Hospital not informing spouse of problems.

[acmb05]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? This is in Florida.

My mother is stage 4 Breast Cancer, she is fighting hard but now only has about a 12% chance of coming out of this round of chemo. She has to go in on a weekly basis also and have about 9 liters of fluid removed from her stomach(she literally loses 25 lbs after every visit). A couple weeks ago she came down with a case of Shingles and they wanted to wait till it healed up before they did anymore.

Last Tuesday they put her in the hospital to do the fluid removal and also to do a biopsy on the liver. These procedures were done Thursday in an operating room and she was asleep for the procedures. My step father was not there for this as he has been out of town (he teaches for Ford motor company). My sister had to work the entire day, she has spent the last 6 months doing nothing but work and take care of our mother (love ya sis, and thanks).

Anyway on Thursday night my step father called the hospital and asked to be connected to her room and a nurse answered and told him that she was sleeping and had been medicated but was doing well. On Friday morning when my sister got off work she went to the hospital and went to her room. my mother was not there. She went to the nurses station and was told that they had a problem during the surgery so she had been immediately put in ICU after surgery. So the night before when my step father called she was in ICU but he was told she was medicated and sleeping and that everything had gone well and she was fine.

We still do not know exactly what happened during the surgery to make her have to be put in ICU, no one can or will answer any questions.

Can my sister or step dad get a copy of the medical file to see what happened during surgery? Also who would we file a complaint against about the nurses telling my step dad she was fine and resting in her room when in actuality she was three floors up in ICU. I am in Tennessee and will be leaving in a couple days to go down there but I'm a little ticked at the moment about all this.

 

[justalayman]

It sounds like you may be jumping the gun. First, sometimes a stay in the ICU is done simply because of the situation. It doesn't mean anything went wrong but simply the patients condition warrants the intense supervision.

Has your mother signed a HIPAA release to allow information to be released to your sister or step-father? A spouse has no inherent rights to information concerning a patient.

Also who would we file a complaint against about the nurses telling my step dad she was fine and resting in her room when in actuality she was three floors up in ICU

I'm not sure that was an incorrect statement. The room you are assigned to at the moment. The statement she is in her room would be in contrast to her still being in a treatment room. Sometimes a patient is put into the ICU because their situation warrants it. It doesn't mean anything went wrong. As to saying she was resting; apparently she was.

 

[barry1817]

medical

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? This is in Florida.

My mother is stage 4 Breast Cancer, she is fighting hard but now only has about a 12% chance of coming out of this round of chemo. She has to go in on a weekly basis also and have about 9 liters of fluid removed from her stomach(she literally loses 25 lbs after every visit). A couple weeks ago she came down with a case of Shingles and they wanted to wait till it healed up before they did anymore.

Last Tuesday they put her in the hospital to do the fluid removal and also to do a biopsy on the liver. These procedures were done Thursday in an operating room and she was asleep for the procedures. My step father was not there for this as he has been out of town (he teaches for Ford motor company). My sister had to work the entire day, she has spent the last 6 months doing nothing but work and take care of our mother (love ya sis, and thanks).

Anyway on Thursday night my step father called the hospital and asked to be connected to her room and a nurse answered and told him that she was sleeping and had been medicated but was doing well. On Friday morning when my sister got off work she went to the hospital and went to her room. my mother was not there. She went to the nurses station and was told that they had a problem during the surgery so she had been immediately put in ICU after surgery. So the night before when my step father called she was in ICU but he was told she was medicated and sleeping and that everything had gone well and she was fine.

We still do not know exactly what happened during the surgery to make her have to be put in ICU, no one can or will answer any questions.

Can my sister or step dad get a copy of the medical file to see what happened during surgery? Also who would we file a complaint against about the nurses telling my step dad she was fine and resting in her room when in actuality she was three floors up in ICU. I am in Tennessee and will be leaving in a couple days to go down there but I'm a little ticked at the moment about all this.

she could have been fine, and resting in ICU.

But the reality to me is what can a person do, hundreds of miles away, if told a problem, except have grave concerns and worries, that nothing can be done about.

Reminds about a person being called at 2AM because a loved one died. Think the phone call could have waited until moring.

Guess that is up to each person's personal preference.

 

[acmb05]

It sounds like you may be jumping the gun. First, sometimes a stay in the ICU is done simply because of the situation. It doesn't mean anything went wrong but simply the patients condition warrants the intense supervision.

Has your mother signed a HIPAA release to allow information to be released to your sister or step-father? A spouse has no inherent rights to information concerning a patient.

I'm not sure that was an incorrect statement. The room you are assigned to at the moment. The statement she is in her room would be in contrast to her still being in a treatment room. Sometimes a patient is put into the ICU because their situation warrants it. It doesn't mean anything went wrong. As to saying she was resting; apparently she was.

Yes they have a HIPAA release. We know something happened in surgery becausae the nurse in ICU told us something went wrong. We now know it was either a problem with her breathing or her heart stopped. My sister can't get a straight answer from anyone. Now they are telling her she has to wait for the person who did the surgery to come and she can talk to him.

 

[lealea1005]

Yes they have a HIPAA release. We know something happened in surgery becausae the nurse in ICU told us something went wrong. We now know it was either a problem with her breathing or her heart stopped. My sister can't get a straight answer from anyone. Now they are telling her she has to wait for the person who did the surgery to come and she can talk to him.

IMHO the Nurse is correct in deferring any explanation of what happend in the OR to the Surgeon. Ask the Nurse what time the Surgeon does his/her rounds on the floor and make sure some one is in the room with your Mother when the Surgeon arrives. Good luck.

 

[xylene]

I think you are clinging too hard to that 12%.

Your mother's condition is likely to severely, then terminally deteriorate, and that doesn't mean the hospital has done anything wrong.

The nurses are not empowered to talk about someone possibly needing to move into terminal care.

I'm so sorry.

 

[lya]

Now they are telling her she has to wait for the person who did the surgery to come and she can talk to him.

Seems reasonable. So far, that's the only person who was actually in the OR with the patient when the "something" happened.

 

[lya]

The nurses are not empowered to talk about someone possibly needing to move into terminal care.

Oh, yes, we are. (not that I can see how it has anything to do with this thread.)

 

[xylene]

Oh, yes, we are. (not that I can see how it has anything to do with this thread.)

I'm sorry, I had no way of knowing you are an employee of the medical facility the poster's mother is receiving care at, especially given it isn't stated.

What was stated (emphasis added)

Now they are telling her she has to wait for the person who did the surgery to come and she can talk to him.

So I concede your point, the nurse might be empowered to be the first to talk about the deterioration of a terminal cancer patients condition, but has decided to disabuse themselves of that power and responsibility in favor of the doctor.

None of these scenarios make medical error or malpractice in any way a more likely conclusion.

 

[justalayman]

. We know something happened in surgery becausae the nurse in ICU told us something went wrong. We now know it was either a problem with her breathing or her heart stopped..

since the nurse, at best, has second hand information, s/he more than likely could not answer your questions, at least very well. I think lealea gave good advice or possibly obtain the name of the doctor and contact his/her office and ask them how to contact the doc, or can the doc contact step dad or sis.

 

[lya]

I'm sorry, I had no way of knowing you are an employee of the medical facility the poster's mother is receiving care at, especially given it isn't stated.

What was stated (emphasis added)



So I concede your point, the nurse might be empowered to be the first to talk about the deterioration of a terminal cancer patients condition, but has decided to disabuse themselves of that power and responsibility in favor of the doctor.

None of these scenarios make medical error or malpractice in any way a more likely conclusion.

I guess somewhere along the way, a nurse took away your lollipop.

Nurses function under the state's Nurse Practice Act and in compliance with employer policy and procedure.

Nurses most certainly do discuss options with patients and family members; in fact, nurses are most often the ones who recognize the need of the family to have such information discussed with them.

Now, if there is an employer that doesn't want the nurses to be more than robots, I ain't workin' for 'em or bein' a patient at their hospital--not me, no, no, no, no, no.

 

[ecmst12]

However, if that nurse was not in the OR, then deferring the explanation of what happened during surgery to someone who WAS there is a wise decision.

 

[CJane]

When my StepFather was extremely ill (awaiting a liver transplant, and then post-transplant), he was in and out of ICU a LOT. And often, after having fluid removed, or dialysis performed, they moved him from his "room" into ICU in order to more closely monitor him, and then he'd have to wait for a room to open up before he could move OUT of ICU. Sometimes it was a couple of days that he was "fine" but still in ICU.

Bear in mind that just because this nurse said "something went wrong" doesn't mean something did, or that the "something" was unexpected. Perhaps it was as simple as having a hard time regulating Mom's blood pressure, as often happens when large amounts of fluid are removed from the abdomen. Perhaps she needed breathing support.

I think it's important to learn what happened, if anything. But it's less important than supporting your mother and stepfather during this time. Ultimately, the use of "resting in her room" was accurate, even if different terminology would be expected by your stepfather.

 

[LAWMED]

However, if that nurse was not in the OR, then deferring the explanation of what happened during surgery to someone who WAS there is a wise decision.

At the same time it is ENTIRELY unacceptable that a patient is moved to an ICU due to an intraoperative complication (or even without a complications, but simply as a precaution) without a family member being notified and the operating physician making every effort to contact the family an explain the situation ASAP.

The nurses in the ICU know PRECISELY why the patient was moved there and have a detailed report as to what went on in the operating room. They also have access to the anesthesia record and the operative notes. There is no excuse for refusing to answer questions or passing the buck by saying the surgeon will have to talk to them. It is ridiculous.

 

[justalayman]

There is no excuse for refusing to answer questions or passing the buck by saying the surgeon will have to talk to them. It is ridiculous.

actually, there are several.

1. policy does not allow them to disclose the information and they are required to defer to the doctor
1a. the hospital's legal advisors have recommended all questions be fielded by the professional that was directly involved with the situation.

2. since this was apparently via telephone, they had no way to verify the caller was actually the party on the HIPAA release and simply deferred to the doctor (more a stall than anything)

3. there was a problem that, although not of immediate concern, was best dealt with by the doctor since likely questions would be out of the realm of the nurses knowledge or field of practice.

At the same time it is ENTIRELY unacceptable that a patient is moved to an ICU due to an intraoperative complication (or even without a complications, but simply as a precaution) without a family member being notified and the operating physician making every effort to contact the family an explain the situation ASAP.

apparently the husband was travelling and it is not known if the hospital had immediate contact information for anybody.

from the OP:

My step father was not there for this as he has been out of town (he teaches for Ford motor company). My sister had to work the entire day, she has spent the last 6 months doing nothing but work and take care of our mother (love ya sis, and thanks).