Check me please

[Finished2010]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? TX

Last post I talked about dad threatening to enforce visitation and such if I didn't close CS case. Consulted atty and she told me to not close the case, my child is not for sale or trade.And to contact her if he filed anything. He never filed anything. I didn't close the case. Dad contacted me a while ago and said he didn't mind paying, wasn't going to push the visitation unless our son wanted to know him. Our son is 9. I asked son about it and he said sure but my dad is my step dad and if dad will agree to consent to adoption than yeah he will get to know him. He knows that dad wished to sign away rights so step dad could adopt, he knows a little about the process. Is this healthy guys? Is it even legal? Son and dad have corresponded once via the internet. Son hasn't asked anymore about him. Son says that he will talk to dad on phone and tell him that he wants to be adopted. Son is only a child. Where do you draw the line here. Could this hurt us when we do go for adoption? Son is adamant his dad is his step dad and he is indifferent to his real dad. Son says that he doesn't need to know his dad, he already has one. Dad seemed excited in his reply to our son, that son took the time to email him, I asked son to send a message back, son said I waited 9 years to hear from him, he can wait until I want to send one back. I dropped it. Son told a friend at the park that he was being adopted by his step dad as soon as "Ron" agreed to it. Friend asked him who "Ron" is, my son answered just some loser. I have never bad mouthed dad, I have never said one single ill word about him to or around my son. This is his opinion. Dad still has rights and we are going home soon for a visit, he sent a message to me saying that he heard about this from a friend of a friend. We know some of the same people, I don't associate with her really but we are "friends" on a social networking site. Dad says when we come he wants to see his child. I already know my child will not want to go see him. He doesn't want to know him at all. I have asked twice if he wishes to reply to the message, he says no. When we go do I make son go to see him? I know I have to facilitate here and son just has no interest.

 

[mistoffolees]

Why on God's green earth are you letting a 9 year old make a decision (or even significantly influence) a decision on termination of parental rights and adoption?

His father is his father - and has every right to see him if there are any visitation orders in place. If there are no visitation orders in place, Dad will have to get them and THEN you will be required to cooperate and make the child visit him.

STOP dragging your son into this.

 

[gr8rn]

You really should try to set something up when you go home to visit. Apparently Dad wants to "push visitation" despite what he told you. And as you yourself pointed out, it is your job to facilitate relationship with NCP.

I can't see a 9 year old saying things like that about his father with absolutely NO influence from you. I think it is great that his stepfather has stepped up to the plate, but you should not have put the onus on your son to make the decisions where his father is concerned. Now you have the option of forcing your son to see his father after telling your son it was totally up to him vs allowing your son to make the call. He now thinks he has that power.

Do you have your son in therapy?

 

[LdiJ]

You really should try to set something up when you go home to visit. Apparently Dad wants to "push visitation" despite what he told you. And as you yourself pointed out, it is your job to facilitate relationship with NCP.

I can't see a 9 year old saying things like that about his father with absolutely NO influence from you. I think it is great that his stepfather has stepped up to the plate, but you should not have put the onus on your son to make the decisions where his father is concerned. Now you have the option of forcing your son to see his father after telling your son it was totally up to him vs allowing your son to make the call. He now thinks he has that power.

Do you have your son in therapy?

I actually CAN see a 9 year old saying things like that, particularly if the 9 year old has been aware all along that dad was out there somewhere but didn't see him. Children are smarter than we think sometimes, and definitely develop their own opinions.

My 4 year old granddaughter suprises me because she definitely has an opinion about her dad, even though no one has bad mouthed him to her or talked bad about him in front of her.

In any case however, I do think that it would probably be in your child's best interest to at least meet his father while you are visiting the area. I wouldn't send him off alone with dad at this point, because that could backfire and make things worse, but it would probably be in his best interest to at least meet him.

 

[txmom512]

I can completely see a 9 yr old saying that as well.

My 14 yr old dd has that same indifference to her father. She has no stepfather, but she has absolutely no interest whatsoever in getting to know her dad. She's never had one. She has no idea what having one is like, and doesn't want one. At this point, to her, it would be an interference.

As a daddy's girl myself, I'd love to see her have a relationship with her dad. I try to tell her nice things about him, and great things about having a dad. But I'm not sure she's buying it.

 

[milspecgirl]

I think the first thing I would do is talk to dad.
Explain that the child feels abandoned and is having issues adapting to dad wanting to be around now and that he needs to understand this is a great upheaval to the child. Make sure that dad plans on being around for the long term and building a relationship. He needs to know it is going to get rough and be hard. You need to know he is going to step up to the plate. Explain to dad that son wants to be adopted- he is afraid of losing the only "dad" he knows if he makes a relationship with dad.

Based on your conversation with dad, you need to sit your son down and maybe stepdad too (to explain that he isn't going to love child less and that he thinks child should give dad a chance) and explain to him that this is how it is going to be. then lay out your plan.

get child into counseling to deal with all of this too.

 

[Finished2010]

Thank you all for your input.

I have never said anything unkind about his dad. I just haven't. I dont feel any animosity towards the guy. We were both young and stupid. I feel a little angry that he waited so long and before said pretty messed up things about our son, but it wold have been pointless to say that to my son, he really thinks he is a jerk, probably for the fact he was never around. I had the advantage of having our son grow inside of me, I bonded from the first flutter I felt. I raised my son the best I could. I have a huge family and he was showered in love and attention from the moment of his birth. He didn't miss out on anything not having his father. He asked only a few times about him, I answered that he was away. He seemed to accept that and moved on. dad seems to understand that he messed up, it was dad who asked for me to ask our son, dad said he doesn't want to disrupt his life and realizes that our son may not wish to have him involved. I will give my son some time to think about it, in the meantime I have set up an appointment with a counselor to help him deal with all the emotions he has to be feeling. Scary thing is he doesn't seem to have any, he isn't angry, sad or anything. he is calm and collected and just says I have a dad. I told him he is you step dad and he just smiles and says I know but he is my dad. His biggest fear is that his real dad will stand in the way of my husband adopting him. And we have even told him that adoption doesn't make him more or less his "father" except in the eyes of the law. he says I want him to be my dad that way too. My husband has been a huge part of his life, they play sports together, games, and cook on the grill. he thinks my husband hung the moon. I talked to dad yesterday on the phone, he says if son don't want him around then he wont be. He said that when we are able to proceed with adoption than he is on board if it makes our son happy. I think I am having more emotions than anybody, lol. Thanks again to all, I think this will work itself out.

 

[mistoffolees]

Thank you all for your input.

I have never said anything unkind about his dad. I just haven't. I dont feel any animosity towards the guy. We were both young and stupid. I feel a little angry that he waited so long and before said pretty messed up things about our son, but it wold have been pointless to say that to my son, he really thinks he is a jerk, probably for the fact he was never around. I had the advantage of having our son grow inside of me, I bonded from the first flutter I felt. I raised my son the best I could. I have a huge family and he was showered in love and attention from the moment of his birth. He didn't miss out on anything not having his father. He asked only a few times about him, I answered that he was away. He seemed to accept that and moved on. dad seems to understand that he messed up, it was dad who asked for me to ask our son, dad said he doesn't want to disrupt his life and realizes that our son may not wish to have him involved. I will give my son some time to think about it, in the meantime I have set up an appointment with a counselor to help him deal with all the emotions he has to be feeling. Scary thing is he doesn't seem to have any, he isn't angry, sad or anything. he is calm and collected and just says I have a dad. I told him he is you step dad and he just smiles and says I know but he is my dad. His biggest fear is that his real dad will stand in the way of my husband adopting him. And we have even told him that adoption doesn't make him more or less his "father" except in the eyes of the law. he says I want him to be my dad that way too. My husband has been a huge part of his life, they play sports together, games, and cook on the grill. he thinks my husband hung the moon. I talked to dad yesterday on the phone, he says if son don't want him around then he wont be. He said that when we are able to proceed with adoption than he is on board if it makes our son happy. I think I am having more emotions than anybody, lol. Thanks again to all, I think this will work itself out.

Will you please stop discussing this with your son? You can't imagine how much harm you could be doing. IT IS NOT HIS DECISION.

And if you absolutely must discuss things with him, please stop lying to him. "adoption doesn't make him more or less his "father" except in the eyes of the law" is so grossly misleading as to be essentially a lie. Do you know ANY fathers who have given their kids up for adoption who have continued to have ANY contact with the child? If his father is going to remain in contact, then adoption is a horrible idea.

 

[LdiJ]

Will you please stop discussing this with your son? You can't imagine how much harm you could be doing. IT IS NOT HIS DECISION.

And if you absolutely must discuss things with him, please stop lying to him. "adoption doesn't make him more or less his "father" except in the eyes of the law" is so grossly misleading as to be essentially a lie. Do you know ANY fathers who have given their kids up for adoption who have continued to have ANY contact with the child? If his father is going to remain in contact, then adoption is a horrible idea.

She was referring to stepdad when she said that.

 

[CJane]

It's quite likely that an adoption would not be able to go forward with a child of this age without the consent of the child. And the feelings of the child regarding the adoption would certainly be taken into account on a "best interests" level.

 

[Finished2010]

I was speaking of his step dad misto. Weather he adopts or not, my son can still feel he is his father. Thats what I said to him. Basically that step dad doesn't have to adopt him to be a "father" to him. And as for this not being his decision, yes I believe he should have a say in if he is adopted or not.

I have a hard time believing that its in the best interest of my child to force him to talk to a man that never gave a damn about him. Dad choose to not be involved, and yes we were young but its not an excuse. This boy has grown up perfectly fine without him. Why is it that these fathers can wait years to decide that their children are meaningful enough to know and disrupt the kids life without the child being able speak their feelings? Why is it so bad that I asked my son, how do you feel about knowing your father? Why is it so bad that I asked him would you like to talk to him? I haven't discussed to much of anything with my son. I/we (dad) just wanted to know what his feelings were. Isn't that what matters most here, the child's feelings? Since my son is happy as his life is now, since he knows his father is willing to talk to him now, and since he says I don't care, I think he has made his feelings known. And it is about him, it does concern him. This entire situation is all about him and what is best for him. And if this is not his decision, than whose is it?

 

[LdiJ]

I was speaking of his step dad misto. Weather he adopts or not, my son can still feel he is his father. Thats what I said to him. Basically that step dad doesn't have to adopt him to be a "father" to him. And as for this not being his decision, yes I believe he should have a say in if he is adopted or not.

I have a hard time believing that its in the best interest of my child to force him to talk to a man that never gave a damn about him. Dad choose to not be involved, and yes we were young but its not an excuse. This boy has grown up perfectly fine without him. Why is it that these fathers can wait years to decide that their children are meaningful enough to know and disrupt the kids life without the child being able speak their feelings? Why is it so bad that I asked my son, how do you feel about knowing your father? Why is it so bad that I asked him would you like to talk to him? I haven't discussed to much of anything with my son. I/we (dad) just wanted to know what his feelings were. Isn't that what matters most here, the child's feelings? Since my son is happy as his life is now, since he knows his father is willing to talk to him now, and since he says I don't care, I think he has made his feelings known. And it is about him, it does concern him. This entire situation is all about him and what is best for him. And if this is not his decision, than whose is it?

There are some prevailing theories on this forum:

1) Children do not know what is or isn't in their best interests
2) Its always in the best interest of children to have a relationship with both their biological parents.
3) Mothers who allow stepparents to be considered to be "dad" are playing musical daddies and are not admirable.
4) Parents who allow their children to know anything at all about what might be going on legally, or what might happen in the future are putting their children in the middle of adult issues and are therefore abusive.

I sometimes agree with these theories based on the facts of a particular case, and I sometimes adamantly disagree with these theories based on the facts of a particular case.

In your case, I think that they should be pretty much thrown out the window.

Your child is nine, his father hasn't been in his life at all. There is no possible way that you could have suddenly sprung meeting his father on him without talking to him ahead of time and seeing how he felt about it. If for no other reason than to get him counseling to help him deal with the issue, if you found out that he was opposed and dad still insisted. To do otherwise would have been cruel and totally unfair to the child.

Again, your child is nine, there is no way that you could have contemplated an adoption by your husband without knowing how he felt about that.

However, I also feel that while you absolutely had to discuss everything with the child, that it honestly wasn't the child's decision to make. Had his father insisted, neither you nor the child would have eventually had any choice. Therefore, allowing the child to express his feelings on the subject was not only appropriate, but necessary, but allowing the child to think that he had any decision making powers on the subject (of at least his biological father) was dangerous.