California Education Code Section 66450-66452 Question

[aehardin]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?
California

I would like some clarification regarding California Education Section Code 66450 - 66452. I am looking into starting a company similar to NoteHall.com. The buiness model is that students upload notes, sell them to other students, we act as the middleman and take a percentage of each sale. My question is does California Legal Code 66450-66452 make this illegal in California or is there grey area allowing us to provide this service to some universities?

Section 66450 states that it is illegal to do so for financial gain, but section 66452 says that only certain universites are required to create policies enforcing 66540. Any information would be great!

Here is the code:

EDUCATION CODE
SECTION 1-11

2. The code establishes the law of this state respecting the
subjects to which it relates, and its provisions and all proceedings
under it are to be liberally construed, with a view to effect its
objects and to promote justice.

EDUCATION CODE
SECTION 66450-66452



66450. (a) Except as authorized by policies developed in accordance
with subdivision (a) of Section 66452, no business, agency, or
person, including, but not necessarily limited to, an enrolled
student, shall prepare, cause to be prepared, give, sell, transfer,
or otherwise distribute or publish, for any commercial purpose, any
contemporaneous recording of an academic presentation in a classroom
or equivalent site of instruction by an instructor of record. This
prohibition applies to a recording made in any medium, including, but
not necessarily limited to, handwritten or typewritten class notes.
(b) Nothing in this section shall be construed to interfere with
the rights of disabled students under law.
(c) As used in this section:
(1) "Academic presentation" means any lecture, speech,
performance, exhibit, or other form of academic or aesthetic
presentation, made by an instructor of record as part of an
authorized course of instruction that is not fixed in a tangible
medium of expression.
(2) "Commercial purpose" means any purpose that has financial or
economic gain as an objective.
(3) "Instructor of record" means any teacher or staff member
employed to teach courses and authorize credit for the successful
completion of courses.


66451. (a) Any court of competent jurisdiction may grant relief
that it finds necessary to enforce this chapter, including the
issuance of an injunction. Any person injured by a violation of this
chapter, in addition to actual damages, may recover court costs,
attorney's fees, and a civil penalty from any person who is not a
student enrolled in the institution at which the instructor of record
makes his or her academic presentation and who seeks to obtain
financial or economic gain through the unauthorized dissemination of
the academic presentation. The amount of the civil penalty shall not
exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) for the first offense, five
thousand dollars ($5,000) for the second offense, and for any
subsequent offense, a penalty of not less than ten thousand dollars
($10,000) or more than twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000).
(b) Actions for any relief pursuant to this chapter may be
prosecuted in a court of competent jurisdiction by the Attorney
General or any district attorney or by any county counsel authorized
by agreement with the district attorney in actions involving
violation of a county ordinance, or any city attorney of a city, or
city and county, having a population in excess of 750,000, and, with
the consent of the district attorney, by a city prosecutor in any
city having a full-time city prosecutor or, with the consent of the
district attorney, by a city attorney in any city, or city and
county, in the name of the people of the State of California upon
their own complaint or upon the complaint of any board, officer,
person, corporation, or association or by any person acting for the
interests of itself, its members, or the general public.
(c) It does not constitute a violation of this chapter for a
business, agency, or person solely to provide access or connection to
or from a facility, system, or network over which that business,
agency, or person has no control, including related capabilities that
are incidental to providing access or connection. This subdivision
does not apply to a business or agency that is owned by, or to a
business, agency, or person that is controlled by, or a conspirator
with, a business, agency, or person actively involved in the
creation, editing, or knowing distribution of a contemporaneous
recording that violates this chapter.



66452. (a) The Regents of the University of California and the
governing boards of private postsecondary institutions are requested
to, the Trustees of the California State University shall, and the
governing board of each community college district may, in
consultation with faculty, in accordance with applicable procedures,
develop policies to prohibit the unauthorized recording,
dissemination, and publication of academic presentations for
commercial purposes. Nothing in this chapter is intended to change
existing law as it pertains to the ownership of academic
presentations.
(b) The Regents of the University of California and the governing
boards of private postsecondary institutions are requested to, the
Trustees of the California State University shall, and the governing
board of each community college district may, adopt or provide for
the adoption of specific regulations governing a violation of this
chapter by students, along with applicable penalties for a violation
of the regulations. The regents are requested to, the trustees shall,
and the governing board of each community college district may,
adopt procedures to inform all students of those regulations, with
applicable penalties, and any revisions thereof.

 

[Humusluvr]

Though I didn't read all the code you posted - it would seem that Notehall.com has several California Universities listed, and your service sounds EXACTLY the same as Notehall -sooooooo

How is your business any different? Where do you see the conflict with the code?

 

[aehardin]

My reply

The business model is different; this is just a portion of the revenue generating model. We are expanding off their idea, not only written notes, but video notes / tutorials, and potentially audio as well...as well as many other features in addition to this that college students would want and desire. We're just wondering if this portion of it would be legal or not and if we should forgo it altogether, offer it as a free service, or find a way around the law.

I'm wondering if the education code applies to all universities in California or not (public & private) because section 66452 states that "(a) The Regents of the University of California and the governing boards of private postsecondary institutions are requested to, the Trustees of the California State University shall, and the governing board of each community college district may,in consultation with faculty, in accordance with applicable procedures, develop policies to prohibit the unauthorized recording,
dissemination, and publication of academic presentations for
commercial purposes. Nothing in this chapter is intended to change
existing law as it pertains to the ownership of academic
presentations.

AND

Section 66450 state. (a) Except as authorized by policies developed in accordance with subdivision (a) of Section 66452....etc.

So if a University creates a policy saying it is okay or not specifically stating it is not okay, I'm wondering if that creates an exception to the rule? Opening a door to allow student to disseminate information and sell notes.

 

[Humusluvr]

The business model is different; this is just a portion of the revenue generating model. We are expanding off their idea, not only written notes, but video notes / tutorials, and potentially audio as well...as well as many other features in addition to this that college students would want and desire. We're just wondering if this portion of it would be legal or not and if we should forgo it altogether, offer it as a free service, or find a way around the law.

I'm wondering if the education code applies to all universities in California or not (public & private) because section 66452 states that "(a) The Regents of the University of California and the governing boards of private postsecondary institutions are requested to, the Trustees of the California State University shall, and the governing board of each community college district may,in consultation with faculty, in accordance with applicable procedures, develop policies to prohibit the unauthorized recording,
dissemination, and publication of academic presentations for
commercial purposes. Nothing in this chapter is intended to change
existing law as it pertains to the ownership of academic
presentations.

AND

Section 66450 state. (a) Except as authorized by policies developed in accordance with subdivision (a) of Section 66452....etc.

So if a University creates a policy saying it is okay or not specifically stating it is not okay, I'm wondering if that creates an exception to the rule? Opening a door to allow student to disseminate information and sell notes.

That's where I think you would get into trouble. If a student secretly video taped or audio taped me as I gave my lecture - I'm a college prof - and then sold it for profit, I would demand it be removed. I only allow those things if I'm made aware of it ahead of time, and if I found out they were being sold, that would violate my syllabus and the college rules. What if I decided to get on there and post my video and audio and my students bought from me? Clear conflict of interest.

And marketing directly to schools has it's own issues. Schools do not like you to target their students unless their aware of it, and a for profit company may be frowned upon.

 

[aehardin]

Reply

I am aware of those issues regarding copyright and intellectual property rights issues. The catch is that students wouldn't be allowed to videotape or uplod verbatum information, which would be plagurism. The students would have to upload their own intrepration of the lecture or subject. For example, a student's own Algebra notes based upon what they have learned.

A person cannot claim that they own information if it is widely know and they are restating it, for example a professor lecturing about genetics or C++ programming - because that information is not their own original concepts or theories - they are just restating it.

The goal is not to allow students to videotape, audio record, or verbatum recite lectures, but give students the chance to write up, video record, or audio record their own notes / tutorials on subject materials covered in a lecture and if they do pull information from an original source they should have permission, cite it or it can be flagged and be removed.

If you are in a Masters or PhD program and you are learning cutting edge original "reserach-based" material, I can understand the argument; but most undergraduate education is based upon re-dissemination of information.

The copyright/intellectual propery rights issues is an issue, but I am not worried about that; I am more so worried about the legalities of it in California (paid or free service).

 

[stealth2]

I am aware of those issues regarding copyright and intellectual property rights issues. The catch is that students wouldn't be allowed to videotape or uplod verbatum information, which would be plagurism. The students would have to upload their own intrepration of the lecture or subject. For example, a student's own Algebra notes based upon what they have learned.

A person cannot claim that they own information if it is widely know and they are restating it, for example a professor lecturing about genetics or C++ programming - because that information is not their own original concepts or theories - they are just restating it.

The goal is not to allow students to videotape, audio record, or verbatum recite lectures, but give students the chance to write up, video record, or audio record their own notes / tutorials on subject materials covered in a lecture and if they do pull information from an original source they should have permission, cite it or it can be flagged and be removed.

If you are in a Masters or PhD program and you are learning cutting edge original "reserach-based" material, I can understand the argument; but most undergraduate education is based upon re-dissemination of information.

The copyright/intellectual propery rights issues is an issue, but I am not worried about that; I am more so worried about the legalities of it in California (paid or free service).

Honestly? Someone who writes this horribly should not be involved in any sort of educational effort except improving their own. Get an education. THEN think about helping others with their own.

 

[Humusluvr]

I am aware of those issues regarding copyright and intellectual property rights issues. The catch is that students wouldn't be allowed to videotape or uplod verbatum information, which would be plagurism. The students would have to upload their own intrepration of the lecture or subject. For example, a student's own Algebra notes based upon what they have learned.

A person cannot claim that they own information if it is widely know and they are restating it, for example a professor lecturing about genetics or C++ programming - because that information is not their own original concepts or theories - they are just restating it.

The goal is not to allow students to videotape, audio record, or verbatum recite lectures, but give students the chance to write up, video record, or audio record their own notes / tutorials on subject materials covered in a lecture and if they do pull information from an original source they should have permission, cite it or it can be flagged and be removed.

If you are in a Masters or PhD program and you are learning cutting edge original "reserach-based" material, I can understand the argument; but most undergraduate education is based upon re-dissemination of information.

The copyright/intellectual propery rights issues is an issue, but I am not worried about that; I am more so worried about the legalities of it in California (paid or free service).

Are you only planning to do this for CA based universities?

I would honestly be more worried about intellectual property rights. Once this gets large enough - if it happens, and you find a significant niche - it would be difficult to police. You would end up in court over "selling lectures," or selling audio. This sounds like a lot of legal hassle.