Fear of taking legal action against DHS

[NellieBly]

What are you talking about?

DHS is the common term in many places.

And OP stated she was in Oregon.

Thank you. I missed the part where she stated her location. I guessed Iowa because I used to live there.

 

[mistoffolees]

Oregon

yes I have done, and I am doing everything they have told me.

here are some of the things. They signed me up for an phycological evaluation/ IQ test. Which it took them 8 months to scheduale the apointments, so I could complete the test.
THe results of the test showed I have an 140 IQ and after the kids being out of home and watching all that they went throught. I was diagnosed with "Borderline anxirty depression do to separation disorder" which the doctor said this is normal under the sercomstancs.

now they have me going to a councelor, It took me several months to set this up because I had to go threw my own insurance. and the insurance does not cover these kinds of apointments unless there is a need for it. I hounded for an apointment and finally got in. Im still going.
and a DBT class that is for people that are suicidle. Its really stupid, cause Ive never been suicidle.

Anyway I would of done cart wheels threw there parking lot nacked to get my girls home. Yes, ive done everything they have told me

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that you have a 140 IQ. Aside from the obvious errors above, your grammar and syntax are not consistent with a very intelligent person.

Even if your story is true, you're not going to dig out of the hole you're in by yourself. You need an attorney.

 

[texaswoodworker]

I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that you have a 140 IQ. Aside from the obvious errors above, your grammar and syntax are not consistent with a very intelligent person.

Even if your story is true, you're not going to dig out of the hole you're in by yourself. You need an attorney.

Really, You are actually going to insult someones intelligence based on their typing ability? Thats stupid.

I have dealt with DHS in the pass and they WILL lie. They will do crap like that because they did it to me. They are not the kind, compassionate, role model organization that everyone thinks they are. I have thought about sueing them for everything they have done to me and I'll still thinking about it.
I don't know what you can legally do, so I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Proserpina]

Really, You are actually going to insult someones intelligence based on their typing ability? Thats stupid.

I have dealt with DHS in the pass and they WILL lie. They will do crap like that because they did it to me. They are not the kind, compassionate, role model organization that everyone thinks they are. I have thought about sueing them for everything they have done to me and I'll still thinking about it.
I don't know what you can legally do, so I wish you the best of luck.

I have to comment here.

A very good friend - an attorney who actually posts on Family Law regularly - can absolutely confirm that CPS/DHS et al are not all roses and glitter "oh but it's for the kids!", and there are times in which certain agencies are absolutely NOT working in the best interests of the child.

That's all.

 

[CdwJava]

From what I have seen one of the big problems with DHS/CPS is that the people employed in this field tend to be social workers and not legal eagles. They act on emotions and feelings far more than they do legalities and finer points of the law. In the agencies where I have worked we (law enforcement) have had to regularly "educate" CPS workers on the legal issues involved with some of the things they want to do. At least once a month we find ourselves having to reign someone in.

We have essentially granted a great deal of legal authority to an organization staffed largely by people whose brains are wired for feeling not always for logical legal analysis. This is, in my opinion, a recipe for disaster because we give people the legal authority to act on their emotions rather than articulated, objective criteria that is scrutinized regularly by an attorney and a court.

What the answer is, I do not know. The only solution I can see is unpalatable because it would require a much greater investment in child service agencies by mandating better initial and ongoing training, greater qualifications, greater scrutiny by attorneys or courts, and generally making the process more expensive ... effectively a quasi law enforcement agency.

 

[mistoffolees]

Really, You are actually going to insult someones intelligence based on their typing ability? Thats stupid.

No, it's not. And it's not all about typing. There were major grammatical errors and use of the incorrect homonym in several places. And you might also notice that OP made exactly the same 'typing errors' in multiple places.

Sorry, but the entire post doesn't read like someone with that level of intelligence.

 

[Ohiogal]

From what I have seen one of the big problems with DHS/CPS is that the people employed in this field tend to be social workers and not legal eagles. They act on emotions and feelings far more than they do legalities and finer points of the law. In the agencies where I have worked we (law enforcement) have had to regularly "educate" CPS workers on the legal issues involved with some of the things they want to do. At least once a month we find ourselves having to reign someone in.

We have essentially granted a great deal of legal authority to an organization staffed largely by people whose brains are wired for feeling not always for logical legal analysis. This is, in my opinion, a recipe for disaster because we give people the legal authority to act on their emotions rather than articulated, objective criteria that is scrutinized regularly by an attorney and a court.

What the answer is, I do not know. The only solution I can see is unpalatable because it would require a much greater investment in child service agencies by mandating better initial and ongoing training, greater qualifications, greater scrutiny by attorneys or courts, and generally making the process more expensive ... effectively a quasi law enforcement agency.

I agree that they need better training (both initial and ongoing) and the caseworkers that lie on the stand need fired. IMMEDIATELY. They don't get to use the excuse that they were "doing it for the children" or what not.

A training given to social workers in Ohio tells them to LIE to the parents regarding the parents' rights. Additionally, if being friendly to the parents does not work in getting what they want, social workers then THREATEN the parents with either cooperating or removing the child immediately.

I can count on one hand the number of case workers that I have NOT caught outright lying to parents or lying on the stand under oath. Not to mention they remove children even when they KNOW that the Court of Appeals will order them returned. The Appeals court however takes a year to rule (if not more) and by then they have already gotten evidence to open a new case.

I will be quite frank that if parents are in my county I tell them to REFUSE to cooperate with CSB/DHS until there is a COURT ORDER requiring them to do so. I tell them to shut the door if a caseworker shows up on their front porch -- even if the caseworker states that they will call the police. I also tell them to tell the police to not come back until there is a search warrant. Why? Because the system in this county tends to be corrupt and ignorant.

I have had police officers (no offense, CDW) testify that even though the POLICY of the department is not in line with the caselaw they will continue with what they are doing -- which results in improper removal of children from their parents. That does NOT give a good opinion of the police that are supposed to protect and serve in this county.

 

[CdwJava]

I have had police officers (no offense, CDW) testify that even though the POLICY of the department is not in line with the caselaw they will continue with what they are doing -- which results in improper removal of children from their parents. That does NOT give a good opinion of the police that are supposed to protect and serve in this county.

I don't think that happens much out here. With about half of the nation's lawyers here, we run scared on issues of liability every day. This is why many agencies often get into pissing matches with CPS agencies here. My local agency frequently asks or even "demands" that we do something that we do not see a legal right to do absent a court order.

While things have gotten better here, they recently took a turn for the worse. The directors and supervisors at our local office who we had developed a close working relationship with have mostly retired or moved on to other positions within the last year and that has caused the vacuum to be filled by people who are less informed. I tend to be the one that gets assigned to deal with CPS so I get the headaches.

Yes, there are problems. But, I have found that most of the social workers - perhaps all of them - are in it for the right reasons and they WANT to help the children. The problem is that they act emotionally and not legally. There is a reason that there is due process and that is to try and prevent the overly emotional act that can devastate families. More training in the law should be essential. Greater patience, better pay, higher qualifications, and greater supervision and oversight would be a plus. I believe the system CAN work, but CPS needs to be looked upon as a quasi-law enforcement agency more so than a social services agency. It has a foot in each realm. And, quite frankly, modern law enforcement is already acting as emergency response social workers in so many ways.

 

[commentator]

And from experience---parents will lie like mad, the smarter they are, the better they are at this lying and covering up. And often at thinking of inventive and dreadful forms of abuse. This O.P. is sending off terrible vibes to me because of the "140 I.Q." and the strange misspellings, which are not the kind of misspellings that an uneducated person would make, but are the kind that a person who was trying to appear simple would make by deliberately misspelling things and using the wrong words. And then we might mention the hole in this story that is as big as Iowa, the reason these kids were pulled in the first place, and how much cooperation the OP has given to the return process.

"Dirty and smelly" had probably been reported again and again, noted by the school system, many times children come to school bruised, disarrayed, limping and reeking of sex, and "dirty and smelly" is the euphemism used. Children are not pulled from homes due to benign neglect, even if the parent has allowed their grooming to become faulty or sent them to school in dirty clothes. There are too few placements available for the really bad ones where the parents are pimping them out and burning them with cigarette butts for DCS to worry about not enough tooth brushing and Dial and maybe not a healthy breakfast.

Those feeling-not-logical and possibly inexperienced caseworkers, (who incidentally took the job partly because anyone with a degree can get the jobs because the turnover rate is spectacular) see some of the most unbelievably horrific things and get such a quick, brutal introduction into a side of the world they never dreamed of that they sometimes overreact and become truth, justice and the over-zealous saviors of every child they deal with. And they might actually be over reacting, true, might be mistaken. The children usually want to stay at home, really love their parents, and will protect them no matter how they are being treated.

And don't forget that often when the really bad cases of child abuse become public, the ones where the children die, the case worker and the department is blamed and sometimes prosecuted for inactivity. As if they could magically sort the really bad from the blameless and falsely accused. And so many good people come in and leave the job screaming, very quickly, that the ones who hang in, those who stay, are probably not always the best. If you're going to expose yourself to daily horrors and work yourself to death, why not get paid to do it if you possibly can find a job somewhere else? I agree very strongly, the system could be fixed with a big dose of money and better training and more status and recognition. But you know what, it's not going to be, not in today's economy and idealogical mindset, and people who work there are going to continue to either be sincere cause carrying martyrs or incompetents who can't get a job elsewhere.

Our child protective services system is broken and malfunctioning, like so many systems operated by the states it is in place and still functioning at all only because of federal mandates, and they are certainly imperfect. But I suspect that they aren't wrong about this person. You don't do this much "hounding" of a client family for amusement and entertainment. There's plenty else they could be doing.

 

[xylene]

The OP's posts read like someone with a mental problem.

Disordered thoughts, non-linear narrative, denial, fixation, intractability (No one has ever told me I have the mental problems. - Except the government and my own psych...)

 

[CdwJava]

And from experience---parents will lie like mad, the smarter they are, the better they are at this lying and covering up.And often at thinking of inventive and dreadful forms of abuse.

Of course. Though less because they want to abuse, and more because they are excusing their actions as somehow necessary or justified.

This O.P. is sending off terrible vibes to me because of the "140 I.Q." and the strange misspellings, which are not the kind of misspellings that an uneducated person would make, but are the kind that a person who was trying to appear simple would make by deliberately misspelling things and using the wrong words.

However, let us not confuse IQ for actual education. One can possess a high IQ without being formally educated. My first IQ test was when I was in the 4th grade ... I was not very well educated and scored quite high. The point being that IQ is not a measure of education, but of potential. Even then, the value of IQ is a matter of rather intense debate in academic circles.

I do agree, however, that something does not smell right here and that a single complaint is not likely to result in the removal of the children from the home and a mandate for counseling. Something more is amiss here.

Those feeling-not-logical and possibly inexperienced caseworkers, (who incidentally took the job partly because anyone with a degree can get the jobs because the turnover rate is spectacular) see some of the most unbelievably horrific things and get such a quick, brutal introduction into a side of the world they never dreamed of that they sometimes overreact and become truth, justice and the over-zealous saviors of every child they deal with.

All the more reason that CPS agencies should be thought of more as law enforcement than social work. Part of the law enforcement training and screening process is to address these issues of what an officer sees. And even officers can get cynical and burned out. A CPS worker who sees the same thing but lacks the emotional foundation or training to learn to cope with it is likely to burn out or become overzealous as you describe. And this can lead to that tendency to justify even unlawful or questionable actions on the part of the caseworker.

And don't forget that often when the really bad cases of child abuse become public, the ones where the children die, the case worker and the department is blamed and sometimes prosecuted for inactivity.

Yep. Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

In CA we narrowly dodged a bullet a few years ago which would have removed qualified immunity from caseworkers and law enforcement who removed children from a home. The scuttlebutt at the time was that there would then be no exigent seizures absent a court order, but then the thought was that they could also be sued for failing to act. As such, there were plans in some agencies for a wholesale exodus (or nearly so). Such a law would have gutted child services here.

 

[LdiJ]

Of course. Though less because they want to abuse, and more because they are excusing their actions as somehow necessary or justified.


However, let us not confuse IQ for actual education. One can possess a high IQ without being formally educated. My first IQ test was when I was in the 4th grade ... I was not very well educated and scored quite high. The point being that IQ is not a measure of education, but of potential. Even then, the value of IQ is a matter of rather intense debate in academic circles.

I do agree, however, that something does not smell right here and that a single complaint is not likely to result in the removal of the children from the home and a mandate for counseling. Something more is amiss here.


All the more reason that CPS agencies should be thought of more as law enforcement than social work. Part of the law enforcement training and screening process is to address these issues of what an officer sees. And even officers can get cynical and burned out. A CPS worker who sees the same thing but lacks the emotional foundation or training to learn to cope with it is likely to burn out or become overzealous as you describe. And this can lead to that tendency to justify even unlawful or questionable actions on the part of the caseworker.


Yep. Darned if you do, darned if you don't.

In CA we narrowly dodged a bullet a few years ago which would have removed qualified immunity from caseworkers and law enforcement who removed children from a home. The scuttlebutt at the time was that there would then be no exigent seizures absent a court order, but then the thought was that they could also be sued for failing to act. As such, there were plans in some agencies for a wholesale exodus (or nearly so). Such a law would have gutted child services here.

Still though, I really wish that there was somehow more accountability and oversight.

I have had a few false calls made about me to CPS and with one exception the caseworkers were pleasant and nice and indicated up front that they did not expect to find anything, and didn't. One caseworker even told me that she knew ahead of time that it was a false complaint, because it was too outlandish...too over the top.

I understand why anonymous reporting is allowed, but I really think that it allows people to use CPS to harass innocent people. I know who did it to me, and it was purely to harass. She eventually went to jail for false reporting...so yes, that CAN happen.

 

[Ohiogal]

I won't comment on this individual OP but there are some things that were glaring in your post.

Dirty and smelly" had probably been reported again and again, noted by the school system, many times children come to school bruised, disarrayed, limping and reeking of sex, and "dirty and smelly" is the euphemism used. Children are not pulled from homes due to benign neglect, even if the parent has allowed their grooming to become faulty or sent them to school in dirty clothes. There are too few placements available for the really bad ones where the parents are pimping them out and burning them with cigarette butts for DCS to worry about not enough tooth brushing and Dial and maybe not a healthy breakfast.

Wrong. At least here it is wrong. I have had several cases where the probable cause for removal was the caseworker saw dishes in the sink from the night before and that was articulated to the court. The Court of Appeals has ruled on many such cases where the children were sleeping on unmade beds and there was a light bulb out. In this COUNTY it happens. They remove children for stupid reasons. Couple that with the fact that when I, as a mandated reporter called in about a sex abuse allegation that ended up in my office, the hotline worker stated that unless I knew how deep the penetration was the agency wouldn't do anything. That is the ridiculousness of THIS agency.

Those feeling-not-logical and possibly inexperienced caseworkers, (who incidentally took the job partly because anyone with a degree can get the jobs because the turnover rate is spectacular) see some of the most unbelievably horrific things and get such a quick, brutal introduction into a side of the world they never dreamed of that they sometimes overreact and become truth, justice and the over-zealous saviors of every child they deal with. And they might actually be over reacting, true, might be mistaken. The children usually want to stay at home, really love their parents, and will protect them no matter how they are being treated.

Our child protective services system is broken and malfunctioning, like so many systems operated by the states it is in place and still functioning at all only because of federal mandates, and they are certainly imperfect. But I suspect that they aren't wrong about this person. You don't do this much "hounding" of a client family for amusement and entertainment. There's plenty else they could be doing.

Some do.

 

[mistoffolees]

However, let us not confuse IQ for actual education. One can possess a high IQ without being formally educated. My first IQ test was when I was in the 4th grade ... I was not very well educated and scored quite high. The point being that IQ is not a measure of education, but of potential. Even then, the value of IQ is a matter of rather intense debate in academic circles.

I'm well aware of that. But OP's post was far to poorly written for a person with that IQ - even if they only had a 6th or 8th grade education.