Does a passenger HAVE TO show ID during traffice stop?

[BOR]

Despite the importance of their rulings, the supreme court does not make law.

They make law, it is called Common law/Judge made law/Case law.

You ever hear the phrase "legislating from the bench".

It is an analogy of such.

If you do not agree, from any court, then in a "matter of first impression", what is thier ruling, if it is not law then?

 

[StevenJ_420Law]

Steven, just out of curiousity, is that CA case law pre Hiibel or after Hiibel.

Oft cited cases for scope and brevity of the stop and investigation effectuating purpose of stop is covered by US v Place (83) Florida v Royer (83) US v Sharpe (85) and for CA: In re James (87)

CA has Brendlin v CA - but more specifically, a big difference from NV in Hiibel is CA is not a "Stop and Identify State"..ie there is no similar statute requiring the passenger to present ID... so it doesnt really apply here (obviously the officer can ask, but the question is then, what recourse does he have on refusal?)..

If there is no suspicion of a crime, he has no recourse.. I suppose other than to get testy.

 

[BOR]

You know, and I am not making this up, honest, I was at the SC building the day Hiibel was argued.

I did not sit in on the oral argument, but the SC Police officer showed me the docket.

Brown v. Texas had aleady been decided years ago, so when the man I was standing next to at the courtroom entrance said the case was about whether an officer can ask for ID and it is required, I wondered what it was.

When I got back home I checked.

Shortly after, Ohio passed thier S&I law, but it is still based on if the person is under investigation, a non element in Brown.

I did sit in on an oral argument in 1975, my 1st trip to DC. I saw some greats on the court, Thurgood Marshall, CJ Burger, Byron White, William O. Douglas, Potter Stewart, Wiiliam Rhenquist, William Brennan and Harry Blackmun.

I will never forget it.

 

[You Are Guilty]

sometimes you just get in one of those moods though and say: "I'm mad as Hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"

at some point you must simply tire of an officer using BS bullying tactics to effect a result.

Discretion is still the better part of valor, and explaining even a BS arrest to the Legal Ethics Committee is not the way I want to spend an afternoon.

And I say this having once been a passenger in a friends car who was pulled over after my first year of law school. He got out and had a nice discussion with the officer ("shut the F up and sit on the curb with your hands on your head"). I was then politely asked to exit a car by his partner, and before I could even try to open the door, he was kind enough to facilitate my exit, via the window. I was then asked to keep the back seat of his cruiser warm while they "investigated". After maybe 60 seconds of them poking around my friend's car, we were both let go with the explanation that we (both!) matched the description of the guy who "just" held up the convenience store down the street.

A few days later, I read a newspaper article about the suspect that was subsequently caught, and couldn't help but notice that he was 50 pounds lighter than me, didn't wear glasses, and oh yeah, was a totally different race. So either I met Barney Fife's real life NYPD counterpart, or was the victim of some illegal activity by the police. (I can certainly understand if this sort of crap happens to you more than once a decade, one might have a different viewpoint.)

never been subjected to the view, yet even though I held out my hands after the officer said "you want to be arrested? I can take you down right along with that guy (reference to a guy that was being stuffed right between me and the officer)."

I looked at my watch and realized it was fairly late in the evening and said, quite calmly:

"well, do you know if they have served dinner at the jail yet? It is getting kind of late and I haven't had dinner yet and I am a bit hungry. If they have already served dinner, I would rather not go but if they haven't served dinner yet, heck, I'm not doing anything else tonight." as I held out my hands for him to cuff me if he wanted to cuff me.

I slept in my own bed that night. I guess they had already served dinner

OK, I chuckled. You must have really nice jails there. Here, the jail is called The Tombs and they serve green bologna for all 3 meals. I don't even like walking past the outside of the building.

 

[justalayman]

OK, I chuckled. You must have really nice jails there. Here, the jail is called The Tombs and they serve green bologna for all 3 meals. I don't even like walking past the outside of the building.

the only time I have been in a jail was when I was involved with the construction of the jail. No home boys to chat with yet.

and even with that, I realized how fricken' uncomfortable they would be. Literally the only padding in the entire unit was a very thin pad they called a mattress but I believe they were going to eventually install a few throw pads AKA the smallest prisoners in the unit.

 

[CdwJava]

was I lawfully required to provide him my info? does he have probable cause to question a passenger during a burned-out taillight stop?

He does not need "probable cause" to ask you anything. But, no, you were under no legal obligation to identify yourself unless you were subject to arrest or citation.

 

[tranquility]

From the posts I've seen, in our enlightened age, we are no closer to the answer of the question asked at the beginning of the millennium:

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

 

[StevenJ_420Law]

From the posts I've seen, in our enlightened age, we are no closer to the answer of the question asked at the beginning of the millennium:

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Cell phone cameras

 

[tranquility]

Except in certain states.

In others, if a cop is talking with you and you suddenly whip out a cell phone, what result?

Not without some justification:

YouTube - Mobile Phone Gun - .22 caliber gun disguised as cell phone

Cell Phone Stun Guns Disguised as Cellular Phones

 

[justalayman]

Cell phone cameras

on another forum we had a poster that had installed video and audio recording equipment. Cop got fired, police department disbanded and the kid won in court for a civil rights violation if I remember correctly.

I think I'm going to make a sticker to put on my truck that says

attention; this vehicle is equipped with audio and video recording equipment. Your continued oral communication will be construed as tacit permission to record oral communications.

Just a sign, no real equipment though.

You know, the ADT theory. A sign in the yard, whether there is actually al alarm system or not tends to cause at least some burglars to move on by.

 

[tranquility]

On Instapundit the other day was an article where a guy was selling bumper stickers and magnetic door signs saying something like:

"All conversations with driver will be recorded for quality control purposes."

Info edit:
Here's the article:
http://techliberation.com/2010/05/30/police-may-be-monitored-for-quality-control-purposes/
with the phrase "Traffic stops may be monitored for quality control purposes."

 

[StevenJ_420Law]

Except in certain states.

In others, if a cop is talking with you and you suddenly whip out a cell phone, what result?

Not without some justification:

YouTube - Mobile Phone Gun - .22 caliber gun disguised as cell phone

Cell Phone Stun Guns Disguised as Cellular Phones

Thats not going to help the ole itchy trigger fingers we got around here.. especially if they are dealing with a brother.

 

[JustAPal00]

So then how is Arizona going to be able to inforce their law if they pull over a car load of Latinos they suspect to be illegals? If the only one they can legally detain for failing to provide ID is the driver, a whole lot of illegals will be walking away. In addition, many of the opponents have been arguing that if you are Latino and a passenger in a vehicle you better have your ID even if the driver is legal.

 

[BOR]

the only time I have been in a jail was when I was involved with the construction of the jail. No home boys to chat with yet.

I have never been in a jail. The class went to the Morgue once to snoop around though.


I did watch Escape from Alcatraz once though!!

 

[BOR]

So then how is Arizona going to be able to inforce their law if they pull over a car load of Latinos they suspect to be illegals? If the only one they can legally detain for failing to provide ID is the driver, a whole lot of illegals will be walking away. In addition, many of the opponents have been arguing that if you are Latino and a passenger in a vehicle you better have your ID even if the driver is legal.

Suspect or a hunch is different from "a reasonable or articulable suspicion".