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Jurisdiction of a Governor...

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Corvus

Junior Member
Hello, I have recently been ouraged by the actions of the police force in Quartzsite, AZ. I have been following the situation and have several questions. If you are unaware, the police chief of this city has basically taken control, overpowering the current mayor (who has refused to partake in the illegal activities of his police). If you need more information, I would be happy to fill you in.

However, my question is in regards to what powers the governor of AZ has. In previous communications with her, it has been stated that she has no jurisdiction over the governor or police of individual cities, specifically Quartzsite, in this case. My question is whether this is true or not and what jurisdiction she does have.

She refereed others to the Attorney General. Is this the only person that can do something in this sort of "mutiny" situation? What can we "as the people" do to stop injustice and corruption such as this?
 


garrula lingua

Senior Member
Is anyone left in Quartzsite in the summer ?
I always saw a huge group of RVs each winter, and barely anything in the summer...

The correct person to contact is the Attorney General of Arizona:

Arizona Attorney General Tom Horne
Office of the Attorney General
Phoenix Office
1275 West Washington Street
Phoenix, AZ 85007-2926
602.542.5025
**800.352.8431
Fax 602.542.4085
Tucson Office
400 West Congress
South Building, Suite 315
Tucson, AZ 85701-1367
520.628.6504
Fax 520.628.6530
File A Complaint
Questions regarding community services, consumer issues, civil rights or victim services can be directed to (see detailed listings below):
Email:
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Civil Rights [email protected] / Civil Rights Complaint Form
Identity Theft [email protected] / Identity Theft Brochure
Victim Services [email protected] / Victims' Rights Complaint Form
Phone:
Civil Rights
Phoenix
602.542.5263 / TDD 602.542.5002
**877.491.5742 / TDD **877.624.8090
Fax 602.542.8885

Tucson
520.628.6500 / TDD 520.628.6872
**877.491.5740 / TDD **877.881.7552
Fax 520.628.6765
 

Corvus

Junior Member
Honestly, im not sure. My understanding is that it is a snowbird retreat, but I cant believe it doesnt have citizens. And regardless of the population, it is still a part of the US. When the mayor and citizens claim the local police have declared martial law, there's a serious problem.

Please, research this. If a small town can get away with it, it's that much easier or any town. Which means it could be yours or mine. In my opinion, we need to make sure that it is know, this is not acceptable...
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
I do not see "martial law" here. I see what might be a possible violation of public meetings rules allowing for public comment on items indicated on the agenda, and maybe even a violation of these rules by the city council. Without knowing the full context, the nature of the meeting, the agenda, etc., it is difficult to say for certain who was wrong.

Personally, I would have waited for indication from the mayor or the Council that the person was disrupting the meeting and should be escorted from the room or arrested.

The woman involved here has options. She is free to defend herself in court, file suit against the council and/or the officers involved, etc.

Interesting that only activist sites seem to be carrying this piece, not any main line media outlets. So, either it is much ado about nothing, the woman was way in the wrong, or all the local media outlets are in collusion to shut the event up.
 

Corvus

Junior Member
I do not see "martial law" here. I see what might be a possible violation of public meetings rules allowing for public comment on items indicated on the agenda, and maybe even a violation of these rules by the city council. Without knowing the full context, the nature of the meeting, the agenda, etc., it is difficult to say for certain who was wrong.

Personally, I would have waited for indication from the mayor or the Council that the person was disrupting the meeting and should be escorted from the room or arrested.

The woman involved here has options. She is free to defend herself in court, file suit against the council and/or the officers involved, etc.

Interesting that only activist sites seem to be carrying this piece, not any main line media outlets. So, either it is much ado about nothing, the woman was way in the wrong, or all the local media outlets are in collusion to shut the event up.


It is not being called martial law because of what has happened in the videos, the police have supposedly (according to the citizens and the Mayor) taken control of the city. While the police chief denies it completely and says the clandestine meeting was simply to deal with death threats recently received (probably because of the arrest of the woman at the council meeting).

The mayor claims that the police chief and select council members have declared a state of emergency and initiated martial law. While this may not be possible (as it must be a Governor or POTUS, to my understanding), it appears they are attempting to do it anyways. It is obvious, from the videos, the police do not obey their superior and have a complete disregard for constitutional values, etc.
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
It is not being called martial law because of what has happened, the police have supposedly (according to the citizens and the Mayor) taken control of the city. While the police chief denies it completely and says the clandestine meeting was simply to deal with death threats recently received (probably because of the arrest of the woman at the council meeting).

The mayor claims that the police chief and select council members have declared a state of emergency and initiated martial law. While this may not be possible (as it must be a Governor or POTUS, to my understanding), it appears they are attempting to do it anyways. It is obvious, from the videos, the police do not obey their superior and have a complete disregard for constitutional values, etc.
You are right, they cannot institute "martial law." And I doubt that is what is even close to occurring there. The tales may be long on hyperbole and short on facts.

And, as a note, the Mayor is their superior. My Mayor cannot tell me what to do, nor can he tell my Chief what to do with regards to legal issues. He can make budgetary decisions, influence policy matters, even try to influence enforcement priorities, but when the rubber meets the road the Mayor cannot order the police to do something - or not to do something that they might believe is a lawful response to an act that they have witnessed.

I cannot speak to the situation in that town because I know only the vitriol I found on some fringe blogs. I have not found a source of unbiased reporting on the issue, so whether it is another case of a lot of hoopla over a nothing incident, or an example of local government out of control, I can't say.

EDIT: Okay, at least a couple of the links you provided seem to be more objective positions. Though it seems that the whole thing may still be blown out of proportion according to what the city said about the meeting. And, imagine that, a city running afoul of open meeting laws?! That happens a lot in small towns without professional guidance on these matters.

If things are bad enough, people can talk to the Attorney General. If things cross into Civil Rights violations then maybe the FBI will look into it. Though, I suspect this is something that the A.G. can deal with if there is anything criminal to pursue.
 
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Corvus

Junior Member
You are right, they cannot institute "martial law." And I doubt that is what is even close to occurring there. The tales may be long on hyperbole and short on facts.

And, as a note, the Mayor is their superior. My Mayor cannot tell me what to do, nor can he tell my Chief what to do with regards to legal issues. He can make budgetary decisions, influence policy matters, even try to influence enforcement priorities, but when the rubber meets the road the Mayor cannot order the police to do something - or not to do something that they might believe is a lawful response to an act that they have witnessed.

I cannot speak to the situation in that town because I know only the vitriol I found on some fringe blogs. I have not found a source of unbiased reporting on the issue, so whether it is another case of a lot of hoopla over a nothing incident, or an example of local government out of control, I can't say.

EDIT: Okay, at least a couple of the links you provided seem to be more objective positions. Though it seems that the whole thing may still be blown out of proportion according to what the city said about the meeting. And, imagine that, a city running afoul of open meeting laws?! That happens a lot in small towns without professional guidance on these matters.

If things are bad enough, people can talk to the Attorney General. If things cross into Civil Rights violations then maybe the FBI will look into it. Though, I suspect this is something that the A.G. can deal with if there is anything criminal to pursue.
Thank you so much for your responses. I was not aware that the police could over rule situations such as this. I was under the impression that the mayor was over anyone based direcly to said city.

So, is the AG the only position above (per state) the chief of police? Is this their only governing factor? If this is the case, especially in situations such as this, I do not feel this is enough...
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Thank you so much for your responses. I was not aware that the police could over rule situations such as this. I was under the impression that the mayor was over anyone based direcly to said city.
If that were the case, then the Mayor and the Council would be above the law. That is not to say that the Mayor cannot influence enforcement decisions, just that legally, the Mayor is not specifically in command of the police. The politics, however, can be complex.

So, is the AG the only position above (per state) the chief of police?
The AG is essentially the chief law enforcement executive in the state. The AG has the authority to review complaints and make decisions on prosecution or even civil action concerning the city or the police department. But, even the AG is not the boss of the police and cannot directly tell the police what to do or not to do. If the police fail to heed recommendations, the AG does have the power to take legal action, however.

Is this their only governing factor? If this is the case, especially in situations such as this, I do not feel this is enough...
It's the way it is. The Governor would have some influence, of course, as enforcement of laws is largely a political decision and a governor is a political animal that tends to wield a great deal of influence - primarily through the power of the purse. But, neither the Governor nor the AG have the power to just declare a police department corrupt, disband it, rule that an act is against the law, etc. Even they must follow the law and due process.
 

Corvus

Junior Member
If that were the case, then the Mayor and the Council would be above the law. That is not to say that the Mayor cannot influence enforcement decisions, just that legally, the Mayor is not specifically in command of the police. The politics, however, can be complex.
Ok, so... the mayor can give suggestions as to what he/she deems acceptable/advisable, but nothing more. While the police can determine their own priorities and choose to follow/disobey each "suggestion"?

The AG is essentially the chief law enforcement executive in the state. The AG has the authority to review complaints and make decisions on prosecution or even civil action concerning the city or the police department. But, even the AG is not the boss of the police and cannot directly tell the police what to do or not to do. If the police fail to heed recommendations, the AG does have the power to take legal action, however.
So, at this point, assuming that the current police force has taken control of the city - if they AG determines their actions as unjust/unconstitutional, he/she can take the police department to court and this would be the only way to fight a "rogue" police force?

It's the way it is. The Governor would have some influence, of course, as enforcement of laws is largely a political decision and a governor is a political animal that tends to wield a great deal of influence - primarily through the power of the purse. But, neither the Governor nor the AG have the power to just declare a police department corrupt, disband it, rule that an act is against the law, etc. Even they must follow the law and due process.
Is it not pathetic that we must assume all politics are dictated by "the power of the purse"?! You are not wrong in saying it, but we should not be a plutocracy... That isn't what the US is (or should be) about...

Does this mean the police department stands on its own, above all forms of government which are state-based? If the previous would make the mayor/AG above the law, where does that put the police? They obviously think more of themselves than "at the law"... Aside from making unanswered calls/messages to an AG, what alternatives are there for the average citizen?

and lastly, why did I go to school for art instead of law?! :)
 

Corvus

Junior Member
EDIT: Okay, at least a couple of the links you provided seem to be more objective positions. Though it seems that the whole thing may still be blown out of proportion according to what the city said about the meeting. And, imagine that, a city running afoul of open meeting laws?! That happens a lot in small towns without professional guidance on these matters.

If things are bad enough, people can talk to the Attorney General. If things cross into Civil Rights violations then maybe the FBI will look into it. Though, I suspect this is something that the A.G. can deal with if there is anything criminal to pursue.
"according to what the city said" - in legal terms, even if the cities opinion is coming from officials who have placed themselves (illegally) as head of office, are these the words that will be relied upon? If a mayor and their citizens have spoken in opposition to injustices or illegal activities, does it matter?

I understand these can be circumstantial answers and that the law is not always clear and can often be vague and misinterpreted, but in the broad, generalized sense, is the answer I suppose I'm searching for...
 
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Corvus

Junior Member
Also, I have some questions about mutiny...

§ 894. Art. 94. Mutiny or sedition
(a) Any person subject to this chapter who—
(1) with intent to usurp or override lawful military authority, refuses, in concert with any other person, to obey orders or otherwise do his duty or creates any violence or disturbance is guilty of mutiny;
(2) with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of lawful civil authority, creates, in concert with any other person, revolt, violence, or other disturbance against that authority is guilty of sedition;
(3) fails to do his utmost to prevent and suppress a mutiny or sedition being committed in his presence, or fails to take all reasonable means to inform his superior commissioned officer or commanding officer of a mutiny or sedition which he knows or has reason to believe is taking place, is guilty of a failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition.
(b) A person who is found guilty of attempted mutiny, mutiny, sedition, or failure to suppress or report a mutiny or sedition shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.


I realize the situation is not to this point, but I would like to understand the law/terminology better... If we assume that the chief of police has ousted the current mayor, by force, coercion or any other means, do he and his associates fail to fall under this jurisdiction because they are not military as stated in paragraph 1?

In paragraph 2, sedition is considered any revolt or disturbance against civil authority; I assume the mayor would be civil authority, but so are the police... from previous statements, can I assume that since the police are above the mayor and governor, the only way for a situation to be considered mutiny would if the governor/mayor overthrew the police force?

If any of this would be categorized as 'mutiny', would all obeying associates (council and police) be guilty of mutiny/sedition?
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Ok, so... the mayor can give suggestions as to what he/she deems acceptable/advisable, but nothing more. While the police can determine their own priorities and choose to follow/disobey each "suggestion"?
The police are bound by the law. While issues of political priority might be directed by the mayor, issues of law may not be.

If I am arresting a drunk for fighting, and the mayor says to let him go, I am not legally bound to follow that direction. However, if my Chief says to let him go, I could be disciplined for failing to follow the orders of my superior. The Mayor is not in that official hierarchy.

So, at this point, assuming that the current police force has taken control of the city - if they AG determines their actions as unjust/unconstitutional, he/she can take the police department to court and this would be the only way to fight a "rogue" police force?
Yes, the AG would have to act through the courts. If a law has been broken and there is probable cause to determine that a felony has been committed, the AG might direct the state police to make an arrest, but they would still have to go to court. The AG cannot simply order the state police in to take over the town.

And I doubt we have a police force in a small town taking "control" of the city. Perhaps encouraging some draconian measures - perhaps not entirely legal - but I doubt they have roadblocks at intersections and are conducting warrantless searches for fifth columnists.

Is it not pathetic that we must assume all politics are dictated by "the power of the purse"?! You are not wrong in saying it, but we should not be a plutocracy... That isn't what the US is (or should be) about...
We are a representative republic. But, power is often exercised by the power of the purse. How do you think the feds managed to get the states to tow the line with speed limits, BAC levels, etc.? They tie funding to their desires. The same can hold true with state and local governments.

In a county if the Board of Supervisors dislikes the actions of an elected Sheriff, they cannot fire him or her, but they can cut off funds to programs or to the department as a whole in order to exert some measure of control. Some might call all of this "checks and balances."

Does this mean the police department stands on its own, above all forms of government which are state-based? If the previous would make the mayor/AG above the law, where does that put the police? They obviously think more of themselves than "at the law"... Aside from making unanswered calls/messages to an AG, what alternatives are there for the average citizen?
The law involves the courts. The AG is part of that process, too. The police are expected to uphold the law and adhere to it. When they do not, they face the possibility of civil and/or criminal charges in addition to termination of employment.

If an officer breaks the law he has his day in court just as everyone else.

The "average citizen" can pursue the legal process like anyone else. The problem here is that this whole thing may be - as I mentioned - long on hyperbole and short on facts.

and lastly, why did I go to school for art instead of law?! :)
Because art was less of a headache? :D

"according to what the city said" - in legal terms, even if the cities opinion is coming from officials who have placed themselves (illegally) as head of office, are these the words that will be relied upon? If a mayor and their citizens have spoken in opposition to injustices or illegal activities, does it matter?
Statements from city staffers are given the same weight and credibility as those who are saying otherwise. Or, are people critiquing the government the only ones who are capable of telling the truth or knowing the law?

This whole thing could have been averted had the council just let that woman speak her three minutes (or whatever is required by state law and local ordinance) and then ask her to step down. If she refused, THEN the Mayor or whomever could have asked the police to remove her and indicate they wished to have her placed under arrest if she refused.

I have had to do this for school board and city council meetings. It's ugly. But, it is much nicer when the issue is clear and the Mayor is willing to sign the private person's arrest.

As for the mutiny section ... uh, yeah, we haven't gotten there. And there is still nothing that says the police chief has "ousted" the mayor by force. Small town politicos - and fringe bloggers - tend to engage in rather exaggerated and inflammatory language at times. When emotions run hotter than objective reporting, then it is difficult to discern the truth of the matter.
 

Corvus

Junior Member
Thank you for the answers. I was never implying that there may be or that I thought there was a problem of that scale. The questions were hypothetical, as the current situation just got me wondering.
 

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