Arrested for .074 in NYC. DWI/DWAI

[CdwJava]

Without SFSTs or some other articulated observations that show the objective signs of impairment, if this is how NYPD handles DUI cases, I am surprised that they are not universally beaten by an even mildly competent defense attorney. Either the bar is asleep out there, or the standard to prove impairment is awfully low.

I have heard of some very unusual (when compared to much of the rest of the country) things about the NYPD, but such a practice of no real report and no FSTs would be right up there with the silly.

 

[Billy V]

Without SFSTs or some other articulated observations that show the objective signs of impairment, if this is how NYPD handles DUI cases, I am surprised that they are not universally beaten by an even mildly competent defense attorney. Either the bar is asleep out there, or the standard to prove impairment is awfully low.

I have heard of some very unusual (when compared to much of the rest of the country) things about the NYPD, but such a practice of no real report and no FSTs would be right up there with the silly.

It IS the NYPD ... they manipulate crimes statistics etc.. maybe this is what you meant by "unusual"?

Top of the line law enforcement they are not.

 

[CdwJava]

It IS the NYPD ... they manipulate crimes statistics etc.. maybe this is what you meant by "unusual"?

Top of the line law enforcement they are not.

They have managed some very remarkable things, and have some cutting edge people and procedures, so I don't know that I'd be so dismissive of them. As for manipulating stats, well, that is a problem everywhere. You do realize that UCR/NIBRS reports are voluntary and can vary to some degree by reporting agency, correct? I recall an agency out here in the 90s that reported misdemeanor domestic violence that did not result in an arrest on a numbered field interview card and that was how they got away with complying with the state reporting requirement, but also got away without adding it to their UCR statistics.

I am not sure of what manipulations you refer, but stats are easily manipulated, twisted, or massaged depending on what you want to do with them.

By "unusual" I mean that they have a few procedural idiosyncrasies that often befuddle other agencies in other states. Not that they are "wrong," per se, just that they are different. The one that hit home personally a few years ago was their practice of not issuing an arrest warrant for wanted persons until after they are located. We had three homicide suspects in our area that they wanted but we would have been unable to do anything about them as there was no warrant in the system and aside from a handful of us that knew about their BOL, no other officer or agency in the state would have been able to identify or even lawfully detain them, for the most part.

 

[HighwayMan]

Without SFSTs or some other articulated observations that show the objective signs of impairment, if this is how NYPD handles DUI cases, I am surprised that they are not universally beaten by an even mildly competent defense attorney...

Of course there are usually objective signs of impairment noted, but in general, not much "police work" is done for a DWI arrest. Can't tell you how many times I've heard a call go out over the air for a unit with a PBT. I laugh when I hear those - I just think it's silly to depend on the PBT.

A few years back there was talk that the New York State Division of Criminal Justice Services was about to make SFST mandatory training for police academies - NYPD objected and this was either delayed or eliminated. When 1600 recruits are in an academy class training them would be a daunting task.

 

[HighwayMan]

...The one that hit home personally a few years ago was their practice of not issuing an arrest warrant for wanted persons until after they are located...

Well that's a new one on me - never heard of that. We pick up people on NYPD warrants fairly often. I am guessing your case was a mistake or oversight. Not sure if someone actually told you that's what they do - but based on working in and around New York City for 13 years I can say that seems false.

NYPD does their own thing - the city seems to be a world unto it's own. NYS DCJS requires all radar and lidar sets be brought/sent to them twice yearly for calibration testing. All of our sets go. NYPD sets do not.

A big one (to me) is that the NYS Criminal Procedure Law requires that persons arrested for "E" felonies and below get released on an appearance ticket by the arresting agency (barring certain unusual circumstances) - NYPD refers to these as Desk Appearance Tickets (DATs). Well one day a very wanted person was arrested and released on a DAT from the precinct - somebody made a boo-boo and didn't wait for the defendant's prints to come back. At that point NYPD came out with an Interim Order barring the issuance of DATs period. I believe they are being issued nowadays, but for a number of years individuals arrested for minor crimes and who would have been eligible for a DAT had to be booked and "go through the system". How that was dealt with legally I don't know - maybe there was some case law allowing it, but nothing I never heard of.

 

[HighwayMan]

...but such a practice of no real report and no FSTs would be right up there with the silly.

My agency has hired a number of NYPD officers over the years. In general, they are fine officers - very experienced and they know how to handle themselves in many different situations. One thing that seems universally difficult about the transition is report writing. NYPD officers do not write reports - or at least not what you and I would consider reports.

As I think I said, only now are some Highway Patrol officers learning SFST. My agency was involved in training a number of them - someone somewhere in NYPD woke up and discovered the value of this. Amazing.

It is difficult to imagine how the NYPD operates without having contact with that agency, especially if you are a police officer somewhere else in the country. Despite the negatives I seem to have emphasized, the NYPD is home to some of the finest cops and detectives in the world and overall I have a tremendous respect for them and the work they do.

But not DWI cases

 

[CdwJava]

Of course there are usually objective signs of impairment noted, but in general, not much "police work" is done for a DWI arrest. Can't tell you how many times I've heard a call go out over the air for a unit with a PBT. I laugh when I hear those - I just think it's silly to depend on the PBT.

I almost never use one as part of the FSTs. If I cannot determine the person is impaired based upon my observations (FST instructor and DRE), then the person is not getting arrested. The PBT is a crutch for those that are not properly trained or lack confidence in their evaluation.

"Well ... he might be impaired ... I'll ask if he'll blow in the PBT and then make the decision."

I don't like that concept at all.

A few years back there was talk that the New York State Division of Criminal Justice Services was about to make SFST mandatory training for police academies - NYPD objected and this was either delayed or eliminated. When 1600 recruits are in an academy class training them would be a daunting task.

It's mandatory out here and has been for ... well, for well over 20 years.

 

[CdwJava]

Well that's a new one on me - never heard of that. We pick up people on NYPD warrants fairly often. I am guessing your case was a mistake or oversight. Not sure if someone actually told you that's what they do - but based on working in and around New York City for 13 years I can say that seems false.

That's what I got from a detective working homicide at Major Crimes (is that 1 PP?). They had three suspects and a vehicle in our area and they had been profiled on America's Most Wanted and it showed up in town (supposedly). We ran them and the vehicle every way we could and no hits. When we called and finally got a hold of the investigating detective I learned a great deal about some of their practices. It may be different now, or it may only be a practice in certain types of cases, but it had to do with other procedural issues out there. He expressed surprise that other states do it differently because he recalled going to FL the year before and being told the same thing about having to secure a warrant before they could help.

NYPD does their own thing - the city seems to be a world unto it's own.

Sounds like San Francisco PD out here ...

 

[CdwJava]

It is difficult to imagine how the NYPD operates without having contact with that agency, especially if you are a police officer somewhere else in the country. Despite the negatives I seem to have emphasized, the NYPD is home to some of the finest cops and detectives in the world and overall I have a tremendous respect for them and the work they do.

But not DWI cases

I have always respected the work they have to do in the daunting environs. I have met a few NYPD cops over the years, and they have all been very proper men with (apparently) good heads on their shoulders.

It is because of these differences in laws and procedures that I often hesitate to comment on specific actions of agencies in other parts of the country. What is standard procedure out here may be unheard of elsewhere. Doesn't make one right and the other wrong, just different. In this case, I am surprised NYPD can even obtain an impaired driving conviction. A first year law school student should be able to win those!

 

[HighwayMan]

In this case, I am surprised NYPD can even obtain an impaired driving conviction. A first year law school student should be able to win those!

Part of it is understanding the New York City Criminal Court system. Honestly, from what I've seen not much attention is paid to DWI cases. Only two of five District Attorney's offices in the city have a Vehicle Crimes Unit and put time and effort into prosecuting these types of offenses.

The system is so overburdened I'm amazed it functions at all. Here we typically don't see the end results of prosecutions arising from our arrests so it is very hard to get a feel for what happens with alot of these cases.

 

[HighwayMan]

I almost never use one as part of the FSTs. If I cannot determine the person is impaired based upon my observations (FST instructor and DRE), then the person is not getting arrested. The PBT is a crutch for those that are not properly trained or lack confidence in their evaluation.

Well said, and I agree 100%. I have never used a PBT other than in training and have no desire to.

As far as the warrant issue is concerned... I know NYPD Central Warrants can be slow inputting warrants, but I cannot imagine them operating that way. Next time I have to speak to a detective in the Warrant Squad I'll make some inquiries!

 

[NewYorkCity15]

Minimum 6 month suspension. You would have been suspended initially prior to a refusal hearing. From everything you've said it doesn't seem like this was recorded as an official refusal. If it was then you will be scheduled for a refusal hearing - this is a DMV administrative hearing that takes place at 19 Rector Street in Manhattan.

A refusal hearing addresses three issues:

1) that there was a legitimate reason for the officer's contact with you (traffic stop, accident, etc)

2) that there was, in fact, probable cause for the arrest on the charge of DWI

3) that you did, in fact, refuse

Number 2 seems to be a big issue. But since the prosecution actually has a BAC number for you this tells me that a proper reading was obtained and that's not a refusal.

youre right I dont think theyre saying i refused the test (since i have no refusal hearing, but it sounds like theyre charging me with common law DWI, as i spoke to a couple of lawyers who said "it looks like" theyre charging me with common law DWI..i guess thats why my attorney at the arraignment said i refused.) but for common law DWI doesnt that mean that i would either have to have refused the test or been visably drunk? I find it hard to believe i was visably drunk and hope that the video at the precinct will back me up. And if there are no police reports, how does the officer remember what happened that night or how would they recall the events of the night? is there any report available? is there a way i can see for sure what Im being charged with ( i think its a common law DWI & a DWAI, but am uncertain)