Is this theft?

[mistoffolees]

With all due respect to the police - they are NOT attorneys.

The COURT will decide whether or not the RO would be appropriate...but really, given that your child is minor, you don't need to articulate a particular threat or anything - the simple fact that you forbid contact and he's going against that, should generally be enough.

You need to file in court - not with the police station. This is a civil action, not a criminal prosecution.

So far.

I agree - in general.

However, I would not drop the criminal part yet, though. If they were texting about masturbating, that may be illegal. I would contact the district attorney rather than the police.

But definitely get a restraining order.

 

[LdiJ]

There is one thing about this scenario that makes me uncomfortable.

Dad, I do not think that you are trying hard enough to get the telephone back to the boy. He is 18 and possibly views you (and possibly his parents do as well) as a potential threat. Therefore, you asking to meet with him to exchange the phone or asking for his address to mail him the phone can be perceived as dangerous to the boy.

I would honestly hand off the phone to your daughter's mother at the next exchange and let her return it to him. That gets the phone out of your possession and removes any potential problem regarding the phone.

Otherwise, I agree with everybody else.

 

[mistoffolees]

There is one thing about this scenario that makes me uncomfortable.

Dad, I do not think that you are trying hard enough to get the telephone back to the boy. He is 18 and possibly views you (and possibly his parents do as well) as a potential threat. Therefore, you asking to meet with him to exchange the phone or asking for his address to mail him the phone can be perceived as dangerous to the boy.

I would honestly hand off the phone to your daughter's mother at the next exchange and let her return it to him. That gets the phone out of your possession and removes any potential problem regarding the phone.

Otherwise, I agree with everybody else.

No way would I return the phone to him. I would turn it over to the District Attorney or save it for the civil restraining order case.

 

[Humusluvr]

There is one thing about this scenario that makes me uncomfortable.

Dad, I do not think that you are trying hard enough to get the telephone back to the boy. He is 18 and possibly views you (and possibly his parents do as well) as a potential threat. Therefore, you asking to meet with him to exchange the phone or asking for his address to mail him the phone can be perceived as dangerous to the boy.

I would honestly hand off the phone to your daughter's mother at the next exchange and let her return it to him. That gets the phone out of your possession and removes any potential problem regarding the phone.

Otherwise, I agree with everybody else.

I disagree. Dad has the phone, the only way to make sure he is absolved of responsibility for it is the get it to the boy directly. Mom could "lose it" and then Dad would be back on hook. I see all kinds of problems with a third party exchange.

Let the boy file for theft. Then, dad can explain all the ways he tried to give the phone back to the boy. And he can walk in and hand the boy the phone if they end up in front of the judge. Make the kid (well, he's an adult) man up and get the phone.

If kid wants the phone that bad, he is going to have to come get it.

 

[LdiJ]

I disagree. Dad has the phone, the only way to make sure he is absolved of responsibility for it is the get it to the boy directly. Mom could "lose it" and then Dad would be back on hook. I see all kinds of problems with a third party exchange.

Let the boy file for theft. Then, dad can explain all the ways he tried to give the phone back to the boy. And he can walk in and hand the boy the phone if they end up in front of the judge. Make the kid (well, he's an adult) man up and get the phone.

If kid wants the phone that bad, he is going to have to come get it.

I disagree with both you and Misto...

I think that I am looking at it from a different perspective than you are. I do not want dad to get into any trouble over this phone. I also don't want dad to get into any trouble (or end up with a restraining order against HIM as well) for being perceived as a threat to the boy. While the 18 year old is a legal adult, he is still very young and again, I want dad protected so that he can best protect his daughter.

The police told dad to return the phone. The boy asked dad to give it to the girl so that she could return it to him. Therefore the boy ok'd a third party exchange of the phone.

Quite frankly, I would have given the phone to the boy's mother when she asked for it the first time.

I want dad to be pure as the driven snow here, because I think he needs to be in order to best protect his daughter.

 

[Humusluvr]

I disagree with both you and Misto...

I think that I am looking at it from a different perspective than you are. I do not want dad to get into any trouble over this phone. I also don't want dad to get into any trouble (or end up with a restraining order against HIM as well) for being perceived as a threat to the boy. While the 18 year old is a legal adult, he is still very young and again, I want dad protected so that he can best protect his daughter.

The police told dad to return the phone. The boy asked dad to give it to the girl so that she could return it to him. Therefore the boy ok'd a third party exchange of the phone.

Quite frankly, I would have given the phone to the boy's mother when she asked for it the first time.

I want dad to be pure as the driven snow here, because I think he needs to be in order to best protect his daughter.

I can totally see your point of view. The police did tell dad to return the phone. I just think that if dad does not put the phone in the boy's hand, dad is setting himself up.

 

[cbg]

And when Dad gives the phone to the boy's mother and she does not return it to him, and the boy continues to insist that Dad never gave it to him, what's your plan?

 

[Humusluvr]

And when Dad gives the phone to the boy's mother and she does not return it to him, and the boy continues to insist that Dad never gave it to him, what's your plan?

Yep. I think they need to meet in the lobby of the police station to make the exchange. Same thing we tell Child Custody cases, when they are worried the other parent might pull something.

 

[Antigone*]

No way would I return the phone to him. I would turn it over to the District Attorney or save it for the civil restraining order case.

We are all forgetting the 18-year old punk GAVE the phone to a minor for the purposes of committing a crime. I'm with Misto on this one, especially if Dad is filing for the TRO today. If he gives back the phone he gives back all the evidence he has.

I'd have the DA give it back to him.

 

[CappyDick]

Thanks for all the input. I just want to reiterate that I offered to mail the phone registered mail. The boy only lives a few blocks away - but he's in an apartment complex and I don't know the mailing address. He refused to give it to me saying it would get lost.

I don't want to give it to my daughter or ex-wife for a number of reasons. I don't want my daughter to have the phone and if I give it to my ex-wife to give to the boy, I don't trust her to actually return it to the boy. It would be convenient for her for our daughter to have a cellphone. (The one I grounded my daughter from originally was provided by me).

I tried yesterday to file for a restraining order before going to work.

At any rate - after I went to the clerk's office to get the forms. The first thing they told me was "the only thing you can do is use this form but your child is going to have to agree to it and sign it". I told her my daughter is a minor - she said I could use the form to keep him for being around me. Then she suggested I talk to the prosecutors office.

So, I went to them - they told me I was in the wrong place. The prosecutor's office sent me to the police telling me I needed to file a report.

I went to the police- they didn't take a report because they said no offense had been committed.

The police did pull the report the boy made regarding "theft" and gave them to me so I at least now have the mailing address and I will mail the phone to him registered mail - which requires a signature.

I am thinking I don't need a police report, etc. to file this as a civil matter but couldn't get any clear information yesterday. Maybe I wasn't asking the right questions.

I would like to continue with pursuing an order to see if I can keep this kid away from my daughter. I am going to have to try to find the correct forms online and complete them and take them to the clerk's office, I guess. If anyone has any further insight - I'd greatly appreciate it.

 

[mistoffolees]

The prosecutor's office sent me to the police telling me I needed to file a report.

I went to the police- they didn't take a report because they said no offense had been committed.

The police are incorrect. They HAVE to take a report if you report what you believe to be a crime. In this case, it is a crime, so they have to take a report.

If it were me, I'd be back at the police office to fill out a report. If they refuse, ask to speak to a supervisor.

Take a copy of that report and the phone to the DA.

Meanwhile, go through with filing a restraining order.

 

[randolph76]

If you do mail the phone back you might want to download the text messages for your TRO case. Google instructions for the specific phone model in your case.

 

[Humusluvr]

If you do mail the phone back you might want to download the text messages for your TRO case. Google instructions for the specific phone model in your case.

If I were him, I wouldn't be giving the phone back until he gets the RO. He needs it as evidence that there were encounters between the adult and his child. The "downloads" wouldn't be taken as evidence, because how can he prove where it came from, and the accuracy of it?