Husband does not want to sign.

[stealth2]

Stealth2 - I really can't tell if you are truly being protective of Bali, or if you are being sarcastic, but I am going to guess you are being protective, and I am reacting to that.

I am never sarcastic.

At the end of the day, it is your choice whether to file now or wait until October. This is something you should really be discussing with your attorney.

 

[Bali Hai]

By your definition of treating people badly, I did not treat him badly. He made an accusation that *deserve* to be treated that way - after all "No sympathy for you. What goes around, comes around." I threw the same barb back at him. He was defended, I was accused.

Note: I did not ask for sympathy - but probably a well written narrative would have earned it.

I have not asked for sympathy at all. I asked your (the collective of senior members who have years of experience in this manner) experience on how judges rule in these situations.

Its painfully (and financially) obvious to me that I should have integrated more protections for myself into this marriage than I did. Mind you, I did seek legal counsel and spoke to my accountant about how to protect myself and my assets before I got married. Still, I loved my husband dearly, and my moral compass combined with his illness prevented from minimizing the damages by reacting earlier.

Finally, when I realized he was using his illness as a crutch and an excuse for his poor decisions, I gave him an ultimatum. He could choose to change X,Y,Z, and work on our marriage, or he can continue to do those thing on his own. He decided he didn't want to change those things, and as everyone else saw- he can't make it on his own, and is trying to get me to subsidize his expenses.

I did not throw somebody unable to support himself into the streets - he has the means to support himself - but is making short sighted, terrible decisions. He wont' go for CS on his youngest or collect the mom's share of child care expenses. He won't modify his CS on his other children even though he is due a downward modification due to his (dramatic) loss of income. He wont' get rid of his business that is losing money. He he is working close to 20 hours a week on this business and instead of drawing an income he is subsidizing the business. He won't consider a full time job with benefits because it means he wont' be able spend 20 hours a week on this business. He now owes the federal and state government taxes - as he autonomously decided in 2010 to not withhold taxes, expecting me to be willing to file jointly and make up his short fall. His other job is with a small business that is failing and every year for the past 3 his hours and income have been cut. The owner told him about a year ago that it is only a matter of time until he has to close the doors, but my husband stubbornly refuses to read the writing on the wall and look for a new job now. And so on.

All of this said I did what I had to do to protect my children and myself. Funny how when people come to this board and fail to protect their families from financial ruin by a new spouse they are quickly told that are in that situation by choice. But when I did read your forum for years, and followed the advice to protect my family, I am still treated with disrespect.

Oh, surely you or somebody else will come back and tell me how if I don't like it, I can leave now. The legal advice given here seems to be good in general - too bad it has to be filtered out of much trash.

Bottom line: obey the orders of the court.

 

[AlmostThere]

Bottom line: obey the orders of the court.

Hey Bali - that is good advice! And I plan to when we have court orders. Right now there are not court orders - just a STBX who wants me to help support him so he can live in a fantasy world.

The advice given to me to talk to my lawyers by others is good advice no doubt. But expensive advice. As far as I know, my ex has yet to respond to my lawyer's letter to his lawyer stating that I am unwilling to wait and file in October, and to please advise if he is unwilling to sign at this time so it can be put on the court calendar at early as possible.

I will likely write to my lawyer again early next week asking him to set a deadline, and ask questions about the likely outcome. My lawyer is the best person to ask for a lot of things - still, like many I try to do as much research on my own as possible, for the double benefit of learning about the legal system as well as saving money wherever possible.

 

[Bali Hai]

Hey Bali - that is good advice! And I plan to when we have court orders. Right now there are not court orders - just a STBX who wants me to help support him so he can live in a fantasy world.

That's a divorce fact (wonder where it came from?) and nothing you can do about it.

The advice given to me to talk to my lawyers by others is good advice no doubt. But expensive advice. As far as I know, my ex has yet to respond to my lawyer's letter to his lawyer stating that I am unwilling to wait and file in October, and to please advise if he is unwilling to sign at this time so it can be put on the court calendar at early as possible.

I will likely write to my lawyer again early next week asking him to set a deadline, and ask questions about the likely outcome. My lawyer is the best person to ask for a lot of things - still, like many I try to do as much research on my own as possible, for the double benefit of learning about the legal system as well as saving money wherever possible.

It may be less costly to give him what he wants than to spend alot on an attorney. Do the math.

 

[stealth2]

It may be less costly to give him what he wants than to spend alot on an attorney. Do the math.

Good point. Also, at that point, the divorce will likely end up contested and could drag out through the end of the year ANYWAY. And OP still won't be able to remove him from her insurance until the divorce is final.

 

[AlmostThere]

Good point. Also, at that point, the divorce will likely end up contested and could drag out through the end of the year ANYWAY. And OP still won't be able to remove him from her insurance until the divorce is final.

Yes, I will do the math. I am a Mathematician. My hope is his attorney/friend who is semi-retired will not be willing to go the court route for free. My STBX told me before our marriage completely unraveled, that his attorney and his accountant advised him to make many of the changes I was pushing for (CS, getting rid of a business that was losing money, etc) and he refused. At some point his attorney is going to get tired of taking care of STBX for free; particularly when he refuses to take his free advice. (Just like you all do here!)

I could easily see STBX sign the divorce agreement the morning of court to avoid walking into a court room without a leg to stand on. The real question becomes how far out is the court calendar? What I gather from friends who are also going though divorce - 2-4 weeks. If we can get a court date in August, even if I pay $2000 in legal fees and 2 months of insurance, I will save almost $2000.

I have also started looking at Low Premium High Deductible insurance plans for next year should for some odd reason, this still not be resolved by then. While I can afford the high deductible ($2500) - he cannot unless he makes drastic changes, and would quickly determine that he is better off on a Healthy NY Plan which would require that he sign the divorce.

 

[xylene]

Which would require that he sign the divorce.

I can tell that you did not read the detailed information provided by the link to the NY court system on divorce.

You clearly do not have an uncontested divorce. Which means his signature is irrelevant.

 

[AlmostThere]

I can tell that you did not read the detailed information provided by the link to the NY court system on divorce.

You clearly do not have an uncontested divorce. Which means his signature is irrelevant.

I did read it.. but the way I can see it is he can go one of two ways:
1) Sign the non-contested divorced agreement and not go to court
2) Not sign and find that a judge says there is nothing to fight over .. and she does not need to provide insurance for you for months go come.

This will be his 3rd divorce - and despite a prolonged battle outside the courtroom on his first one - he signed to avoid going to court. The second divorce was quick and easy as she had moved on, and he did not want to go to court even though a judge would likely have ordered child support awarded to him. As the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, I doubt he wants to go to court for this one either.

Maybe I am wrong, and he will surprise me, and it will go to court. And I am trying to prepare for the possibility by asking questions.

 

[AlmostThere]

UPDATE and new question

Once my attorney filed an RJI, on July 25th, and my STBX's attorney receive notification of Justice assignment on Friday July 29th my STBX signed on August 1st. My Attorney received the signed documents, reviewed them to make sure there were no unexpected changes and informed me Weds August 3rd. I signed August 4th.

Now I find out, my STBX has to sign one more form for this to be final, and he has 60 more days to sign it. I was a little flabbergasted about this - I thought once we both sign, its sent off for justice to stamp it, and we were done.

Again, its one more thing that he can use to slow the process down- but I've been told if he does not sign it, the justice assigned to our case will be very unhappy with him, and STBX's attorney knows this and will put a lot of pressure on STBX to sign.

Why has this new form: 255i http://www.nycourts.gov/divorce/forms_instructions/DRL255Addendum.pdf been added to the mix? Why couldn't the information just be added to the divorce paperwork, or reworded in a manner that this new form can be signed at the same time as the other paperwork? It seems to give more power to a person not wanting a divorce to delay and make their STBX miserable.

 

[Bali Hai]

Once my attorney filed an RJI, on July 25th, and my STBX's attorney receive notification of Justice assignment on Friday July 29th my STBX signed on August 1st. My Attorney received the signed documents, reviewed them to make sure there were no unexpected changes and informed me Weds August 3rd. I signed August 4th.

Now I find out, my STBX has to sign one more form for this to be final, and he has 60 more days to sign it. I was a little flabbergasted about this - I thought once we both sign, its sent off for justice to stamp it, and we were done.

Again, its one more thing that he can use to slow the process down- but I've been told if he does not sign it, the justice assigned to our case will be very unhappy with him,

Well that's just too bad, your stbx doesn't have to sign anything!

and STBX's attorney knows this and will put a lot of pressure on STBX to sign.

Typical NY divorce, the woman has both attorneys and the judge working for them!

Why has this new form: 255i http://www.nycourts.gov/divorce/forms_instructions/DRL255Addendum.pdf been added to the mix? Why couldn't the information just be added to the divorce paperwork, or reworded in a manner that this new form can be signed at the same time as the other paperwork? It seems to give more power to a person not wanting a divorce to delay and make their STBX miserable.

Your stbx and his attorney are apparently ignorant of the current NYS matrimonial laws, or, just plain stupid. It wouldn't affect the outcome of the case at all if they contest the divorce.

This delay would afford your stbx insurance coverage on him and the mandatory temporary alimony during the divorce proceedings.

Judges must award the temporary alimony via formula and they must provide a detailed explanation if they choose not to.

 

[AlmostThere]

Your stbx and his attorney are apparently ignorant of the current NYS matrimonial laws, or, just plain stupid. It wouldn't affect the outcome of the case at all if they contest the divorce.

This delay would afford your stbx insurance coverage on him and the mandatory temporary alimony during the divorce proceedings.

Judges must award the temporary alimony via formula and they must provide a detailed explanation if they choose not to.

It does delay my canceling insurance, but there is not alimony in this case. Sorry to disappoint.

You are 100% correct that he did not have to sign - it could have been a contested divorce. But as I said earlier, STBX is receiving his representation for free or close to it, and his attorney does not want this to go to court.

We have not been inside a court room. We have not seen the justice assigned to our case. There is no reason for that to happen - and STBX and his attorney know that. With no co-mingled monies, no joint debts or assets, etc, no children, etc, there is literally NOTHING to fight over.

I've been repeatedly told that if this goes to court, particularly with the justice who was assigned to us, that it would be ugly for STBX and his attorney.

There is an end in sight.. Whew! I now know it was a good choice to not agree to wait until October to file as he requested. That wold have delayed starting the clock on his signing this new form by 3 months.

My question for those who are knowledgeable about NYS divorce law: Why was this form added to the requirements in a way that is allowed to cause delay?

 

[mistoffolees]

Why has this new form: 255i http://www.nycourts.gov/divorce/forms_instructions/DRL255Addendum.pdf been added to the mix? Why couldn't the information just be added to the divorce paperwork, or reworded in a manner that this new form can be signed at the same time as the other paperwork? It seems to give more power to a person not wanting a divorce to delay and make their STBX miserable.

Presumably because the document was not included with the rest of the paperwork. Both of the attorneys should have caught it.

However, your interpretation is very one sided. While you see it as one person delaying and making stbx miserable, the intent is actually to ensure a fair divorce that both parties are fully apprised of.

 

[AlmostThere]

Presumably because the document was not included with the rest of the paperwork. Both of the attorneys should have caught it.

However, your interpretation is very one sided. While you see it as one person delaying and making stbx miserable, the intent is actually to ensure a fair divorce that both parties are fully apprised of.

In many cases you may be right - that delay often is to ensure a fair divorce. That is not THIS case - where STBX told my attorney via his, that he wanted to delay purely for the purpose of not having to supply his own medical insurance. He has not disagreed with the terms of the divorce, offered any other suggestions, etc. It could well be that STBX and his attorney have sought another way to delay STBX's inevitable need to acquire his own medical insurance, by not including the 255i form when they sent back the signed divorce agreement. That actually makes a lot more sense.

Thank you for the insight that it SHOULD have been included.

 

[Bali Hai]

It does delay my canceling insurance, but there is not alimony in this case. Sorry to disappoint.

You are 100% correct that he did not have to sign - it could have been a contested divorce. But as I said earlier, STBX is receiving his representation for free or close to it, and his attorney does not want this to go to court.

We have not been inside a court room. We have not seen the justice assigned to our case. There is no reason for that to happen - and STBX and his attorney know that. With no co-mingled monies, no joint debts or assets, etc, no children, etc, there is literally NOTHING to fight over.

I've been repeatedly told that if this goes to court, particularly with the justice who was assigned to us, that it would be ugly for STBX and his attorney.

There is an end in sight.. Whew! I now know it was a good choice to not agree to wait until October to file as he requested. That wold have delayed starting the clock on his signing this new form by 3 months.

My question for those who are knowledgeable about NYS divorce law: Why was this form added to the requirements in a way that is allowed to cause delay?

Based on your previous posts, it would be almost a certainty you would be ordered to pay temporary alimony during the divorce proceedings.

Furthermore, you would be ordered to pay a portion of his attorney fees.

Under the new NYS DRL's, these items are required and any deviation from that requires the court to detail in writing.

 

[Bali Hai]

In many cases you may be right - that delay often is to ensure a fair divorce. That is not THIS case - where STBX told my attorney via his, that he wanted to delay purely for the purpose of not having to supply his own medical insurance. He has not disagreed with the terms of the divorce, offered any other suggestions, etc. It could well be that STBX and his attorney have sought another way to delay STBX's inevitable need to acquire his own medical insurance, by not including the 255i form when they sent back the signed divorce agreement. That actually makes a lot more sense.

Thank you for the insight that it SHOULD have been included.

Now you're on a witch-hunt.

Legal delays and contested divorces are perfectly legal. When you're playing by the rules and playing to win, there is no foul.