Visitation has been suspended for three years...

[SMinNJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? New Jersey

It has been years since my husband and I posted on this site. I appreciate your help in the past, and look for a little advice now. I am the stepmom, writing on Dad's request, as in the past.

Mom and Dad have been divorced for approximately 10 years. Child is now 16. Original parenting plan called for joint legal (although it is worded as joint custody) with mom being parent of primary residence. Original visitation was EOW, Wednesday evening visitation, and two weeks in summer. The post divorce relationship was never cordial. Mom claimed in divorce, and since, that Dad was mentally abusive to her in the marriage, prompting her departure after 6 years of marriage.

Mom filed in 2004 for supervised visitation, due to alleged mental abuse by Dad and me (SM). Alleged abuse was things such as forcing child to ride a bicycle even though she was nervous about it. A court appointed risk assessor spoke with all parties and stated that child enjoyed doing things with her dad, but that he tended to treat her as older than she was (she was 10 at the time). Assessor stated that Mom tended to increase any fear that the child might have of Dad. After a year of interrupted, and then graduated visitation, and a conversation between the judge and the child, the judge immediately returned visitation to the initial schedule.

In 2007, the child, then 12, came independently to Dad and said that she wanted to live with Dad, due to her discomfort with her mother's home, and the way that her mom and her new stepfather treated her. He emailed mom about these issues, and attempted to voluntarily increase visitation time. Mom refused. Dad then filed for a change of custody, and in absence of that change, to increase visitation to something resembling a fifty/fifty split. Almost immediately, mom filed an ex parte requesting dad's visitation be suspended. She took child to a crisis counselor who saw child only in Mom's presence. Counselor did not meet with Dad, and Dad did not know that this meeting occurred. Counselor reported to the court that Dad "plays a perverted chess game of power" with the child, and recommended visitation be suspended. At the show cause hearing, judge upheld the ex parte ordering suspending visitation and sent Dad for a psychological eval. Psych eval showed leanings toward Narcissistic Personality Disorder and psych recommended continuing the suspension of parenting time until both child and dad got counseling separately, and child's psych decides it is the right time to reintroduce. Judge made the recommendation an order, and in it, decreed that no motions would be heard from Dad until the child's psych made her move.

As I said, this all started three years ago. Dad met with the child's psych in April 2009, before the child started counseling with her. The presumption is that the child started soon after that. Dad began counseling in August 2009, before the psych eval was made. Dad's psych does not agree with the psychological evaluation, and seems to indicate to both of us that Dad is a psychologically healthy man who is justly ticked off at the situation. She has contacted the child's psych several times, as a friendly colleague, to see how the counseling is proceeding. Each time, the child psych has said it is not time yet. The last time contact was made was back in January 2010.

Dad sent a letter to the child's psych requesting to know the status at the middle of July, with no response. Mom provides no information regarding the daughter unless specifically asked, and not always even then. Dad sends regular emails and greeting cards to daughter, with no response. He is not one hundred percent sure child receives this correspondence.

Sorry so long, but the point is, what should Dad do? It seems that there is no recourse for him, since the psych won't communicate, Mom won't communicate, and the court has stated that it won't hear his motions. It's been over three years since this particular saga began, with no end in sight, and dad misses his daughter terribly. Additionally, he now has two new children she has never met, plus the one that was only a year old when she went away, and he hopes that his children can have a relationship.

What to do, what to do?

Thanks...

 

[Zigner]

Convince hubby to hire an attorney...

 

[SMinNJ]

Convince hubby to hire an attorney...

Thank you for the advice. Hubby has been pro se. Frankly, with a growing family, things have been tight. Can you tell me what an attorney would be able to do for him that would be different than what he could do for himself?

Thanks.

 

[Tex78704]

I agree with the suggestion that he does need an attorney, as he is beyond the point of being able to properly address this as a pro se.

Judge made the recommendation an order, and in it, decreed that no motions would be heard from Dad until the child's psych made her move.

This is a problem. If dad had been represented by an attorney, it is likely such language could have been excluded from the decree. And, he may not have been arbitrarily denied vistation under the cicumstances and terms you stated here.

Unlike your husband, a good attorney should be able to light a fire under his daughters psychologist and compel a response, and to better challenge and controvert the psychologists recommendations if needed.

As it stands your husband appears to be at an impasse, and continuing as a pro se will not get him out of it. So he really needs to hire a good attorney. The alternative is to wait another three years until she is 18, and the issue is moot.

 

[SMinNJ]

I agree with the suggestion that he does need an attorney, as he is beyond the point of being able to properly address this as a pro se.

This is a problem. If dad had been represented by an attorney, it is likely such language could have been excluded from the decree. And, he may not have been arbitrarily denied vistation under the cicumstances and terms you stated here.

Unlike your husband, a good attorney should be able to light a fire under his daughters psychologist and compel a response, and to better challenge and controvert the psychologists recommendations if needed.

As it stands your husband appears to be at an impasse, and continuing as a pro se will not get him out of it. So he really needs to hire a good attorney. The alternative is to wait another three years until she is 18, and the issue is moot.

Thanks Tex... that language was in fact, not part of ANYONE's motion or suggested wording, but came directly from the judge. This case had already hung around forever, and the original judge rotated out of family court, so this was a brand new judge, both to us and to family court (in NJ they pass around a lot - this is actually the fourth judge totally).

Assuming that he is unable to hire an attorney, nor is he willing to wait three years (and I can guarantee that one is a given ), where would he turn? The child has a GAL, who has tended to do disappearing acts over the last three years, once for something like 7 weeks in the middle of the first four months of the action, and who has never even met dad. We thought perhaps a letter to the GAL, copied to Mom's attorney, expressing concern about the child and looking for some information might be helpful. According to the GAL's billing statements, he has had no contact with the child, in the last 13 months, nor has he billed for any new actions. My husband believes that a letter might prompt the GAL into asking the child's doctor for a status update.

My husband is a bit frustrated right now, since we are the non-official foster parents to a girl his daughter's age in our neighborhood, and she is living in a drug-filled, physically abusive household right now, and there is an open DYFS case, yet the girl can't be removed from her parent's home, while he hasn't even spoken to his daughter in three years after accusations of mental abuse which his own psychologist, who has spent countless hours with him, believes to be completely without foundation. This neighborhood girl is actually keeping all her clothes at our house because after ten minutes in her own, they smell like cat urine. We are her first and last visit of the day, simply so she can have clean clothes.

Thanks again...

 

[mistoffolees]

Sorry, he only has 3 choices:

1. Wait 3 years.

2. Hire an attorney

3. Learn enough about the law for him to be able to handle this on his own. That doesn't seem to be progressing very well.

No one here can magically make new options appear. If the daughter's life is truly in danger - AND YOU CAN PROVE IT - call DYFS again. Or, more accurately, Dad would call them. Other than that, he really needs to find the money for an attorney - even if it means a second job. Or you taking a second job (or a first one if you're not working now).

 

[SMinNJ]

Sorry, he only has 3 choices:

1. Wait 3 years.

2. Hire an attorney

3. Learn enough about the law for him to be able to handle this on his own. That doesn't seem to be progressing very well.

No one here can magically make new options appear. If the daughter's life is truly in danger - AND YOU CAN PROVE IT - call DYFS again. Or, more accurately, Dad would call them. Other than that, he really needs to find the money for an attorney - even if it means a second job. Or you taking a second job (or a first one if you're not working now).

Thanks Mist, for the reply... I see I have confused you with two issues, which actually have no beariing on each other, except in the metaphysical, this is the messed up way the world works sort of thing...

My husband does not feel his daughter is in physical danger from her mother - although of course, as many divorced parents feel, only he can properly raise their daughter ... the whole physically abusive parents with a child referred to a neighbor girl who we pretty much foster, who can't get away from her parents even with an active DYFS case... but has no bearing on his daughter.

Dad has a second job. I do taxes and bookkeeping on the side, I sell Avon AND I raise three children under the age of 5. We're pretty much at the end of what we can do financially.

He has represented himself pro se successfully several times, both in and out of family court. His full time job is for the state, where he actually works to write laws... he can handle the research and the legalese...

Our question, all distractions aside, is which area to keep hammering, so to speak. Mom's lawyer, the GAL, or the child's psych. The fourth option seems to be to ignore the judge's order of not motioning the court, which of course would never be wise, but stating that even though the court ordered him not to bother them again, there has been no progress made, no information forthcoming from the parties, and that pretty, please, would the court ask everyone to give a status report. This he had asked for in his original pleading, that after sixty days of counseling, everyone check back and see where they were. The judge instead chose to issue an order barring him from further motions. That was not something mentioned in court by the judge when she was stating her decision, and actually was overlooked by him when he received the order, since he was anxious to get everything moving. It still took mom over 6 months to get the child into her counselor...

So, question - Mom's lawyer, GAL, or child's psych again?

Thanks for your input, and I apologize for murking the water with a sarcastic and political comment which had no bearing on the issue at hand.

 

[Zigner]

Convince hubby to hire an attorney...

 

[SMinNJ]

Convince hubby to hire an attorney...

I bow to your greater reason, really Zigner... I'd still like to hear from you, personally, exactly what the lawyer can/will do that my husband hasn't... just so that I can convince him better... I'm not trying to be fresh, honest...

 

[mistoffolees]

I bow to your greater reason, really Zigner... I'd still like to hear from you, personally, exactly what the lawyer can/will do that my husband hasn't... just so that I can convince him better... I'm not trying to be fresh, honest...

I agree with Zigner.

For starters, a lawyer would know what to do rather than stumbling around blindly hoping to find an answer somewhere. And even if you had the answer, your husband isn't going to be as effective as an attorney. Finally, the judge's order is unreasonable. An attorney may be able to convince him of that, but your husband won't.

But the BIGGEST reason for using an attorney is that the attorney can evaluate all the facts and decide on the best course of action. You are unable to provide all the facts here. Even if your husband were posting, we would not have access to all the facts. For example, there is undoubtedly a reason why the judge ordered that he couldn't bring up custody again. How many filings have there been in the last 5 years?

The proof is in the pudding. Your husband has an order that an attorney would have objected to on the spot. It is unreasonable, and possibly unconstitutional. Yet he was unable to stop it as pro se.

You've gotten your answer. Everyone agrees that he needs an attorney. Sorry, no one has a magic wand to change the situation.

 

[SMinNJ]

I agree with Zigner.

For starters, a lawyer would know what to do rather than stumbling around blindly hoping to find an answer somewhere. And even if you had the answer, your husband isn't going to be as effective as an attorney. Finally, the judge's order is unreasonable. An attorney may be able to convince him of that, but your husband won't.

But the BIGGEST reason for using an attorney is that the attorney can evaluate all the facts and decide on the best course of action. You are unable to provide all the facts here. Even if your husband were posting, we would not have access to all the facts. For example, there is undoubtedly a reason why the judge ordered that he couldn't bring up custody again. How many filings have there been in the last 5 years?

The proof is in the pudding. Your husband has an order that an attorney would have objected to on the spot. It is unreasonable, and possibly unconstitutional. Yet he was unable to stop it as pro se.

You've gotten your answer. Everyone agrees that he needs an attorney. Sorry, no one has a magic wand to change the situation.

okay... thanks... not arguing...

I can/will fill in some of the gaps... There have been a total of 3 filings since the divorce. First, mom filed in 2004, saying dad was mentally abusive... outcome as reported... Second, dad filed in 2007, requesting change in custody/change in visitation... never heard because within two weeks, mom filed Third, suspension of visitation stating Dad was abusive...

Additionally, in this last case, the original judge told the kids to go play nicely and make a visitation plan. Mom and GAL said that child refused, so there was no plan. GAL wrote to the judge saying that they couldn't work together nicely. After four months, the original judge responded saying that he was leaving the bench and that new judge was coming in, so if anyone wanted to do anything about it, they needed to file a motion. After six weeks, Dad was the only one to prepare a motion, in which he suggested that everyone go to counseling, with finite guidelines (a timetable to follow, or at least check back with each other so that there was accountability). Judge agreed to counseling, as Dad recommended, but did not order guidelines. Dad also asked for some other things, like regular updates on the child's activities and wellbeing, so even though he had no contact, he could know how the child was doing. That was rejected by the judge, and not included.

Anyway, thanks for the input... you don't have to respond anymore... I simply included the above as further information... I know that every bit of info that is gathered is advice that can be given in future circumstances. From all my research, New Jersey is a frustrating place where judges change frequently, and there is no consistency for anyone.

Thanks again for your help. It is frustrating to me, at least, that a judge can make an order that might not be constitutional, but something that is constitutional, ie, a pro se litigant working diligently on his own behalf, would not be effective in opposing such a thing.

Have a great day...

 

[mistoffolees]

It is frustrating to me, at least, that a judge can make an order that might not be constitutional, but something that is constitutional, ie, a pro se litigant working diligently on his own behalf, would not be effective in opposing such a thing.

That's not the case at all. A Pro Se litigant could have known to oppose the order right at the start - IF THEY HAD DONE THEIR HOMEWORK. You can't just walk into court and expect to prevail. You have to spend a lot of hours learning the law, learning the procedures, and then getting all of your facts and evidence in order.

Pro Se litigants win all the time - if they do a good job of presenting their case.

 

[SMinNJ]

That's not the case at all. A Pro Se litigant could have known to oppose the order right at the start - IF THEY HAD DONE THEIR HOMEWORK. You can't just walk into court and expect to prevail. You have to spend a lot of hours learning the law, learning the procedures, and then getting all of your facts and evidence in order.

Pro Se litigants win all the time - if they do a good job of presenting their case.

Ok. thanks.

 

[stealth2]

He has represented himself pro se successfully several times, both in and out of family court. His full time job is for the state, where he actually works to write laws... he can handle the research and the legalese...

Yet... it seems not to have worked for him, has it? And whle he may well be capable of handling the research... uumm... he seems oddly absent from doing so at this point. <shrug>

 

[ProSeDadinMD]

That's not the case at all. A Pro Se litigant could have known to oppose the order right at the start - IF THEY HAD DONE THEIR HOMEWORK. You can't just walk into court and expect to prevail. You have to spend a lot of hours learning the law, learning the procedures, and then getting all of your facts and evidence in order.

Pro Se litigants win all the time - if they do a good job of presenting their case.

I agree with this. 3 years in and nothing changed sadly means that your hubby simply isn't up to the job.