No will equals possible mess!

[softy515]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA

My father passed without a will. At least we haven't found one yet. My sister and I have been working on cleaning out my Dad's house ever since he had his second stroke and taking care of his rental units in case we needed the money to pay his bills. At that time, he was unresponsive so we had POA in effect.

He then passes and we continue to take care of the house and working on everything. (A complete mess, my father was a major hoarder)

In steps brother (who has been banned from the properties per my Dad's written noticed hung on the property. Long story short, brother has stole from Dad on and off for years!). Brother wants access to the house now. He claims we are breaking the law but not giving him keys.

We are all going to meet with an estate attorney this week but I need to know how best to protect me and then how to easily proceed with the probate issues. Me and sister want to both be respresentatives of the estate but brother says he will only agree to that if he is allowed in the house and we consult him on decisions and give him weekly updates on the finances. Can he make these demands? Could we over turn it if he insisted on being a representative of the estate also, based on his felony records and past history of stealing from our father?

We have no issues with following the law, splitting everything 1/3 between the 3 siblings. We don't want to have to consult him at every turn nor are we comfortable at this time allowing him in the house.

Thanks in advance.

 

[justalayman]

until a representative of the estate has been named, technically nobody has a right to anything "dad's" including something as simple as entry to the house.

So, open probate and file to seek appointment as administrator and go from there. If you are uninformed of the process, an attorney is almost a requirement. Your brother and yourselves can apply to be representatives. If there are multiple applicants and they cannot work it out themselves, the court will appoint the rep. The court could make all of you co-reps. Of course you can object to the brothers appointment if you believe you have a valid cause. The court will take that into consideration in its decision.

nor are we comfortable at this time allowing him in the house.

and apparently he isn't comfortable with you being in the house either so, until a rep is appointed, all of you should stay out of the house.

 

[softy515]

We will be meeting with an attorney for sure, to much unknown to not have one. Plus there are properties out of state to deal with.

Will having 3 representative of the estate become problematic? Will we all have to be present to sign forms or can we act alone also? One of the biggest things we have to do is unload many cars, either selling the good ones or scraping the bad ones. If we all have to be present every time we change a title over, it could become very time consuming.

 

[justalayman]

softy515;2905162]

Will having 3 representative of the estate become problematic?

It could be. Given the differences between all 3 of you, it will likely result in a lot more cost since you will likely have to address the court much more to settle arguments between the 3 of you. It can also cause things to drag out much longer than necessary due to the same reasoning.

Will we all have to be present to sign forms or can we act alone also? One of the biggest things we have to do is unload many cars, either selling the good ones or scraping the bad ones. If we all have to be present every time we change a title over, it could become very time consuming.

it depends on how it is set up. It could require all 3 or it could require only one to sign for the estate with the others agreeing to the action.

 

[softy515]

It could be. Given the differences between all 3 of you, it will likely result in a lot more cost since you will likely have to address the court much more to settle arguments between the 3 of you. It can also cause things to drag out much longer than necessary due to the same reasoning.

it depends on how it is set up. It could require all 3 or it could require only one to sign for the estate with the others agreeing to the action.

Thanks. Me and my sister are good working together but things get more complicated adding the third sibling. We will see how it plays out when we meet with the attorney.

As for your last statement as to depending on how it is set up..... does it get set up when we arrange things via the attorney or do we have to set things up properly when we go into the court house to sign up to be the representatives? I have been hesitant to complete the process at the court house for fear we would do something to make our lives more complicated.

 

[justalayman]

it would be something you sought to be ordered by the court when you seek being appointed PR.

for now, just wait until you speak with the attorney. S/he can look at the situation and advise you as to the problems with any particular situation in a more meaningful manner.

 

[anteater]

I suggest that you try to settle on only one of you being appointed as the personal representative. Co-reps can be a PITA and the situation often does not end well.

Besides, maybe your brother won't feel that he is begin ganged up upon if it is only one PR.

 

[softy515]

I tried to say just one of us, even suggesting my sister. It was shot down on the spot.

Can you give me an example of how having co-reps can become problematic?

I'm curious as to why the attorney wants to know of life insurance and who is beneficiary when I was under the impression life insurance payouts aren't part of the estate? After all, he could have left his life insurance to an ex girlfriend for all we know.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[Zigner]

You mentioned "step brother". Is the third person your father's son?

 

[softy515]

No step siblings. .

I had said 'in steps brother' meaning he came into the picture.

The only children are the 3 of us.

 

[Zigner]

No step siblings. .

I had said 'in steps brother' meaning he came into the picture.

The only children are the 3 of us.

Thanks for clarifying that...

Can you give me an example of how having co-reps can become problematic?

This is a perfect example of how it can be problematic:

I tried to say just one of us, even suggesting my sister. It was shot down on the spot.

 

[softy515]

Lol I get it.

Yep, it's gonna be rough. I've been accused of holding things up because I think we need to get with the attorney before prceeding. Why do we want to shot ourselves in the foot by making rash and uneducated decisions?

Thanks again!

 

[anteater]

I'm curious as to why the attorney wants to know of life insurance and who is beneficiary when I was under the impression life insurance payouts aren't part of the estate? After all, he could have left his life insurance to an ex girlfriend for all we know.

If there is a surviving named beneficiary, it may just be for completeness. If there is no surviving named beneficiary or the probate estate is the beneficiary, then it would be part of the probate estate. I don't believe that there is any filing in PA in which it is necessary to list the proceeds if the proceeds go directly to a named beneficiary.

However, if your father was the owner of the policy, the proceeds would be considered part of what is called the gross estate, the basis for determining whether there is a federal estate tax liability. That could be a reason.

On the other hand, if the compensation agreement you have with the attorney is based upon a % of the estate, the attorney may try to slip the life insurance proceeds into the base for the calculation. My standard advice in dealing with money matters with an attorney:

Until proven otherwise, assume that you are sitting across the table from a Wall Street derivatives trader who is intent upon getting the best deal for him/herself.


And my standard advice to anybody dealing with a PA probate case:

PA has an inheritance tax that applies to almost everything. (One of the exceptions is life insurance proceeds whether payable directly to a beneficiary or the probate estate.) PA offers a 5% discount on the tax due if paid within 90 days of death. And that 5% applies even if it is only an estimate paid within 90 days. Even if the estate is cash-poor, it is worth it to try to find the cash to take advantage of the discount.

 

[softy515]

When is one owner of a life insurance policy? If he himself was paying on it?

 

[anteater]

There are 3 parties to a life insurance contract: 1) the policy owner, 2) the person whose life is insured, and 3) the beneficiary.

The policy owner is the one who gets to call the shots on the policy. Naming the beneficiary, the right to dividends, the right to surrender the policy if it has cash value, the right to transfer ownership etc.

I may have introduced an unnecessary complication, but policy ownership is one of the factors in calculating the gross estate for federal estate tax purposes.

For the majority of policies, the owner and the insured are the same.