Going Crazy!

[LCC]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA/NY

I have been married for 21 yrs. I raised her daughter, now 26, for the entire time. Sending her to private schools and everything. At about 15 yrs in we decided to move to PA because of the schooling for our two children, now 14 & 16. I have maintained residency in NY for the entire time, due to my employment. I have a home in NY, inherited from my parents prior too the marriage, where I live. I traveled to PA on my days off to spend time with the family. We traveled every year and did family things regularly. I always paid for everything including the house in PA. We decided to divorce about a yr ago due to differences that have developed over the years. We agreed to get an uncontested divorce, out of court. I have offered to continue to pay the mortgage and to take care of the kids for 7 yrs, until they are finished college, at which time we will sell the house and split the proceeds. I have offered her a nice $1500/mo settlement for life upon my retirement. I have also offered to help her with her health ins cost.
The problem is that even with all Im willing to do, she will not come to the table to discuss this. She refuses to tell me if the terms Im offering are acceptable or not. She just keeps saying, "I dont know". Ive been on hold for yrs now because I cant get a second job, go back to school, or buy another home because I'm afraid that if things go bad she will get half of that.
I want this thing to be over so that I can get on with my life. Any advice?

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

File in court. She will show up, negotiate, or get what she is given. You do not need to put all the additional support of children into the agreement, you can just do it.

 

[LdiJ]

File in court. She will show up, negotiate, or get what she is given. You do not need to put all the additional support of children into the agreement, you can just do it.

I am not sure that I understand what you are talking about in terms of the "additional support of children"? Of course child support has to be included in any divorce case. It cannot just be something that he "does".

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA/NY

I have been married for 21 yrs. I raised her daughter, now 26, for the entire time. Sending her to private schools and everything. At about 15 yrs in we decided to move to PA because of the schooling for our two children, now 14 & 16. I have maintained residency in NY for the entire time, due to my employment. I have a home in NY, inherited from my parents prior too the marriage, where I live. I traveled to PA on my days off to spend time with the family. We traveled every year and did family things regularly. I always paid for everything including the house in PA. We decided to divorce about a yr ago due to differences that have developed over the years. We agreed to get an uncontested divorce, out of court. I have offered to continue to pay the mortgage and to take care of the kids for 7 yrs, until they are finished college, at which time we will sell the house and split the proceeds. I have offered her a nice $1500/mo settlement for life upon my retirement. I have also offered to help her with her health ins cost.
The problem is that even with all Im willing to do, she will not come to the table to discuss this. She refuses to tell me if the terms Im offering are acceptable or not. She just keeps saying, "I dont know". Ive been on hold for yrs now because I cant get a second job, go back to school, or buy another home because I'm afraid that if things go bad she will get half of that.
I want this thing to be over so that I can get on with my life. Any advice?

No one can be awarded half of your education therefore there is no reason why you cannot go to school if that is what you want to do. You already have a house to live in therefore I don't understand what the big deal is about buying another home. Same with the second job...although obviously it would be nearly impossible to both go to school AND work a second job.

If you want a divorce you can get a divorce. It may end up being a contested divorce, but you can get a divorce.

 

[mistoffolees]

I am not sure that I understand what you are talking about in terms of the "additional support of children"? Of course child support has to be included in any divorce case. It cannot just be something that he "does".

I think what OH was suggesting is that there's no need to put the college age support into the agreement, however, that is state dependent.

If OP files in PA (which seems like the appropriate place since the kids live there), then support isn't required to go past age 18, so OP could put age 18 in the proposed settlement. If the court accepts that, OP could simply continue to pay without an order until the kids graduate from college if s/he wishes, but there would be no obligation. Of course, the court COULD order CS to continue past age 18 if the kids are in college, but there's nothing stopping OP from voluntarily continuing even if it's not ordered.

Before doing anything, I would encourage OP to see an attorney. There are a number of flaws in his proposal:

1. He needs to see how much might be ordered for alimony. That requires knowing the judge who will handle the case and how they normally act. It also requires knowing a lot of details that haven't been provided here. Knowing what the judge is likely to order is a good start. It's impossible to say if $1500 a month is a 'nice' amount or horrendously low (or extremely high) without details. Given that there is sufficient income to support multiple homes, I'm guessing that initial spousal support might well be considerably higher than $1500.

2. As stated above, choosing the state to file in is important. First, the support issues are different between the two states (as would be the alimony). Second, it is not likely that NY would have jurisdiction over the kids, so they might have to file in PA.

3. Resist lifetime support. At some time, you'll be living on a limited, fixed income. A more realistic approach to spousal support (if there is any at all) is for SS to be paid while the payor is working and then when the payor retires, each party should rely on their own retirement funds.

4. I don't see anything in the proposal about splitting assets (including retirement funds). All assets need to be split. I hope you weren't planning on keeping all of the retirement funds. In addition, a low income or non-working spouse can draw social security benefits based on the other spouse's income after (IIRC) 10 years.

5. The "we'll continue to keep the house and split the money at the end" leads to problems. Even if there are no conflicts, there is likely to be resentment building over paying all the costs and the other spouse keeping half. There are two homes. It's far better to each take the home you're living in and then transfer assets to equalize the equity. Then higher income person pays spousal support (if appropriate) and the recipient uses that to pay their own mortgage.

6. There are major tax consequences that need to be considered. Regardless of whether you keep the homes or transfer it and pay alimony, make sure that the decree is worded properly so that you can deduct the alimony from your taxes.

Overall, I would suggest that each side have an attorney and that they hire a mediator to work out the details and then submit an uncontested divorce based on what they agree to.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

I am not sure that I understand what you are talking about in terms of the "additional support of children"? Of course child support has to be included in any divorce case. It cannot just be something that he "does".

I was referring to the "taking care of the kids until after they finish college". His STBX might be dragging him to court for cars, computers and anything else she feels could be remotely needed under a general "taking care of" through college.

 

[LdiJ]

I think what OH was suggesting is that there's no need to put the college age support into the agreement, however, that is state dependent.

If OP files in PA (which seems like the appropriate place since the kids live there), then support isn't required to go past age 18, so OP could put age 18 in the proposed settlement. If the court accepts that, OP could simply continue to pay without an order until the kids graduate from college if s/he wishes, but there would be no obligation. Of course, the court COULD order CS to continue past age 18 if the kids are in college, but there's nothing stopping OP from voluntarily continuing even if it's not ordered.

Before doing anything, I would encourage OP to see an attorney. There are a number of flaws in his proposal:

1. He needs to see how much might be ordered for alimony. That requires knowing the judge who will handle the case and how they normally act. It also requires knowing a lot of details that haven't been provided here. Knowing what the judge is likely to order is a good start. It's impossible to say if $1500 a month is a 'nice' amount or horrendously low (or extremely high) without details. Given that there is sufficient income to support multiple homes, I'm guessing that initial spousal support might well be considerably higher than $1500.

2. As stated above, choosing the state to file in is important. First, the support issues are different between the two states (as would be the alimony). Second, it is not likely that NY would have jurisdiction over the kids, so they might have to file in PA.

3. Resist lifetime support. At some time, you'll be living on a limited, fixed income. A more realistic approach to spousal support (if there is any at all) is for SS to be paid while the payor is working and then when the payor retires, each party should rely on their own retirement funds.

4. I don't see anything in the proposal about splitting assets (including retirement funds). All assets need to be split. I hope you weren't planning on keeping all of the retirement funds. In addition, a low income or non-working spouse can draw social security benefits based on the other spouse's income after (IIRC) 10 years.

5. The "we'll continue to keep the house and split the money at the end" leads to problems. Even if there are no conflicts, there is likely to be resentment building over paying all the costs and the other spouse keeping half. There are two homes. It's far better to each take the home you're living in and then transfer assets to equalize the equity. Then higher income person pays spousal support (if appropriate) and the recipient uses that to pay their own mortgage.

6. There are major tax consequences that need to be considered. Regardless of whether you keep the homes or transfer it and pay alimony, make sure that the decree is worded properly so that you can deduct the alimony from your taxes.

Overall, I would suggest that each side have an attorney and that they hire a mediator to work out the details and then submit an uncontested divorce based on what they agree to.

The bolded is generally good advice but in this case it is not. The home he is living in, in NY, he inherited so that is his separate property. However they still have options to equalize equity.

 

[mistoffolees]

The bolded is generally good advice but in this case it is not. The home he is living in, in NY, he inherited so that is his separate property. However they still have options to equalize equity.

He's had it for 21 years. If he has used marital funds for maintenance, taxes, etc, then the appreciation is marital. And after 21 years, much of the value would be appreciation.

 

[LdiJ]

He's had it for 21 years. If he has used marital funds for maintenance, taxes, etc, then the appreciation is marital. And after 21 years, much of the value would be appreciation.

Valid point...although in today's market he also might have lost much of that appreciation as well. I know that my home is now only worth about what I paid for it 20 years ago. I have nearly full equity of course since the mortgage is nearly paid off, but its value right now is about what I paid for it.

 

[nextwife]

He's had it for 21 years. If he has used marital funds for maintenance, taxes, etc, then the appreciation is marital. And after 21 years, much of the value would be appreciation.

Of course, if he inherited the house, maybe he inherited some cash as well and has been using earnings/funds from those to pay expenses on the inherited home.