Help with stepdaughter

[kanvirh]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? PA

First and foremost, I browse these forums often just reading up and I know how senior members frown upon questions from "step" anything, however, my husband and I are in a bind and really would appreciate any advice/answers/knowledge that you can give us. My husband is, to say the least, not very computer savvy, so that's why I'm posting. I apologize in advance if this post becomes lengthy.

First.... background. I have an 11 year old daughter, and "we" have a 5 year old daughter and 4 year old son. My husband has a 14 year old daughter from a previous relationship (not married, if it makes a difference). There is a visitation order in place that my husband never neglects, he (we) love his daughter. If the visitation weekends are missed, it's due to requests from his daughter or his ex, mostly for extra-curricular functions or friends activies, etc. Child was diagnosed at 7 with ADHD. I monitor everything with my children that they do online, etc. When his daughter is over, I do so for her as well. When she was 12, I discovered inappropriate sexual text messages to a 16 year old boy on her cell phone (she was on our plan). I informed mom and dad of what I found. Long story short, we took her cell phone away. 6 months later, I discovered she had sent half naked pictures of herself to two boys via email. Again, I informed mom and dad. Laptop was taken away. Fast forward to this year... age 14. She was caught using her Ipod touch and home computer at moms sending more extreme sexual content messages to boys. She now is convinced that she is "in love" with a 17 year old admitted drug addict (facebook interest... "burning the herb"). She has been told by both mom AND dad to stay away from kid (sooo many stories about this kid and incidents that I wont get into). She, of course, declines. My stepdaughter, I believe, has an undiagnosed disorder of possibly ODD or explosive disorder. She goes OFF when caught doing something inappropriate, screaming, slamming things, etc. These behaviors are more prevalent at moms house. She doesnt do that here because we have strict rules and she usually abides by them with an occasional "i dont WANT to" type thing. When she's here, she plays the "I hate my mom" card and the "I dont want to live there, I want to live here" card. Typical teenage behavior that have parents split (I guess I should mention, my husband and his ex gf have been split since she was 3).

She's been caught recently in school making out with this boy (caught by her older sister.. 16... and sister's friends). They sneak out of class, meet in halls, make out, etc. She sneaks out of moms house to meet this boy. Last week she was, once again, caught. Apparently, according to mom, she pushed mom down and kicked her. Mom called cops, cops came and stated they could take her away, but would have to put her in CYS custody, mom declined. (Please be aware, in all honesty, mom has truth issues and all things cant be taken at face value). This morning, (supposed to be our weekend, mom asked if she could keep her to take her to a Pitt football game, my husband agreed) apparently there was another incident. Moms version says (stupid fight over nothing insues) and stepdaughter punches mom in the face. Mom calls cops. While copes were enroute, mom sat on daughter on bed to pin her down. Cops came, daughter disrespectful to both mom AND cops, they handcuff child, haul her away while child screams "I hate you... i want to live with dad" type thing. Cops take child to juvenile detenction center where she sits now. When my husband called the police to find out what happened, the story is basically the same, except kid didnt punch mom in the face, she threw tweezers and it hit her in the mouth. Same difference to me, but whatever. Mom says cops are charging her with simple assault (which she needs to be. There HAS to be consequences for these actions).

My question. Stepdaughter is still saying she wants to come here and live (we live 20 mins apart, differnet school district). My husband and I have no problems doing that. While she is more than a handful, very disrespectful, can be dangerous, and will most likely uproot our house, we are now to the point that we have to TRY. She's a child screaming out for help who needs professional help (mom refuses counseling) and a medication adjustment because my husband believes there is something more than ADHD going on. I love this child. She is not mine, but she has some serious emotional issues and I believe she just needs discipline/rules/love all wrapped up in one (again, this is not the angry ex syndrome, there are issues she has with her mom that are valid).

From what we've been told, she's at the juvenile detention center, will be charged with simple assault, and there will be a hearing either Monday "after 1" or Wednesday. This info we are getting from mom. Why the difference in dates/times, we have no idea. When my husband called the detention center, they told him they usually only deal with custodial parents because they dont know the back stories of their kids. When my stepdaughter was taken to the DH, she was very defiant, stating that she goes to [insert high class school here] a cheerleader and she is a straight A student and her dad was coming to pick her up at that time. Det. Home advised her that she should get comfy, she is there for a while.

Mom is reluctant to give up custody, but she refuses to get this child the help (professional) that she needs. One day she states she cant stay at her house, the next she says she wont let her come live with us.

What happens at the hearing on Monday/Wednesday. Do they just "release" her to custodial parent or is this an actual hearing. We are both going to attend to show solidarity, but we are unsure what actually HAPPENS at this hearing. (sorry for the length of this... we're just both very upset and worried about this 14 year old child who is plummeting down the wrong path). Should we be prepared of the possibility of the judge ordering this child into our custody or do they typically return her to custodial parent?

 

[cyjeff]

That hearing will have nothing whatsoever to do with custody. The child will be released to her parents... and the custody/visitation order goes back into effect.

If you have read this forum, you will realize that only a judge can change a court order. The father of the child will have to file for a change in custody under the presumption that the arrest creates a change in circumstance which necessitates a change.

That is not as easy as it sounds.

 

[kanvirh]

That hearing will have nothing whatsoever to do with custody. The child will be released to her parents... and the custody/visitation order goes back into effect.

If you have read this forum, you will realize that only a judge can change a court order. The father of the child will have to file for a change in custody under the presumption that the arrest creates a change in circumstance which necessitates a change.

That is not as easy as it sounds.

Thank you for your fast response, cyjeff. I was aware that a judge could only change the custody order, but from what we're being told the hearing on Monday/Wednesday will be before a judge. We were confused as to whether the judge would rule that returning the child to mom would be detrimental for both (since the assault charges were against mom). We just wanted to be prepared IF we went to court and suddenly returned home with a 14 year old child (changing work schedules, changing schools, getting clothes, etc.). We believed that the hearing will only be on what to do with her (i.e. returning her to custody-she is being defiant in detention home- or releasing her to mom).

One last question... would you know if release of child to mom, the court would mandate some type of counseling in this situation? We arent looking to strip mom of custody, we are more worried about getting the child the help she needs, regardless of whose home she resides in.

 

[Proserpina]

Thank you for your fast response, cyjeff. I was aware that a judge could only change the custody order, but from what we're being told the hearing on Monday/Wednesday will be before a judge. We were confused as to whether the judge would rule that returning the child to mom would be detrimental for both (since the assault charges were against mom). We just wanted to be prepared IF we went to court and suddenly returned home with a 14 year old child (changing work schedules, changing schools, getting clothes, etc.). We believed that the hearing will only be on what to do with her (i.e. returning her to custody-she is being defiant in detention home- or releasing her to mom).

One last question... would you know if release of child to mom, the court would mandate some type of counseling in this situation? We arent looking to strip mom of custody, we are more worried about getting the child the help she needs, regardless of whose home she resides in.

The court can, yes. Unfortunately it really is a guesstimate at best at this point.

And really - thanks for reading the forum before posting.

Truly

 

[cyjeff]

The court you will be in on Monday will be criminal. To change custody, the parents go to a different court.

Think of it as going to doctors with different specialties.... one won't act in another's arena.

 

[kanvirh]

Thanks for your replies. Honestly. Now, I'm looking for a bit different kind of advice.

If they release my stepdaughter to her mom and they DONT mandate professional help, and mom refuses to get it (which she already is), will THAT be regarded as a "change in circumstance"? At this point, we arent looking for a fight, or to take a child away from her mom. Mom has serious mental health issues (undiagnosed) of her own. (Mom says she is telling the school that stepdaughter had a "death in the family" instead of the truth because the school marks those absenses excused and therefore stepdaughter will be able to participate in an extra-curricular activity that is already scheduled for this coming week.... again, no consequnces for actions).

Mom is unemployed, but has "married up" and is quite a bit better off financially than we are. We would beg, borrow and steal if we thought we had a snowball's chance in hell to help the child. The only thing that my husband insists on is that his daughter is evaluated professionally, and mom refuses. Would it be worth it to even attempt to go through a custody change or is this something minor in the court's eyes that will be dismissed quickly. I know you arent fortune tellers, but you all have much more knowlege in that arena than we do.

ETA: this will be a moot point if the court mandates counseling. That is only our "end all". The only thing that my husband insists on is that his daughter be enrolled in counseling. If they dont mandate it, and ex refuses, THEN we want to know our chances to change custody. Daughter says 85% of the time she wants to live with dad... I dont know if the courts even take child's wishes into consideration at that age.

 

[kanvirh]

In addition (soooo sorry for this... my "one last question" turned into 20).

Cyjeff... when you say its criminal court... I'm sure she will probably be found guilty (she did it, evidence and police know), will this fall off her record or will this follow her for years? And, after court... will we be able to talk to/hug her? This is completely new for us. My stepdaughter has been asking for "daddy" and he is worried that they will bring her in, she will see him there, and they will drag her back out of the courtroom before he is even able to talk to/hug/tell her i love you type thing.

I know... off the wall questions, but good Lord, we have never even been close to this sitaution ever before.

 

[mistoffolees]

Thank you for your fast response, cyjeff. I was aware that a judge could only change the custody order, but from what we're being told the hearing on Monday/Wednesday will be before a judge. We were confused as to whether the judge would rule that returning the child to mom would be detrimental for both (since the assault charges were against mom).

It seems to me that you're confusing two issues.

The hearing this week seems to be for criminal charges. IOW, does the daughter stay locked up or get returned to the parents (or some other penalty)? The criminal court can not determine custody. Once your husband has the ruling of this court, then he can file with FAMILY court to get his daughter's custody changed.

We just wanted to be prepared IF we went to court and suddenly returned home with a 14 year old child (changing work schedules, changing schools, getting clothes, etc.). We believed that the hearing will only be on what to do with her (i.e. returning her to custody-she is being defiant in detention home- or releasing her to mom).

One last question... would you know if release of child to mom, the court would mandate some type of counseling in this situation? We arent looking to strip mom of custody, we are more worried about getting the child the help she needs, regardless of whose home she resides in.

The criminal court could mandate counseling. Although it's not clear if this is just a preliminary hearing or a trial. Generally, counseling would be ordered only at the trial as a condition of probation.

One way or the other, if you and your husband want this girl in your home, your husband will have to file with family court for a change in custody. Since it will take some time to get a hearing, he could probably do that right away without waiting for the outcome of this week's hearing. He might be able to request an emergency hearing, although that's probably a gray area.

Something confuses me about the entire story, though. Does he have joint legal custody? If so, I don't understand why the detention center can't talk with him - at least as far as telling him when the hearing will be. Has he taken his divorce paper to them to show that he has joint legal?

 

[kanvirh]

Yes, he has joint legal custody. He was never married to mom, but does have a court order for custody/visitation.

I should have clarified a bit... The detention home had been calling mom all day with updates, and dad hadnt heard anything from detention home, just what mom would tell me or him. Mom's stories are, to say the least, usually questionable. Dad was wondering why Juvenile Det wasnt calling HIM as well. We werent even sure of where/phone number to the facility she was in. We finally tracked down the facility through process of elimination. When he called, they DID give him information and told him how daughter was doing, etc. That is when they said they dont usually contact anyone other than custodial parent (but they would talk to husband if husband called THEM).

thanks for all the info. I guess, for now, we'll wait for the outcome of the hearing. If counseling isnt mandated, then we'll seek to change the custody order. I'll update after the hearing. Thanks again for all the answers!

 

[kanvirh]

As an update, the hearing was today. When we walked in, the court appointed child advocate (not sure if thats what she was, but I'm guessing) explained that the hearing was to determine if she was to be released, and where. If she were to be released to our home, it would have to be agreed on by all, and the judge would put that in the order.

She was able to sit with us for an hour before (while we waited our turn). She insisted for the hour that she wanted to come home with us, she told her mom she didnt even want to talk to her. Mom persuaded her for the majority of the time, promising lax rules and telling daughter that she could go to homecoming dance, pep rallies and other extra curricular activities scheduled this week. Daughter relented and requested to increase her visitation at our house (from every other weekend to every weekend and hours during the week) but go to moms on discharge. Court only ordered that daughter must cooperate with all "scheduled appointments" made by her mom. Not that her mom enroll her in counseling. So, all in all we're fairly disappointed with the outcome.

We've contacted our attorney (yay, more fees). The attorney seems to believe if we fight for custody, we would win with this change in circumstances. We are reluctant to start that battle so are going to attempt to get a court to mandate counseling somewhere along the way. If no court will, and mom refuses, we wll pursue custody.

Apparently in around 10 days, she will have a second hearing for the criminal charges where she will most likely be placed on some type of probation. We're told the charges will drop off when she turns 18 if she stays out of trouble. We're hoping the probation hearing will order counseling/therapy.

Off topic, but 17 year old boyfriend was also arrested Saturday evening for robbing his grandmother's house for drug money and taken to the same facility. They were, apparently, separated because of gender, but its pretty ironic.

so... wanted to update the status. Thanks again for all the advice/letting me vent.

 

[cyjeff]

Sorry... you are going to hate us for this.

That is the worst parenting I have heard about in a long time.

What the HELL were the parents thinking negotiating "whose house can I get better rules" with a 14 year old child? Why are you negotiating custody not only in FRONT of the child but letting that child be an active participant in the negotiations?

WHILE YOU WERE IN FRIGGING CRIMINAL COURT FOR THAT CHILD?? ON A VIOLENT CHARGE? Did you people not realize where you were?

I am glad you let her negotiate you down to getting to do everything she wanted and is, apparently, going to suffer no repercussions whatsoever.

Did Dad remember to hand her a handful of cash when she got in the car?

You people shouldn't be raising puppies much less children. You just REWARDED the behavior and proved to the child who was in charge... guess what? It isn't the parents!

 

[kanvirh]

Nah, I actually completely agree with you. It wasnt my husband and I negotiating. It was mom coaxing daughter back to "her" side. I just kind of sat agape. The court appointed advocate (?) said that the four parents (mom/stepdad, dad/me-stepmom) were to discuss WITH the child and ultimately the child would decide where she felt she wanted to go IF the court decided she could leave (more or less saying, if they let kid out, where did kid feel the most comfortable/less anger). My SD originally said our home (this would have been a temporary change, not change in custody). Mom is quite against losing custody, even temporarily, and then started in on the "are you SURE you want to go there, you will miss the pep rally, Tuesday, cheer game Wednesday, dance thursday and not to mention this weekend's homecoming dance". Daughter knows at my house she would still be punished for her behaviors, grounding, etc. She thought moms would be the same and when mom started offering her everything but gold ("i know you dont like the no makeup rule, but we will let that one slide as well"), stepdaughter decided to go home. Even when she couldnt promise mom that she wouldnt hit her again. My husband didnt say much about what mom was pulling because a) we were in a courtroom waiting area and b) questioning the other parent's parenting skills in front of the child is something we dont do. We negotiated nothing to her. In fact, when she insisted she was coming home with us at first, we made her aware that there will be consequences for her actions at our house, that she wasnt "off the hook" just because she was out of juvie. We had full intentions of punishment, even if the crime didnt happen at our house. She wont learn any other way. What mom effectively did today is wipe out any chance of this whole ordeal helping the child. Now the child has learned that, not only can she punch mom (or whoever) in the face, get hauled away for a three day vacation from school, but that when she gets out, she gets spoiled and more freedom. Its ridiculous.

In any event, it will be a matter of time (days) before stepdaughter socks her one again. We will make sure there is a court order that mandates therapy/counseling for child (which hopefully mom will partake in). If not, we will fight for it through our attorney. Its our understanding that after the criminal hearing for simple assault charges, there will be lengthy interviews through a probation officer. Hopefully THEY pick up on something amiss.


ETA: the process was, we sat in the waiting room for over an hour waiting our turn. During that time, we were to discuss and decide a course of action. From there, we were moved into a Public Defender room who asked "what did we decide". From there, shuffled into the actual court (but it wasnt a Judge... I think they were calling her "Master"?). During the court hearing, we didnt get a chance to say anything, the "Master" just asked questions, with simple yes or no answers, the majority of the questions were for mom. Public Defender requested child to go home to mom, court agreed.