Ex setting up scenario to skew son's thoughts

[Shears]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Georgia.

It's an essay - trying to give all the background I can - ignore this if you're short on time!!

What to do (legally and 'parenting-wise') when ex is giving selective facts to our son without the full explanation? I have already contacted an attorney about the actual visitation-interruption issue here; the ex's manipulation has recently come to my attention, and is what I'm questioning in this post, because a) I can't afford multiple phone calls to atty, and b) I'm also looking to the experience of the parents here for how to handle this emotionally with my son.

My ex's most recent move, and school change for our son, has resulted in an increase in commute from 40-60 minutes (each way) to 75-105 minutes from our home to school on my visitation days (Thurs afternoon through Monday morning). The reason for the large range in either commute is the unpredictability and inconsistency in metro Atlanta traffic. While her recent move results in one mile less in the commute than the previous school, it is minimum 30 minutes more than the previous 40-60 minute commute due to the lack of interstate highway between my house and this new city. I've traveled this route in the past during, and also not during, rush hour for his pediatrician appointments, so I'm well aware of the travel time. This doesn't even take into account my travel time at that point to work. This is just my son's time in the car.

With the advent of homework in second grade, the previous commute was already worrisome. Homework assignments are given on Monday, due Friday, with tests on Friday as well. Mom wasn't ensuring homework completion during the week, so the past 2 months of Thursdays have consisted of getting home around 6:45, guiding my son through 4 nights of homework (I don't 'do his homework for him'), cramming in dinner, and getting him to bed at an inappropriate hour (usually 9:30-10) for a child who has to get up at 6 a/m to commute back to school. And take tests, and try to maintain behavior (addressed in a previous post).

I communicated to my ex that if she went forward with her move, that until I could address it with the court I would no longer be picking our son up on Thursdays, and that visitation for now would need to be Friday after school through Sunday night, as the current visitation is unproductive and inappropriate for him if he goes to this new school.

This week my son communicated to me (without prompting or questioning from me - my son likes to make 'announcements', which strikes me as curious, but that's another discussion) that 'my mom said I'm starting a new school this week and it's a mile closer to our house'. I asked him if anything else was explained to him about the school change, and he said 'no'. What logical, mature reason was there to just 'happen to' tell our son 'your new school is a mile closer to your dad's house', with no further comment? And what would be going through his head if he hadn't made this announcement - what would go through his head when it came time for me to have the discussion with him about the schedule change without knowing this, not knowing I'd need to explain 'mileage' versus 'time' to a child?

I am so upset beyond words about this. I do *not* want my son in the middle of this. Yet if I don't explain the truth, and deal with the attempted slight on my ex's part, he is left thinking I'm just giving up time with him, which couldn't be further from the truth. I am trying to gain sole physical custody of him, but he can't understand all of this right now!!! He's 7!

For now, I explained some things are changing with our schedule for right now, and that yes, while the mileage is one mile shorter on the new route, the roads are very different, and the new route is much longer. We talked about the different kinds of roads he's ridden on, and what a highway is, and what a 'back road' is based on his experience. I assured him I'm working on getting things sorted out so we can continue to have as much time together as possible, if not more.

I can't throw my son in the car and take the two routes on different mornings with a stopwatch and a video camera! And my ex has put me in a he-said-she-said situation that I will NOT put my son through.

My stomach is in knots, and I needed to vent.

Any further parenting advice from anyone who experiences this type of manipulation? Anything illegal going on here on my ex's part, with her trying to mess with his head?

 

[cyjeff]

STOP RIGHT NOW.

Your son does not need to know ANY of the details in the custody wars you are going through. NONE.

So you have a longer commute. You adjust. You eat dinner in the car on Thursdays so you can hit the ground running on homework. You work on homework in the car. In the mornings, he can sleep in the car on the way in.

You adjust and deal with it. I have been a commuter for years and have an almost obsessive bent towards finding new "undiscovered" ways to drive to anywhere, anytime.

You can too.

To say that the commute is too long and so, therefore, you just won't go see your child is absolutely terrible. Don't you see that tells your son that your time with him is just too inconvenient?

Man up. Move closer. Whatever it takes.

 

[AbbaDabba730]

maybe I am not understanding your post, but you are saying that mom is changing schools to be closer to you only to play mind games with the son to get to you? Am I missing something?

 

[PQN]

I can walk 1 mile in 15 minutes....

There is no where that 1 mile change is going to equal that big of a travel time difference. Take the same route you did to the old school, then drive the 1 mile (even on a bad day that should be less than 10 minutes).

If you no longer wish to see your son on Thursdays, for whatever reason, man up and say so but don't pretend that 1 mile is going to be the deal breaker.

 

[Shears]

STOP RIGHT NOW.

Your son does not need to know ANY of the details in the custody wars you are going through. NONE.

So you have a longer commute. You adjust. You eat dinner in the car on Thursdays so you can hit the ground running on homework. You work on homework in the car. In the mornings, he can sleep in the car on the way in.

You adjust and deal with it. I have been a commuter for years and have an almost obsessive bent towards finding new "undiscovered" ways to drive to anywhere, anytime.

You can too.

To say that the commute is too long and so, therefore, you just won't go see your child is absolutely terrible. Don't you see that tells your son that your time with him is just too inconvenient?

Man up. Move closer. Whatever it takes.

My visitation is being interrupted. A child should not spend 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours a day in a car on a routine basis on school days. No matter how this ends (with my getting custody or not), I will *not* forfeit my visitation time with my son. If I don't get custody, we are going to have to modify the visitation to get that time back in an alternative way (additional weekends, giving me all holidays instead of alternating, etc.). I have already sought an attorney's advice on this, and am taking the legal steps he has guided me to take.

My question here is about the manipulation that is occurring: is this a legal issue?

And, my question was about any parental advice on the least amount of info I can give my son to make sure he doesn't wonder wth is going on here - he doesn't need any more details in this adult, legal crud than he's *already* been given, thanks to my ex. He didn't need that comment from her. He just needed to understand that changes are happening that affect *his life*, and he needed to understand it in a way that didn't cast mommy or daddy in a bad light, even if the two of us aren't fond of each other's decisions.

 

[Shears]

There is no where that 1 mile change is going to equal that big of a travel time difference. Take the same route you did to the old school, then drive the 1 mile (even on a bad day that should be less than 10 minutes).

If you no longer wish to see your son on Thursdays, for whatever reason, man up and say so but don't pretend that 1 mile is going to be the deal breaker.

I can't post the actual addresses/locations on here, because that's a bit too much identification (privacy). But I assure you it is that much of a difference. Anyone who has lived in this city for any length of time (which would include a judge) would know that.

And for the record, I will in fact be taking the two routes on my own, with a video camera, in the a/m, to have as evidence for court. (Assuming that's even legal evidence?? If not, whatever the accepted legal method is to provide the factual evidence is what I will do. It's a fact - it's not my made-up story.)

The visitation interruption is not what is in question here.

 

[AbbaDabba730]

My visitation is being interrupted. A child should not spend 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours a day in a car on a routine basis on school days. No matter how this ends (with my getting custody or not), I will *not* forfeit my visitation time with my son. If I don't get custody, we are going to have to modify the visitation to get that time back in an alternative way (additional weekends, giving me all holidays instead of alternating, etc.). I have already sought an attorney's advice on this, and am taking the legal steps he has guided me to take.

My question here is about the manipulation that is occurring: is this a legal issue?

And, my question was about any parental advice on the least amount of info I can give my son to make sure he doesn't wonder wth is going on here - he doesn't need any more details in this adult, legal crud than he's *already* been given, thanks to my ex. He didn't need that comment from her. He just needed to understand that changes are happening that affect *his life*, and he needed to understand it in a way that didn't cast mommy or daddy in a bad light, even if the two of us aren't fond of each other's decisions.

you said that the previous communte was 60 min each way so that would be 2 hours of car time, so you are saying that an extra 30 mins (mind you I do not believe a mile mile difference would cause that, but ok) would be the deal breaker? And its not on a regular basis it's one day a week.

Give me a break.

 

[Shears]

you said that the previous communte was 60 min each way so that would be 2 hours of car time, so you are saying that an extra 30 mins (mind you I do not believe a mile mile difference would cause that, but ok) would be the deal breaker? And its not on a regular basis it's one day a week.

Give me a break.

Sigh. It's 3 days a week. *Minimum* 2 1/2 hours in the car. The visitation is being interrupted. Lawyer has stated as much as well. This is not what is in question with this post. The question was stated at the beginning and at the end of the post. With lots of background in between in order to not have anyone have to pull teeth throughout the thread with questions about the background.

 

[AbbaDabba730]

Sigh. It's 3 days a week. *Minimum* 2 1/2 hours in the car. The visitation is being interrupted. Lawyer has stated as much as well. This is not what is in question with this post. The question was stated at the beginning and at the end of the post. With lots of background in between in order to not have anyone have to pull teeth throughout the thread with questions about the background.

okay...telling a child that they are starting a new school is not manipulative bahavior, or brain washing, or trying to mess with their head.

Maybe you should question your own motives and why you think that people saying things are out to get you.

Ask your lawyer, or maybe a therapist

 

[CSO286]

My visitation is being interrupted. A child should not spend 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 hours a day in a car on a routine basis on school days.

Seriously? I used to spend 3 hours a day on a bus! Without the beneift of spending time with either parent, no matter who I was supposed to be spending time with. And I was little....6,7,8.
I'm afraid taht I'm not seeing the mainpulation that your talking about. It sounds like the CP told child that "you're going t a new schol that a mile closer to dad." Might not be earth shattering, but, t me, that sounds like it's a baby step in the right direction parent-wise.

Am I missing something?


Typos are blamed on my stupid bum hand and I'm not fixing them unless they result in misinformation.

 

[mistoffolees]

Drop all the emotional stuff and the whining.

Legally:

1. If the court order doesn't say anything about Mom moving, she can move. If it has a limit on how far she's allowed to move, then that's the limit. The Court Order rules. If the court order says she can't move more than 30 miles from you and she has moved 40 miles, then you could go to court to ask for a change in the custody and/or visitation part of the order.

2. You can't arbitrarily change the court order because you don't like your commute. If you choose not to get the child on Thursdays, that's your choice, but that doesn't give you the right to demand more time.

3. If you AND YOUR EX agree on a change, it is unenforceable unless you submit that change to the court.

4. Parents say bad things about their ex. It's just a fact of life. It is possible to get a 'no-disparagement' clause in your order, but it's pretty useless since you can't ask the child to testify so there's probably no evidence. In most cases, you simply ignore it. If your ex says you're a mass murderer, your child will have to decide whether to believe it or not. (There are exceptions that are so egregious that the court might step in, but they're the exception and very difficult to prove).

Furthermore, I don't see anything manipulative on your ex's part. She told the kid he's going to a new school and it's a mile closer to YOUR house. What is manipulative about that? And why is it harmful for the child to know that? (I'm also a little suspicious of your claims that even though the new school is a mile closer to your house that it's going to add umpteen hours of driving time).

Bottom line is that you need to be talking with your ex about it. There's no need for you to be involving your son in discussions about driving distance and how inconvenient the new school is for you.

 

[acmb05]

(I'm also a little suspicious of your claims that even though the new school is a mile closer to your house that it's going to add umpteen hours of driving time).
Bottom line is that you need to be talking with your ex about it. There's no need for you to be involving your son in discussions about driving distance and how inconvenient the new school is for you.

Apparently you and the other poster who mentioned this have never lived in Atlanta or one of it's suburbs.

I could take you a half dozen or more area's that this could happen in.

 

[Shears]

Drop all the emotional stuff and the whining.

Legally:

1. If the court order doesn't say anything about Mom moving, she can move. If it has a limit on how far she's allowed to move, then that's the limit. The Court Order rules. If the court order says she can't move more than 30 miles from you and she has moved 40 miles, then you could go to court to ask for a change in the custody and/or visitation part of the order.

2. You can't arbitrarily change the court order because you don't like your commute. If you choose not to get the child on Thursdays, that's your choice, but that doesn't give you the right to demand more time.

Atty has advised that this move is an interruption to visitation, and at a minimum we should be able to easily successfully address modifying visitation days (to recoup my days elsewhere) due to her decision to move.

3. If you AND YOUR EX agree on a change, it is unenforceable unless you submit that change to the court.

4. Parents say bad things about their ex. It's just a fact of life. It is possible to get a 'no-disparagement' clause in your order, but it's pretty useless since you can't ask the child to testify so there's probably no evidence. In most cases, you simply ignore it. If your ex says you're a mass murderer, your child will have to decide whether to believe it or not. (There are exceptions that are so egregious that the court might step in, but they're the exception and very difficult to prove).

Thanks for the legal answer to my question.

Furthermore, I don't see anything manipulative on your ex's part. She told the kid he's going to a new school and it's a mile closer to YOUR house. What is manipulative about that? And why is it harmful for the child to know that? (I'm also a little suspicious of your claims that even though the new school is a mile closer to your house that it's going to add umpteen hours of driving time).

What do you think the point was of telling him that, and leaving it at that? Knowing the impending change?

Bottom line is that you need to be talking with your ex about it. There's no need for you to be involving your son in discussions about driving distance and how inconvenient the new school is for you.

Agreed - no need to involve son. But she involved him. I do damage control, where I try to not disparage other parent, but make sure my son isn't 'led' to any conclusions. I'm not going to explain the legal proceedings that are about to take place that will determine our future schedule, be it a rearrangement of days, or change of custody. Not his concern, and I'm pretty heated right now that selective details are being fed to him. I can talk to my ex all I want, but I can't control anything she does or says to our son. I can only be responsible for what I say, and it's a challenge. Was looking for experience from other parents in this situation in addition to the legality of the question.

 

[AbbaDabba730]

What do you think the point was of telling him that, and leaving it at that? Knowing the impending change?

Would you rather her not tell your son and have her just drop him off at a new school?

 

[Shears]

Would you rather her not tell your son and have her just drop him off at a new school?

If I got a choice in the matter, I'd rather she talk to our son about his new school, ask him how he feels about the change of schools mid-year, address those feelings, talk about meeting new friends, and if/how to keep in touch with old ones, and how to transition to new school environment since he's moving from a Montessori environment to a traditional one, etc.

I'd also love it if she communicated with me, and we determined together, which parent would introduce the discussion with him about the interim visitation schedule change. That'd be great. It might even be considered co-parenting.

Then one, or both, of us could address the visitation change, explaining that the *distance* (*not* mileage or time) is significantly greater between the new school and my home, and we are working on sorting that out.

He's 7. He doesn't just 'know' about mileage vs. time, and doesn't need it 'proven' to him by either parent. He doesn't know that going to bed at 10:00, and waking up at 5:30, is not healthy for him. The adults are supposed to address these things without involving him. And he doesn't need to know what 'sorting that out' means - that it means lawyers and courts and orders and mommy and daddy disagreeing about all of it.

So no, I don't think telling him "You're going to a new school, and it's a mile closer to daddy's house!", with no other discussion, was productive for *him* AT ALL.

Think about this for a minute: his old school was not 'convenient' for *me*. It was a 28 mile, and 40-60 minute drive for us, then 30 minutes to my job. I've been doing it since 2008. Not convenient for me at all, but I never said a word. Her new residency move is temporary; according to her, it is for 18 months, and then she doesn't know where she'll move. I asked (as one of many options) that she keep our son in his current school, which is NOT convenient for me, but stable for him. Her response was that it would be, in her words, "impossible" for her to make that drive from new house to old school. It would be a 20-mile drive, 30-40 minute drive for her. She works part-time at dad's store, with flexible hours. No other job. Do you think I've told my son any of this information? No. And I won't. Although it's the FULL truth. But he doesn't need to hear that ugly adult truth.