QDRO Florida State Retirement

[MoreThanABlonde]

Need help, as I am unable to hire an attorney - and legal aide will not assist in regards to QDROs

10/16/2006 Final Judgment of Divorce states:
“The marital portion of the Husband’s pension including the DROP plan, and/or other retirement plans with the state of Florida shall be equally divided via Qualified Domestic Relations Order, or other mandated order.”

The current QDRO approved by the court (04/25/2007) after the Final Judgment (10/16/2006) is in the Former Wife’s former name. Former Wife’s name had been restored on 10/16/2006, reflecting that the current QDRO had been approved without adequate review.

The QDRO was filed on ex-husband's FRS Pension Plan. He had an attorney draft an amended QDRO, as he wishes to transfer into the Investment Plan and offered a lump sum amount - but refused to provide the current value of the Pension Plan (22 year Firefighter, estimation approx $1M)

According to his attorney's letter, I have realized:
"The Marital Interest in the equal division of the Florida Division of Retirement Pension is not truly equal, being that it remains fully dependent on the Former Husband’s life. In the event he would pass, it would result in a sudden decline in the Former Wife’s financial status without any doing on her part, thus the filed QDRO is not a true equitable division of the pension as presented in the property settlement agreement."

They offered take it or leave it, both you and your children will receive NOTHING! Yes, the attorney bold, underlined nothing repeatedly.

I requested the value information, and then filed a Notice of Production from Non Party, of course they filed a notice of objection.

What is my next step? I did get the paperwork to file a motion, and have summarized some information - but what will compel the Judge to approve the Notice of Production and also require an updated QDRO that will protect the 17 years I have invested into the Florida State Retirement System as the housewife of a firefighter?

I might add that I am currently on unemployment, attending school full-time under Federal Grants. Child support is no longer - boys are 18 & 21, and was not awarded alimony.

Any words of wisdom?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[LdiJ]

Need help, as I am unable to hire an attorney - and legal aide will not assist in regards to QDROs

10/16/2006 Final Judgment of Divorce states:
“The marital portion of the Husband’s pension including the DROP plan, and/or other retirement plans with the state of Florida shall be equally divided via Qualified Domestic Relations Order, or other mandated order.”

The current QDRO approved by the court (04/25/2007) after the Final Judgment (10/16/2006) is in the Former Wife’s former name. Former Wife’s name had been restored on 10/16/2006, reflecting that the current QDRO had been approved without adequate review.

The QDRO was filed on ex-husband's FRS Pension Plan. He had an attorney draft an amended QDRO, as he wishes to transfer into the Investment Plan and offered a lump sum amount - but refused to provide the current value of the Pension Plan (22 year Firefighter, estimation approx $1M)

According to his attorney's letter, I have realized:
"The Marital Interest in the equal division of the Florida Division of Retirement Pension is not truly equal, being that it remains fully dependent on the Former Husband’s life. In the event he would pass, it would result in a sudden decline in the Former Wife’s financial status without any doing on her part, thus the filed QDRO is not a true equitable division of the pension as presented in the property settlement agreement."

They offered take it or leave it, both you and your children will receive NOTHING! Yes, the attorney bold, underlined nothing repeatedly.

I requested the value information, and then filed a Notice of Production from Non Party, of course they filed a notice of objection.

What is my next step? I did get the paperwork to file a motion, and have summarized some information - but what will compel the Judge to approve the Notice of Production and also require an updated QDRO that will protect the 17 years I have invested into the Florida State Retirement System as the housewife of a firefighter?

I might add that I am currently on unemployment, attending school full-time under Federal Grants. Child support is no longer - boys are 18 & 21, and was not awarded alimony.

Any words of wisdom?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

If there is any way at all that you can find someone to help you get an attorney that is what I would recommend.

 

[mistoffolees]

Need help, as I am unable to hire an attorney - and legal aide will not assist in regards to QDROs

10/16/2006 Final Judgment of Divorce states:
“The marital portion of the Husband’s pension including the DROP plan, and/or other retirement plans with the state of Florida shall be equally divided via Qualified Domestic Relations Order, or other mandated order.”

The current QDRO approved by the court (04/25/2007) after the Final Judgment (10/16/2006) is in the Former Wife’s former name. Former Wife’s name had been restored on 10/16/2006, reflecting that the current QDRO had been approved without adequate review.

The QDRO was filed on ex-husband's FRS Pension Plan. He had an attorney draft an amended QDRO, as he wishes to transfer into the Investment Plan and offered a lump sum amount - but refused to provide the current value of the Pension Plan (22 year Firefighter, estimation approx $1M)

According to his attorney's letter, I have realized:
"The Marital Interest in the equal division of the Florida Division of Retirement Pension is not truly equal, being that it remains fully dependent on the Former Husband’s life. In the event he would pass, it would result in a sudden decline in the Former Wife’s financial status without any doing on her part, thus the filed QDRO is not a true equitable division of the pension as presented in the property settlement agreement."

They offered take it or leave it, both you and your children will receive NOTHING! Yes, the attorney bold, underlined nothing repeatedly.

I requested the value information, and then filed a Notice of Production from Non Party, of course they filed a notice of objection.

What is my next step? I did get the paperwork to file a motion, and have summarized some information - but what will compel the Judge to approve the Notice of Production and also require an updated QDRO that will protect the 17 years I have invested into the Florida State Retirement System as the housewife of a firefighter?

I might add that I am currently on unemployment, attending school full-time under Federal Grants. Child support is no longer - boys are 18 & 21, and was not awarded alimony.

Any words of wisdom?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

That attorney is full of baloney. What he's saying is that it's impossible to divide the account based on current values because some future event could change the value. That is absurd.

It is possible to determine the current value based on actuarial values. More importantly, it is possible to divide the payment amounts based on current values. If one person dies earlier, that's too bad.

Ld is correct. You need an attorney.

 

[Bali Hai]

Need help, as I am unable to hire an attorney - and legal aide will not assist in regards to QDROs

10/16/2006 Final Judgment of Divorce states:
“The marital portion of the Husband’s pension including the DROP plan, and/or other retirement plans with the state of Florida shall be equally divided via Qualified Domestic Relations Order, or other mandated order.”

The current QDRO approved by the court (04/25/2007) after the Final Judgment (10/16/2006) is in the Former Wife’s former name. Former Wife’s name had been restored on 10/16/2006, reflecting that the current QDRO had been approved without adequate review.

The QDRO was filed on ex-husband's FRS Pension Plan. He had an attorney draft an amended QDRO, as he wishes to transfer into the Investment Plan and offered a lump sum amount - but refused to provide the current value of the Pension Plan (22 year Firefighter, estimation approx $1M)

I seriously question the $1M dollar amount. It's actually absurd to think he has that much in a pension plan. Sounds like a death benefit.

According to his attorney's letter, I have realized:
"The Marital Interest in the equal division of the Florida Division of Retirement Pension is not truly equal, being that it remains fully dependent on the Former Husband’s life. In the event he would pass, it would result in a sudden decline in the Former Wife’s financial status without any doing on her part, thus the filed QDRO is not a true equitable division of the pension as presented in the property settlement agreement."

They offered take it or leave it, both you and your children will receive NOTHING! Yes, the attorney bold, underlined nothing repeatedly.

I requested the value information, and then filed a Notice of Production from Non Party, of course they filed a notice of objection.

What is my next step? I did get the paperwork to file a motion, and have summarized some information - but what will compel the Judge to approve the Notice of Production and also require an updated QDRO that will protect the 17 years I have invested into the Florida State Retirement System as the housewife of a firefighter?

I might add that I am currently on unemployment, attending school full-time under Federal Grants. Child support is no longer - boys are 18 & 21, and was not awarded alimony.

Any words of wisdom?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

You absolutely need a lawyer.

 

[mistoffolees]

I seriously question the $1M dollar amount. It's actually absurd to think he has that much in a pension plan. Sounds like a death benefit.

I suspect that someone is confusing 'value' with 'eventual life payments'.

Let's say that the pension will pay $4,000 per month beginning at age 65 until the person dies. If his life expectancy is 20 more years, then lifetime payments would be an estimated $4,000 x 12 months x 20 years = $960,000.

But in that scenario, the CURRENT value would be much lower than that (approximately half, given the above scenario and assuming that he's going to start withdrawing money right away).



BTW, there's no woman-bashing in that post or diatribes about how unfair the system is. What did you do with the real Bali?

 

[Bali Hai]

I suspect that someone is confusing 'value' with 'eventual life payments'.

Let's say that the pension will pay $4,000 per month beginning at age 65 until the person dies. If his life expectancy is 20 more years, then lifetime payments would be an estimated $4,000 x 12 months x 20 years = $960,000.

But in that scenario, the CURRENT value would be much lower than that (approximately half, given the above scenario and assuming that he's going to start withdrawing money right away).



BTW, there's no woman-bashing in that post or diatribes about how unfair the system is. What did you do with the real Bali?

I see you didn't have any problem figuring out my improper quote.

Firefighters and police officers due to the hazardous and physical demanding nature of their jobs normally can retire much earlier than most. They often receive half pay for the rest of their life with cost of living increments.

I don't believe the ex-wife is entitled to half of the half pay they receive. Did the ex-wife put her life on the line to earn any of that money? Of course not.

BTW, I don't "bash" women or anyone else. The system is absolutely unfair. Your baiting won't work.

 

[MoreThanABlonde]

Clarification

Yes - there is a current QDRO, and an amount based upon the calculation value at the time of the divorce. Approx. $1,300/month with no rights of survivorship. This has me worried, not just for myself - but also our two sons. I cannot vouch for his health - as has a history of ailments, and self abuse.

He would like to switch from the pension plan to the Investment Plan - in doing so, the state give the pension a value to be transferred. The state also does a calculation - 50% of (17 years of marriage divided by years of service) - for the marital right. We would then have separate, individual investment accounts in which we could each name beneficiaries - such as the adult children. The pension plan and the investment plan are very different animals. The investment plan is not paid out the same, as you can earn as much as you want through investments, and take it out as you want upon retiring from the department.

Every attorney I have called in this particular County will not deal with QDRO's - apparently they sub the written agreement to a company. From what I have heard attorneys are afraid of the liability. One attorney that I did consult with - suggested I hire an analysist, to determine his life expectancy. That is not what I need nor want. All I need is the information from the FRS, that the ex-spouse already has in his possession - and to get an order from the court for him to release it OR a subpoena to the state to provide it to me, so that I can make an informed decision as to whether his lump sum offer is reasonably close to the marital portion the state would calculate.

As far as asking someone for help in the financial aspect - that is not possible, at all.


For the one comment about I was not the one, putting my life on the line. One would assume you are either fire or police. The fact of the matter is I supported my spouse in the dream of being one, and stood by their side along the journey of their career. Then the marriage failed, but I also invested much during that 17 years.

 

[mistoffolees]

Yes - there is a current QDRO, and an amount based upon the calculation value at the time of the divorce. Approx. $1,300/month with no rights of survivorship. This has me worried, not just for myself - but also our two sons. I cannot vouch for his health - as has a history of ailments, and self abuse.

He would like to switch from the pension plan to the Investment Plan - in doing so, the state give the pension a value to be transferred. The state also does a calculation - 50% of (17 years of marriage divided by years of service) - for the marital right. We would then have separate, individual investment accounts in which we could each name beneficiaries - such as the adult children. The pension plan and the investment plan are very different animals. The investment plan is not paid out the same, as you can earn as much as you want through investments, and take it out as you want upon retiring from the department.

Every attorney I have called in this particular County will not deal with QDRO's - apparently they sub the written agreement to a company. From what I have heard attorneys are afraid of the liability. One attorney that I did consult with - suggested I hire an analysist, to determine his life expectancy. That is not what I need nor want. All I need is the information from the FRS, that the ex-spouse already has in his possession - and to get an order from the court for him to release it OR a subpoena to the state to provide it to me, so that I can make an informed decision as to whether his lump sum offer is reasonably close to the marital portion the state would calculate.

Then go to court and ask the court to make a decision.

You'd have a better chance of prevailing if you have an expert to calculate things based on the facts in this case, but if you want to simply throw everything open to the court, you can certainly do so.

 

[Bali Hai]

Yes - there is a current QDRO, and an amount based upon the calculation value at the time of the divorce. Approx. $1,300/month with no rights of survivorship. This has me worried, not just for myself - but also our two sons. I cannot vouch for his health - as has a history of ailments, and self abuse.

He would like to switch from the pension plan to the Investment Plan - in doing so, the state give the pension a value to be transferred. The state also does a calculation - 50% of (17 years of marriage divided by years of service) - for the marital right. We would then have separate, individual investment accounts in which we could each name beneficiaries - such as the adult children. The pension plan and the investment plan are very different animals. The investment plan is not paid out the same, as you can earn as much as you want through investments, and take it out as you want upon retiring from the department.

Every attorney I have called in this particular County will not deal with QDRO's - apparently they sub the written agreement to a company. From what I have heard attorneys are afraid of the liability. One attorney that I did consult with - suggested I hire an analysist, to determine his life expectancy. That is not what I need nor want. All I need is the information from the FRS, that the ex-spouse already has in his possession - and to get an order from the court for him to release it OR a subpoena to the state to provide it to me, so that I can make an informed decision as to whether his lump sum offer is reasonably close to the marital portion the state would calculate.

As far as asking someone for help in the financial aspect - that is not possible, at all.


For the one comment about I was not the one, putting my life on the line. One would assume you are either fire or police. The fact of the matter is I supported my spouse in the dream of being one, and stood by their side along the journey of their career. Then the marriage failed, but I also invested much during that 17 years.

Supporting with words and standing by the person's side while they put their life on the line and provide MONEY SUPPORT FOR YOU, is not apples to apples. Investments are tangible.

Your intangible investment, (actually worthless in anyplace but a marriage i.e., worked faithfully for a company for 40 years and now they legally lay me off and replace me with a younger employee!!), put a roof over your head for 17 years. That's a bargain.

 

[MoreThanABlonde]

Thank you

mistoffolees - thank you for your response. I have been given the contact information to the Legal Aide of the judge, who I have been told can direct me in the proper procedure and proper language in drafting a motion.

Bali - Obviously you have an issue & that I sympathize. The thing I detest most about a no-fault state, is it does not really matter upon the reasons for a divorce**************i.e. if a spouse deals with years of abuse and believes in the covenant and the sanctity of marriage. A no-fault policy endorses further victimization.... to stay in abusive and life threatening situations for tangible security in the retirement years. I am not a victim & and refuse to be a martyr - just want to protect my investment, and for the legal "right" as designated by the judicial system.

 

[exinflorida]

frs and qdro

Morethanablonde, I'm in much the same situation, divorce is finally but qdro has been denied 3 times now due to unacceptable language, I am very curious and interested what happened with your situation and did you get anything resolved? It is very frustrating at this point and only so much you can do on your own. Please reply if you don't mind, trying to resolve and we have very similar situations. Thanks.