Warning: 3rd Party Questions

[CJane]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? KS

I'm just trying to gather general information for a friend, and most of it that I can find seems to be out of context.

The basics:

• Child is almost 2
• Parents split time exactly 50/50 since child was a couple months old
• Prior to current order for 50/50, parents lived together
• Schedule is: Dad has kiddo when he's off work. 2 days one week, 5 the next.
• On work days, Dad works a 12 hour overnight shift 6-6
• Mom works full time days and child is in daycare on her time.
• On Dad's time, no daycare is used, and all time is actually spent with Dad

Mom recently filed for full custody and relocation permission. She wishes to move to TX.

At prelim hearing, judge ordered homestudy in each household, denied Mom's request for instant relief (she wants to be gone by mid Jan) and set new hearing for Feb.

SO. I'm trying to find information on homestudies in KS. From what I gather, this is similar to the type of investigation that a GAL would do in my state. However, a google search has revealed mostly adoption-related information.

I guess that basically I want to know if they're essentially the same thing, and what information I should give my friend. I've seen him with his child, and there is NO WAY that the child deserves to be taken so far away from him. He's truly an awesome Daddy, and seriously upstanding citizen.

I do not know mom at all. Never met her.

She has proposed that they agree to a 3 month on/3 month off schedule, which is, of course, absurd.

I have no experience with KS, and aside from my sisters' custody orders, which are very atypical, no up close and personal knowledge.

I just want to be able to guide him to the right information. Help?

Also, if we were placing odds... is his work schedule a serious issue? Scale of 1-10 here, with 10 being "holy crap, change it now" and 1 being "eh, it's not ideal, but its workable".

 

[Perky]

Did you see these? They're related to divorce situations.

Rose & Nelson | Child Custody, page 2

What Happens if There is a Dispute Between the Parents About What is Best for the Child?
Mediation. If there are any issues regarding custody or visitation that cannot be worked out between the parents, a "mediation" conference with a neutral mediator may be requested to see if you and your spouse can work out an agreement about the child.

Home Study. If mediation does not bring about an agreement on disputed custody and visitation issues, the court may order a "home study." A home study is an investigation into various aspects of the home life of the parties' child. Included in a home study may be interviews with the parties, friends, neighbors, relatives and, on some occasions, the children themselves. When the investigation is complete, a home study report is prepared and submitted to the court. This report is confidential and the parties generally cannot have access to the report.

Trial. If, after mediation, there are still issues regarding custody or visitation that cannot be worked out between the parents, a "trial" will be scheduled. Testimony and evidence is presented at the trial to the judge assigned to a case showing what would be in the best interests of the child. Although the judge will have benefit of any child custody investigation that has been performed, the court will make its own decision about what is in the best interests of the child at the conclusion of the trial.

Divorce 101 Lenexa Kansas Child Support Lawyer Louisburg KS Child Custody Attorney

Home Study — A home study is an evaluation done by an independent neutral third party for the purpose of making a recommendation where the children should reside. A home study is an in depth process and will take several months.

 

[CJane]

Did you see these? They're related to divorce situations.

Rose & Nelson | Child Custody, page 2



Divorce 101 Lenexa Kansas Child Support Lawyer Louisburg KS Child Custody Attorney

Yes, thanks. Those were the two that made me think that they must be similar to a GAL investigation in Missouri (or, I suppose, other states).

There's a LOT more info for home studies when adoption is involved, and I'm wondering how similar those are (as in, if he spoke to someone who'd been through the adoption process in KS, how similar would the situation be, homestudy-wise)?

Also, a detail I forgot to add because I didn't even think about it...

Dad lives with a roommate. Child has her own room at Dad's house, there are no issues with roommate and Mom is not making that an issue, but I realize it's not "ideal". Or, does it even matter?

 

[Tex78704]

A homestudy will present some problems and a challenge for the evaluator, unless mom's planned home environment in Texas is already known, which would be most likely if she is moving in with family there. Beyond GALs, homestudies are also done by licensed psychologists and such.

Adoption homestudies are typically one sided, as opposed to disputed custody cases which often boils down to which home environment is better than the other.

While the report may be confidential with limited access, it should be accessible enough that the evaluator can be challenged on the basis of his or her recommendations on the witness stand as necessary.

A roomate who can be shown as a responsible adult is good thing, and in the case of a single parent, and from a support network perspective, the net effect could easily be positive. Conversely, if the roomie can be shown to be a little dicey, this could work against dad.

Expect opposing counsel to zero in on dad's current night shift work schedule, and try to show how this will negatively impact his ability to take custody of the child full time (and even with the proposed 3 month schedule). Without an established support group at home, this kind of work schedule is very difficult to manage with a child, and tenuous at best. But it also depends upon how far away from work he lives, how flexible he is with his schedule to run quickly home if needed, and who will regularly be caring for the child in the evenings he has to work.

 

[CJane]

A homestudy will present some problems and a challenge for the evaluator, unless mom's planned home environment in Texas is already known, which would be most likely if she is moving in with family there.

That is not her plan. Her extended family is in Kansas.

A roomate who can be shown as a responsible adult is good thing, and in the case of a single parent, and from a support network perspective, the net effect could easily be positive. Conversely, if the roomie can be shown to be a little dicey, this could work against dad.

Roommate and Dad are in the same profession. "Dicey" would not be professionally accepted, so I don't think that's an issue.

Expect opposing counsel to zero in on dad's current night shift work schedule, and try to show how this will negatively impact his ability to take custody of the child full time (and even with the proposed 3 month schedule). Without an established support group at home, this kind of work schedule is very difficult to manage with a child, and tenuous at best. But it also depends upon how far away from work he lives, how flexible he is with his schedule to run quickly home if needed, and who will regularly be caring for the child in the evenings he has to work.

The above is what I was thinking, so it's nice to have it confirmed. A support network isn't an issue, really. Dad's entire family (as well as Mom's) lives in the same town as the parents and child currently live in. Dad has his son for 3 months every summer and has had since that child was 4. There's never been an issue with work conflicting with the care of that child.

Basically, if Dad were awarded custody (and I'm not entirely sure that Mom would move if that were the case), instead of going to daycare all day while Mom works, child would be picked up by Dad around noon, and spend her day with him, and then spend her overnight hours - dinner/bath/bedtime - with family 2 days one week and 5 the next. Obviously on his off days, he'd be 100% available to the child as he is now.

Dad will take custody if it's awarded to him, but he is not pursuing it actively unless it's the only way he can preserve his relationship with his child. What he wants is for Mom to stay here with the child and things to remain as they are now. He recognizes that it's not in the child's best interests to be separated from either parent for long periods of time.

 

[LdiJ]

That is not her plan. Her extended family is in Kansas.



Roommate and Dad are in the same profession. "Dicey" would not be professionally accepted, so I don't think that's an issue.



The above is what I was thinking, so it's nice to have it confirmed. A support network isn't an issue, really. Dad's entire family (as well as Mom's) lives in the same town as the parents and child currently live in. Dad has his son for 3 months every summer and has had since that child was 4. There's never been an issue with work conflicting with the care of that child.

Basically, if Dad were awarded custody (and I'm not entirely sure that Mom would move if that were the case), instead of going to daycare all day while Mom works, child would be picked up by Dad around noon, and spend her day with him, and then spend her overnight hours - dinner/bath/bedtime - with family 2 days one week and 5 the next. Obviously on his off days, he'd be 100% available to the child as he is now.

Dad will take custody if it's awarded to him, but he is not pursuing it actively unless it's the only way he can preserve his relationship with his child. What he wants is for Mom to stay here with the child and things to remain as they are now. He recognizes that it's not in the child's best interests to be separated from either parent for long periods of time.

Hopefully mom will stay if it looks like she is going to lose. Quite frankly I cannot remember the last time we have seen a 50/50 situation where one of the parents got permission to relocate with their child.

I do think however that his work schedule is the one thing that might cause him a problem.

 

[mistoffolees]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? KS

I'm just trying to gather general information for a friend, and most of it that I can find seems to be out of context.

The basics:

• Child is almost 2
• Parents split time exactly 50/50 since child was a couple months old
• Prior to current order for 50/50, parents lived together
• Schedule is: Dad has kiddo when he's off work. 2 days one week, 5 the next.
• On work days, Dad works a 12 hour overnight shift 6-6
• Mom works full time days and child is in daycare on her time.
• On Dad's time, no daycare is used, and all time is actually spent with Dad

Mom recently filed for full custody and relocation permission. She wishes to move to TX.

At prelim hearing, judge ordered homestudy in each household, denied Mom's request for instant relief (she wants to be gone by mid Jan) and set new hearing for Feb.

SO. I'm trying to find information on homestudies in KS. From what I gather, this is similar to the type of investigation that a GAL would do in my state. However, a google search has revealed mostly adoption-related information.

I guess that basically I want to know if they're essentially the same thing, and what information I should give my friend. I've seen him with his child, and there is NO WAY that the child deserves to be taken so far away from him. He's truly an awesome Daddy, and seriously upstanding citizen.

I do not know mom at all. Never met her.

She has proposed that they agree to a 3 month on/3 month off schedule, which is, of course, absurd.

I have no experience with KS, and aside from my sisters' custody orders, which are very atypical, no up close and personal knowledge.

I just want to be able to guide him to the right information. Help?

Also, if we were placing odds... is his work schedule a serious issue? Scale of 1-10 here, with 10 being "holy crap, change it now" and 1 being "eh, it's not ideal, but its workable".

Really, your friend needs to be the one asking the questions.

In general, I don't see anything that suggests that it's better for the child to be forced to move. What is the argument for it being in the CHILD'S best interests to move?

If Dad can work out child care, he has a very good chance of the child staying. Or perhaps Dad can get a different shift. Bottom line is that the person requesting the change has to show why it's better.

 

[gam]

Different states, different courts, so keep that in mind. My daughter works 16 hour shifts. 2 days one week she works 7a-11:30p, 4 days the next week she works 3:30p-7a. On the 4 day week, 2 of the 4 are the weekend, when dad has his EOW time with child.

This went to court, dad works day shift 5a-5p, 5 days a week. He filed for custody, very least he wanted 50/50 based on daughters work schedule. When you do the math, he worked more hours, and all his hours were during childs wake time. Cost for daycare would be higher with his schedule, mom had free care for non daytime working hours. Plus as I said above, 2 of the 4 day work week, are weekend days, when dad has child, child would not be with mom anyways. If schedule was 50/50 on his week, child would have to be up very early to be taken to some kind of care, which in this area daycare's are not open that early. Or woken very early to be brought to mom to care for, since she worked few days. If child was left as is(with mom), free care was right in mom's home, child was not taken to daycare, not woken early, in own bed at normal bed time.

The court felt of the 2 work schedules, mom's was better all around for the child. It was also cheaper for both parties as daycare was not needed. While child had days with mom gone for long periods, he also had more days with mom home.

Point being for your friend, maybe mom's schedule will help his non daytime schedule.

 

[CJane]

Really, your friend needs to be the one asking the questions.

And I'm sure he would be if he was the one looking for the information. But he's not, I am. Partly so I can encourage/advise him, and partly because being curious is in my nature.

In general, I don't see anything that suggests that it's better for the child to be forced to move. What is the argument for it being in the CHILD'S best interests to move?

Seriously? Golden uterus syndrome. I don't think it even occurred to Mom until court this week that the judge wouldn't just hand her the keys to the kingdom.

She's moving for her new boyfriend.

If Dad can work out child care, he has a very good chance of the child staying. Or perhaps Dad can get a different shift. Bottom line is that the person requesting the change has to show why it's better.

I don't think it's likely his shift will change, but child care isn't a problem. The roommate works an opposite shift, and again, there is a LOT of family in the area. Gawd, I don't even generally like other people's kids, and I'd be willing to watch her for him one or two of those nights if it meant she wasn't moved so far away from her Daddy.

He's been with this department for 6 years and always worked this shift. When he and Mom were together, it was ideal because he was home during the day and she was home in the evening and kiddo only needed to go to daycare from 730-noon.

NOW Mom wants to make it an issue.

Dad's work schedule is:

Week 1: MT FSS
Week 2: WT
Week 3: MT FSS
Week 4: WT

 

[Monte86]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? KS

I'm just trying to gather general information for a friend, and most of it that I can find seems to be out of context.

The basics:

• Child is almost 2
• Parents split time exactly 50/50 since child was a couple months old
• Prior to current order for 50/50, parents lived together
• Schedule is: Dad has kiddo when he's off work. 2 days one week, 5 the next.
• On work days, Dad works a 12 hour overnight shift 6-6
• Mom works full time days and child is in daycare on her time.
• On Dad's time, no daycare is used, and all time is actually spent with Dad

Mom recently filed for full custody and relocation permission. She wishes to move to TX.

At prelim hearing, judge ordered homestudy in each household, denied Mom's request for instant relief (she wants to be gone by mid Jan) and set new hearing for Feb.

SO. I'm trying to find information on homestudies in KS. From what I gather, this is similar to the type of investigation that a GAL would do in my state. However, a google search has revealed mostly adoption-related information.

I guess that basically I want to know if they're essentially the same thing, and what information I should give my friend. I've seen him with his child, and there is NO WAY that the child deserves to be taken so far away from him. He's truly an awesome Daddy, and seriously upstanding citizen.

I do not know mom at all. Never met her.

She has proposed that they agree to a 3 month on/3 month off schedule, which is, of course, absurd.

I have no experience with KS, and aside from my sisters' custody orders, which are very atypical, no up close and personal knowledge.

I just want to be able to guide him to the right information. Help?

Also, if we were placing odds... is his work schedule a serious issue? Scale of 1-10 here, with 10 being "holy crap, change it now" and 1 being "eh, it's not ideal, but its workable".

Just from experience, a "home study" I believe is different. I could be wrong, so I will it up to more senior members to answer for sure. I have friends/family that have adopted and has their kids taken by DFS (home studies) and friends that have had GAL's (custody cases). The home studies are usually more intense than those that have had GAL's. I have never heard of someone having a home study for a custody case (and I do have friends/family in kansas).
As far as his hours, I could see that working for an older child (in school) but you said the child was 2 right? I think it would be hard. I would say on a scale of 1-10 probably about 4. Its not horrible but 12 hours of day care is awfully long.

 

[gam]

While 12 hours a day is awfully long, dad in this case has 5 days the one week he does not work at all. Working a normal 5 day, 8 hour, day shift, only gives you 2 days off a week. Dad has a total of 7 days off in a 2 week period, while a normal working schedule only has 4 days off in a 2 week period.

My daughter found she spent way more waking hours with her young child working the 16 hour shifts, less days a week, then she did working a normal 5 day, day shift.

Child is now in school, and her schedule still is working great, plus she now also has a year old child, works great for both. It also allows her all kinds of extra time to volunteer in her child's classroom. Usually working odd ball hours, you find family or private sitters, cost is much less then paying a daycare. She is really lucky to, as family sitters go to her house, no dragging the kids out, they sleep in their own beds, and don't have to wake early to go to daycare.

Dad needs to present his odd ball schedule in the right light.

 

[mistoffolees]

Seriously? Golden uterus syndrome. I don't think it even occurred to Mom until court this week that the judge wouldn't just hand her the keys to the kingdom.

She's moving for her new boyfriend.

Why am I not surprised?

I don't think it's likely his shift will change, but child care isn't a problem. The roommate works an opposite shift, and again, there is a LOT of family in the area. Gawd, I don't even generally like other people's kids, and I'd be willing to watch her for him one or two of those nights if it meant she wasn't moved so far away from her Daddy.

He's been with this department for 6 years and always worked this shift. When he and Mom were together, it was ideal because he was home during the day and she was home in the evening and kiddo only needed to go to daycare from 730-noon.

NOW Mom wants to make it an issue.

Dad's work schedule is:

Week 1: MT FSS
Week 2: WT
Week 3: MT FSS
Week 4: WT

I can't really add anything else. If he has good day care and family in the area, his schedule isn't all that bad - after all, he gets 5 uninterrupted days every other week to spend with the child (although changing sleep schedule can be a nightmare).

Mom has to provide to the court reasonable justification as to why it's better for the child. I just don't see it.

 

[CJane]

Why am I not surprised?

I can't say I was surprised. Doesn't mean I didn't want to give her a knuckle sammich.

schedule isn't all that bad - after all, he gets 5 uninterrupted days every other week to spend with the child (although changing sleep schedule can be a nightmare).

Basically, what I've told him is that if the court thought 50/50 was ok over a year ago, and nothing except mom's love life has changed, he shouldn't have much to worry about.

The sleep schedule sucks for him, but he's as used to it as I suppose you ever get. 6 years with this dept, and a couple years on the same shift for a different dept. I don't think he's ever worked a normal shift.

I just hope I'm right.

And before anyone asks... Who am I in this? Just a concerned friend. Nothing more.

 

[LdiJ]

I can't say I was surprised. Doesn't mean I didn't want to give her a knuckle sammich.



Basically, what I've told him is that if the court thought 50/50 was ok over a year ago, and nothing except mom's love life has changed, he shouldn't have much to worry about.

The sleep schedule sucks for him, but he's as used to it as I suppose you ever get. 6 years with this dept, and a couple years on the same shift for a different dept. I don't think he's ever worked a normal shift.

I just hope I'm right.

And before anyone asks... Who am I in this? Just a concerned friend. Nothing more.

The more I think about it, the more dad's work schedule (other than sleep cycles) seems absolutely ideal for a 50/50 custody situation. When he has his child, he can focus solely on his child.

I REALLY hope that mom gets her head out of her butt and realizes that she needs to stay put.

 

[mistoffolees]

Basically, what I've told him is that if the court thought 50/50 was ok over a year ago, and nothing except mom's love life has changed, he shouldn't have much to worry about.

I'm a little hesitant to make your last statement. You've been around enough to know that all sorts of squirrelly things happen in court. It's fair to say that Dad has a great deal on his side and has a good chance of winning, but I wouldn't want him to slack off because 'there's nothing to worry about'. Even with the law and facts on his side, it's still absolutely essential to do everything right in terms of all the court procedures - preferably with an attorney at his side.