Can images of US coins/bills be copyrighted?

[BobLoblaw]

How does copyright law apply to pictures of US coins or bills?

It's my understanding that any US coin design would be free from copyright. I think that any images straight from the US mint would also be free of copyright. Is that correct?

Now, if a person takes a high quality picture or scan of a US coin/bill, is that image copyrighted? What if the coin is heavily damaged, or extremely old, or an international coin?

Thanks.

 

[The Occultist]

The government cannot hold copyrights.

What is it you plan on doing with these images?

 

[FlyingRon]

A image (even by someone other than the government) of the coin or bill without any additional creative content wouldn't be subject to copyright.

There are HOWEVER, rules on printing pictures of US paper currency and stamps separate from copyright. (Must be one sided and different than the actual size, etc..).

 

[BobLoblaw]

Thanks for the replies guys.

I plan on making an online tutorial to help show people how to grade coins. Now, I will take most of the pictures myself, but it would be very helpful if I was allowed to also use images found around the web. For example, many Ebay coin auctions have decent photos, so it would be nice if I could use those photos without actually buying the coin.

How would this apply to non-US coins? Would using someone else's photo of one only be infringing on the issuer of the coin, and not the person who actually took the photo?

Also, if a coin is very well worn, that wouldn't be considered creative content, would it? If I copy an image of a one of a kind coin, it will be pretty obvious where I got the image, so I'd like to know for sure that I'm okay.

Thanks again.

 

[justalayman]

If I copy an image of a one of a kind coin, it will be pretty obvious where I got the image, so I'd like to know for sure that I'm okay.

You wouldn't be. You cannot use another's pictures even if the subject is not copyrighted. The picture itself is copyrighted and that copyright is owned, most likely, by the person that took the picture.

How would this apply to non-US coins? Would using someone else's photo of one only be infringing on the issuer of the coin, and not the person who actually took the photo?

Actually the opposite. The picture itself is copyrighted. You cannot use somebody else's artwork without their permission.

 

[BobLoblaw]

The picture itself is copyrighted and that copyright is owned, most likely, by the person that took the picture.

[the picture] without any additional creative content wouldn't be subject to copyright

OK, so who is right? The images I'm talking about certainly don't have any "creative content." If I possessed the subject matter (the coin) I could create an indistinguishable picture in 60 seconds (literally).

I'm talking about just a picture of the coin on a solid background. Or maybe just a scan of the coin in a flatbed scanner. Nothing else would be visible in the image. It seems to me that this would be considered more of a copy of the coin's artwork, than a copy of whoever took the picture.

But now I'm confused since I'm getting separate answers. Could either/both of you elaborate?

Thanks much.

 

[FlyingRon]

I'm sure Justa and I both believe we are right. Maybe Quincy will come in and break the tie.

 

[quincy]

I think both FlyingRon and justalayman are right (and The Occulist, too, but his statement is apparently not in question).

Does that help?

Any photograph taken would be the property of the photographer (absent any agreement to the contrary) and the photograph would be subject to copyright protection. However, if there is nothing in the photograph that is original or creative, there is nothing about the photo that is copyrightable. A coin is a coin is a coin.

If someone is pictured holding the coin or if the coin was part of a more elaborate photograph, that could cause problems.

Making images of coins and currency is legal as long as there is no intent to defraud or engage in counterfeiting. The government has a guideline on how currency should be photographed, as FlyingRon noted, but coins can be photographed freely.

If your use is for an educational purpose, there should be no problem using a photograph of a rare coin in your tutorial. But you could always run your tutorial plans and the photos you wish to use by an IP attorney in your area, to be sure your use is not going to create any legal issues for you in the future.

 

[BobLoblaw]

Thanks so much for everybody's replies.

I believe you guys have validated my initial feeling, and that is that I'm free to borrow any images as long as they are on a plain background and contain nothing other than a head-on shot of the coin itself.

Thanks again.

 

[quincy]

You can also google The Bridgeman Art Library, Ltd. v Corel Corporation to further validate your feeling.

 

[justalayman]

However, if there is nothing in the photograph that is original or creative, there is nothing about the photo that is copyrightable. A coin is a coin is a coin.

.

I'll concede but just for fun, what if I take the picture from an angle of 20º off of a direct on shot? What if my photo lights are arranged at 22 1/2º to the right and left of center at a height of 16" and a distance of 2' from the coin?

Is that not an expression of creativity? is not the form of the photograph original?

what if that layout of angles causes the nose of the president on the coin to take on some funny attribute. Is that not some unique characteristic that would allow a copyright of my picture?

 

[quincy]

You mean what if you are a lousy photographer?

Coins are in the public domain. Photos of coins, as coins, with nothing added to the coins to make the photograph especially original or creative, would not be copyrightable.

A blurry photo, an off-center photo or a shadowed photo probably would not make a coin photo copyrightable. It is possible, I suppose, but unlikely. And I doubt if anyone would want to pilfer your odd coin photo anyway, so it would probably never become an issue before a court.

 

[BobLoblaw]

Thanks so much for your answers and continuing the discussion.

For my immediate purposes, I don't want any images that aren't straight on and evenly lit. It is good to know where the boundaries are though, even if it's a little gray.

The Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp. case is certainly interesting, and goes with what you guys are telling me. Thanks for pointing it out.



Now this brings up another question. Say I obtain some coins issued by a private mint. You know the rip-offs that you see on late night infomercials.

You can see some images of what I'm talking about by searching Google for "silver art round".

Anyway, since the designs on these "coins" are made by private companies, am I allowed to take and publish an image of them? At this point I would be worried about infringing on the copyright of the private mint, or of the original engraver even.

If someone makes a statue, am I allowed to take a picture of it? If I take a picture of some urban graffiti am I technically infringing on the copyright of the painter?

Thanks.

 

[quincy]

The taking of photographs is generally not where problems arise, unless you must violate a law in order to take the shot (ie. trespass). It is how you use the photographs you take that will give rise to law suits (ie. infringement, invasion of privacy, defamation).

Taking a photo of a statue is often not a problem, even though the statue is an artist's creation and the creation itself is copyright protected. If the statue sits in a public place, you can take a photo of it. However, if you try to publish this photo of the statue, or use the image of the statue in a commercial manner, the artist may consider your photographic image a derivative of his protected work, and a suit against you could result.

The same would be the case with the graffiti artist (although if the graffiti artist was in danger of being arrested for vandalism if identified, he may not want to press the issue by coming forward with a lawsuit against a photographer who publishes his work ).

ANY case, however, depends on ALL of the facts and ALL of the particulars of a situation, so there is no definitive answer as to what would be copyright infringement until the infringement action reaches the court level and a court decides the matter.

With "commemorative" coins, the coins can be copies made (often in "gold") of coins already in existence (ie. a gold Susan B. Anthony dollar). A black and white photo of a gold-colored Anthony coin is not going to be infringement. However, if the coins are specially created with an original design to commemorate, say, the passing of Charles Schulz, and the coins picture Snoopy and Linus or an original image of Schulz, then photographing and publishing images of these coins can be infringement (as well as a violation of trademark and publicity rights).

Again, it depends on the facts. Your questions are getting a bit into hypotheticals and what ifs, and there are not easy answers to these types of questions. A review of the Copyright Act can help, and case law can give you an idea of what decision a court could make based on similar facts and circumstances.

When in doubt, it is always wise to seek the advice of an IP attorney and/or get permission to use any potentially protected images directly from the creator of the image.