is late with her payment you can say "please make the payment on time because it's adversely affecting my credit".

The second time she is late with her payment, you haul her butt into court in a sling for contempt and get the proceedings going to order the house sold.

Because you didn't do that, you enabled her behaviour for 11 years.

There's an old saying: "Screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice, shame on me.