Voicemails

[cwmayhem]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? IL
I have a question regarding voicemail. My kids are young. 6 and 10. Last year, I was having a hard time getting them to talk to their father. At one point, I said to them, (after punishing, bribing, rewarding them for talking to their father none of which worked) if you don't want to talk to him, you have to tell him yourself. So my daughter, the younger one, left him a voicemail asking him to please leave them alone. She was on speaker, so I was heard in the background saying"louder" so that she could be heard. Now he is using this voincemail against me. I realize this was an errorin judgement on my part. This was last July, over a year ago and bringing it in now. What in your opinion may happen?
I should tell you that I have residential custody, he has opted to see them only 2 nights per month and it was written into order. I have been filing motions since July of last year because he has taken them to places they should not be(keg parties), left them in a pool and didn't watch the, (his chair was turned away from them and "making out with gf" in my son's words) in a bar, and nothing has happened. Needless to say, I have finally had to hire an attorney because he is a year behind in his half of expenses ordered in the decree, so now he is bringing it all out. Including false allegations and downright lies.
My son also heard he called everyone in my family a derogatory name and left him a voicemail of his own accord (which I was not party to at all) stating that he was not the derogatory name, and that he did not want to see him anymore. (also in his motion) Son did in fact have to see him and still does. This also occured last July and I have to admit ex and I were arguing.

I have valid points in my rule to show cause and motion to produce, and I feel he is bringing these year-old issues that have never been brought up to the court in the 8 or so times we have been in since they occured to invalidate my claims and blur what is now. But still, he kept the voicemail as blackmail and is now using it against me. Any advice?

 

[Ohiogal]

You are supposed to be encouraging the relationship and NOT encouraging the children to turn from their father. You are not facilitating the relationship between the children and their father. Quite frankly you were in the wrong and it is possible that if there are other incidents you could be seen as alienating the children. What gave you the bright idea that a CHILD should be telling their PARENT such a thing?

 

[cwmayhem]

I did say it was an error in judgement on my part. By all accounts, I had tried on every other occasion to get them to speak with him. Furthermore, he does not, nor does he ever facilitate that relationship on his own! For me to be the only one facilitating this relationship is ludicrous! Nor does he do it for me! My children get punished for even saying anything nice about me! And where am I with that? I encourage OUR relationship. No I do NOT tell them to say these things all the time, but at that point, I figured that would make them talk to him, or else shock him into initiating some kind of loving feelings between them, which he has NOT!
So I am not alienating him, he is doing that all on his own. It is one incident that occured, and that was my question. Did not ask for lecture or rebuke.
Maybe I should let you know that I had to get a Court Order to force him to take them to their own ball games. And I am supposed to encourage them to have good feelings for a person who has no feelings really for them????

 

[ecmst12]

Part of your job as CP is to facilitate the relationship with the NCP. NCP does not have the same obligation since CP has the majority of time with the children already. It might not be exactly fair, but neither is the fact that CP spends more time with the kids.

 

[cwmayhem]

I understand what you are saying, but on that, I can again go back to my decree and it states that he does have to facilitate the relationship between me and the kids. Instead, he tells them what a horrible mother I am and someday when they are older they will see it and want to live with him (and apparently his fairy-tale).
All this has really not answered my original question, though. This has been the only time I have lapsed in judgement this way. What can the judge do? Even though I am the only caregiver, I feel like he is setting me up.
What do you think the judge will say/do? I have so many issues against him financially and emotionally regarding the welfare of the kids, i can't imagine that because this happened so long ago and he has in fact been in contempt in so many ways that she will think this is nothing but retaliatory for filing against him to blur his continuous actions.

What can the judge do?

 

[Proserpina]

I understand what you are saying, but on that, I can again go back to my decree and it states that he does have to facilitate the relationship between me and the kids. Instead, he tells them what a horrible mother I am and someday when they are older they will see it and want to live with him (and apparently his fairy-tale).
All this has really not answered my original question, though. This has been the only time I have lapsed in judgement this way. What can the judge do? Even though I am the only caregiver, I feel like he is setting me up.
What do you think the judge will say/do? I have so many issues against him financially and emotionally regarding the welfare of the kids, i can't imagine that because this happened so long ago and he has in fact been in contempt in so many ways that she will think this is nothing but retaliatory for filing against him to blur his continuous actions.

What can the judge do?

Nobody can guess what any particular judge will do in any given situation.

YOU however need to FOCUS.

Just because Dad isn't the best at co-parenting, doesn't mean that you can't or shouldn't take the higher road and simply do the best you can.

You're not currently doing that. You are the parent here - you should absolutely not be allowing the kids to call their father and leave such voicemails.

 

[cwmayhem]

Again, I stated this was 14 months ago... I do not let them do this. It was ONE lapse in judgement. At this point, when they have to see him, I say to have a good time, that's it. They do come and tell me things that happen and I let them have their own opinions.
Once again, this is NOT a common occurance! I do not feel the need to defend myself. Since this occurance, nothing else has happened. And I am offended that youdon't know the whole story and judge.

 

[acmb05]

Again, I stated this was 14 months ago... I do not let them do this. It was ONE lapse in judgement. At this point, when they have to see him, I say to have a good time, that's it. They do come and tell me things that happen and I let them have their own opinions.
Once again, this is NOT a common occurance! I do not feel the need to defend myself. Since this occurance, nothing else has happened. And I am offended that youdon't know the whole story and judge.

First you need to settle down. We don't know the whole story because you have not told us it. Nor have we talked to your ex and got his side or the attorney's or judge. We can only give an opinion on what we do know from what you posted.

Now it could very easily be argued that you got smart and did not do that again. Bottom line is he has a tape of you in the background "instigating" your children to leave a "loud" voice mail to dad telling him to leave them alone. Whether you meant it that way or not it is going to be hard to convince a judge that for the last year or longer you have been trying to get the kids to be more civil with dad.

Oh and after hearing this tape you expect the judge to believe that your son called dad a second time and you had nothing to do with that call.

Btw taking your kids to a party where beer is being served is not illegal or a contempt offense ( I'm sure you have had the kids places where alcohol was served) and neither is not watching your children 100% of the time while they are in a pool especially since he was in eyesight at the time. Your children were playing in the pool, not watching dad the whole time to see if he was checking on them. He could very well have turned around every minute and looked them to see they were ok.

 

[CJane]

What has been the outcome of the "eight or so" times you've been in court in the past 14 months?

What were the various REASONS you've been in court "eight or so" times in the past 14 months?

How exactly is it contempt for Dad to take the children with him to a party, take them swimming, or take them to a "bar"?

Is there a clause in the decree stating that the children must never be around alcohol at all? That they must be closely supervised every second they're with Dad? (Was this a pool with a lifeguard?) That they cannot be around his girlfriend?

Contempt requires a violation of the ORDER, not crappy parenting.

And while it seems like ancient history to you, if this is the first the court is hearing of it, that voice mail IS a big deal. And brushing it off as a "one time error in judgment" and saying "he's SO MUCH WORSE" isn't going to help the credibility issues that it creates.

 

[cwmayhem]

Thank you. The issues of contempt are not about the pool, bar, etc. He owes alot of money for his 1/2 of expenses that were court ordered. He also was ordered to get them a cell phone. As well as certain things he is supposed to have/do as requirements of the decree that he isn't following. He refuses to follow the decree at basically any turn. I have filed motions, then there were status hearings. I , last July, asked for mediation, a GAL, and supervised visitation. All I got was mediation, at which time he voluntarily gave up most of his vistation.
His motion is basically retaliatory for what I have filed. So as we have been in court (and the voicemails have been typed up by someone - he is not submitting actual tape at this time), he has had these with him and has threatened to use them before but never did.
BTW - pool did not have lifeguard and then 5 year old did not know how to swim - again I know just bad parenting.

 

[LdiJ]

Thank you. The issues of contempt are not about the pool, bar, etc. He owes alot of money for his 1/2 of expenses that were court ordered. He also was ordered to get them a cell phone. As well as certain things he is supposed to have/do as requirements of the decree that he isn't following. He refuses to follow the decree at basically any turn. I have filed motions, then there were status hearings. I , last July, asked for mediation, a GAL, and supervised visitation. All I got was mediation, at which time he voluntarily gave up most of his vistation.
His motion is basically retaliatory for what I have filed. So as we have been in court (and the voicemails have been typed up by someone - he is not submitting actual tape at this time), he has had these with him and has threatened to use them before but never did.
BTW - pool did not have lifeguard and then 5 year old did not know how to swim - again I know just bad parenting.

As far as the voicemail is concerned, explain it to the judge the way that you explained it here, and make it clear that you recognize that it was a complete error in judgement.

If you have not violated the court order in any other way, or have not stymied dad's relationship with the children in other ways, then that one voicemail is not going to cost you custody.

Also, if dad has made other false accusations, the burden of proof will need to be on him to prove those accusations. You do need to defend yourself, but he does have to prove them.