Educational expenses

[cwmayhem]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL
When we were divorced in 2008, my ex and I agreed that he would pay 1/2 of educational expenses. Our daughter was almost 4 and son was almost 8. It states in our decree about Secondary educational Expenses. He has paid for the last 2 years, but now states that he is not responsible for any school fees, as high school is secondary school. Any chance that the judge will agree with this arguement? She was our original judge, so she knows the "spirit" of the JPA meant all education. Has anyone ever seen primary school fees listed or is this included? (After all, our daughter was not even in K or pre-K at the time?) Can I use status quo, since up til now he has paid?
At this point, I have 7 more years of grade school fees. He is picking out everything at this point to argue because he does not was to pay his half of daycare, education, medical, and extracurricular that he is deliquent on since July 2009.

Thanks!

 

[mistoffolees]

The 'spirit' of the decree is largely meaningless. What matters is the words on paper.

What does the decree say with respect to educational costs?

If it says nothing, then he doesn't have to pay.

 

[cwmayhem]

it says:
Both parties shall split evenly the secondary educational expenses of the children, which expenses shall include but not limited to registration fees, book fees, bus/transportation fees, field trip fees, and graduation/cap and gown fees. The party paying shall provide written documentation of the payment to the other party, and the non-paying party shall reimburse his/her 50% within fourteen (14) days of his/her receipt of said written documentation.

My question, as this is all it says, does it include all school before college? There is a section on post-secondary education. He is stating that this is high school only, and our kids are still very young.

 

[mistoffolees]

it says:
Both parties shall split evenly the secondary educational expenses of the children, which expenses shall include but not limited to registration fees, book fees, bus/transportation fees, field trip fees, and graduation/cap and gown fees. The party paying shall provide written documentation of the payment to the other party, and the non-paying party shall reimburse his/her 50% within fourteen (14) days of his/her receipt of said written documentation.

My question, as this is all it says, does it include all school before college? There is a section on post-secondary education. He is stating that this is high school only, and our kids are still very young.

Sorry, but it specifically spells out secondary educational expenses. Since the court went to the trouble to write out 'secondary', they will assume that there must have been a reason for it and will want a good reason to change it.

One difficulty you'll face when the children get older is 'what is secondary education'? Maybe your state has a law that defines it, so look it up. Otherwise, I could see an argument about whether secondary education begins in 9th grade or 10th grade or even 7th grade.

I guess the question is, how much money are you talking about? Mandatory fees for grade school aren't typically all that high - certainly not high enough to create a court battle over the matter. Think really hard about whether you want to create a battle over a relatively small amount of money - knowing all the stress, anger, and bitterness it will cause.

 

[stealth2]

Sweetheart... elementary does not equal secondary. You have nothing to make him pay for primary school. And secondary usually starts in 9th grade.

 

[LdiJ]

Sorry, but it specifically spells out secondary educational expenses. Since the court went to the trouble to write out 'secondary', they will assume that there must have been a reason for it and will want a good reason to change it.

One difficulty you'll face when the children get older is 'what is secondary education'? Maybe your state has a law that defines it, so look it up. Otherwise, I could see an argument about whether secondary education begins in 9th grade or 10th grade or even 7th grade.

I guess the question is, how much money are you talking about? Mandatory fees for grade school aren't typically all that high - certainly not high enough to create a court battle over the matter. Think really hard about whether you want to create a battle over a relatively small amount of money - knowing all the stress, anger, and bitterness it will cause.

There are two different ways that could be interpreted, and I think that is part of the problem.

It could be interpreted as talking about costs for secondary school, or it could be interpreted as costs for school that are secondary costs. Of course, if they are not in private school (therefore tuition being paid) I am not sure what would be considered to be a primary cost.

Was this an agreement signed off on by the judge or was it ordered by the judge? Whose attorney wrote it up?

 

[mistoffolees]

There are two different ways that could be interpreted, and I think that is part of the problem.

It could be interpreted as talking about costs for secondary school, or it could be interpreted as costs for school that are secondary costs. Of course, if they are not in private school (therefore tuition being paid) I am not sure what would be considered to be a primary cost.

Was this an agreement signed off on by the judge or was it ordered by the judge? Whose attorney wrote it up?

I guess that's one way to see it. I wouldn't have used the word 'secondary', but it's a plausible interpretation.

Was 'secondary' capitalized, by any chance? If it was, that would argue for it meaning secondary school.

Bottom line, though, is that the costs are just not high enough to be worth fighting about in elementary school in most cases. Since they agree that high school is covered, they're going to end up spending a lot of time, energy, and money fighting over a few hundred dollars.

 

[LdiJ]

I guess that's one way to see it. I wouldn't have used the word 'secondary', but it's a plausible interpretation.

Was 'secondary' capitalized, by any chance? If it was, that would argue for it meaning secondary school.

Bottom line, though, is that the costs are just not high enough to be worth fighting about in elementary school in most cases. Since they agree that high school is covered, they're going to end up spending a lot of time, energy, and money fighting over a few hundred dollars.

Book rental and fees in my state are quite high, and for low or lower income parents they really hurt. Its easily 200.00 a semester, per child. If you have multiple children and are living paycheck to paycheck, that's difficult to come up with...particularly when you also have to provide school clothes and supplies at the same time.

 

[cwmayhem]

Thank you for all of your responses. I have contacted my divorce attorney's office to get any correspondance between attorneys, but was not able to get much. Maybe that could have been used.
Secondary was not capitalized in any way in the order. The way it was explained to both of us was that he would be required to pay half of all school fees. Period. He has paid these fees for the past 2 years, plus he has paid fees for religious education. Does anyone think I can use status quo, since he has paid them since the divorce was final til now?
He has not worked in 2 years, nor has actively looked for emplyment. (says he got more from unemployment and union benefits - $1800/month AFTER cs and taxes, so why bother?) He lives with his parents, so no utilities, rent, etc.
Got a gf in in June/July of last year, and that's when all payments for the kids stopped. Also wants to stop paying for medical insurance, extracurricular (behind on this), daycare (way behind on this and at $500/month is a very big deal). I have been taking this to court for almost a year, but now his attorney (cited for misconduct in 2006 - a real winner!) is advising him to stop all financial responsibility to the kids!
I am just so tired of fighting, but have a responsibility to my children that he doesn't seem to have.

Any advice on the status quo? How long/how many times does it take for something to be considered status quo? Hoping the judge treats this as such. Any ideas?
I know school fees don't seem like a big deal, but taken with everything else, I am drowning,

 

[mistoffolees]

Thank you for all of your responses. I have contacted my divorce attorney's office to get any correspondance between attorneys, but was not able to get much. Maybe that could have been used.
Secondary was not capitalized in any way in the order. The way it was explained to both of us was that he would be required to pay half of all school fees. Period. He has paid these fees for the past 2 years, plus he has paid fees for religious education. Does anyone think I can use status quo, since he has paid them since the divorce was final til now?

If there was an understanding that all school fees would be covered and if he paid them for 2 years, then you have a strong argument. if you file for contempt, he might not be found in contempt since the order is unclear, and you probably won't get any retroactive payments, but you have a good chance of getting the order clarified.

 

[cwmayhem]

Thank you very much. I will get all prior payments together. Hopefully this works!