I had it under controll

[Plowboy55]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Tennessee
Ok here we go, please stick with me.
I married a woman 9 years younger than me. I helped her get her college education. I built her a home, and never went in debt to do it. The home sits on the ground that I have stomped my entire life,and which has always been meant for me to have. It is deeded to me only,from my father, but was deeded to me during the marriage.A sort of pre-death inheritance, if you will.
My wife was verbally given a bussiness thaknsgiving of 07, from her grandparents. Conveniently for her ,there was never any paper trail made out for her ownership interest in the bussiness, she solely operates the bussiness.And has advertised herself as the owner, in the local phonebook, and on certain social websites, and has told countless folks around the area that she does indeed own the bussiness. I guess its all good ,as long as its convenient for her.
In feb this year, dad gave us another piece of ground, in both our names where I was going to go in debt to build her another home. She left in april,and registered the deed for this piece of property after she had left home. And has refused to transfer a deed back to my dad, I guess she is holding it hostage.....
We have a 2 year old little girl,and have agreed through mediation on 50/50 custody. That alone is all the mediation was able to gain us. I have had her for roughly 25 more days in the past 8 months, due to my wife taking a beach vacation for 11 days and going to vegas for 10 days,and my wife just asking me to keep her a day or 2 here and there.
I guess what I would like opinions on are
1. Will my contribution to her education be considered?
2. Will the gift of the land where my home sits be considered?
3. Will she have to give my dad the piece of ground he gave us in feb. back?
4. Since there was never anything written, giving her ownership of her bussiness. Do I have a leg to stand on for using the value of that bussiness to offset what she wants from me?
I never cheated on this woman, I was never mean to her, I have always held or marriage with the greatest regard.
Theres more to talk about, but Im starving. I will be back through here later to continue yackin at you fine folks. Thanks in advance.

 

[OHRoadwarrior]

You need a lawyer. Fast!!!

 

[Banned_Princess]

Super fast.

Like yesterday.

 

[Plowboy55]

I have a lawyer, and I have been thinking that he isnt so great. But I am realizing more and more that I have been counting on him too much to build my case for me. Im not by any means a wealthy man, and have had to really struggle and sacrifice over the last 8 months to pay him what I have paid him.
Over dinner I had a discussion on this with an old friend, he brought some things to my attention that I had never evn thought of. For instance I have been looking for something with her name on it that proves her ownership, I have bussiness liscences, tax report forms to counties that she does bussiness in, all of which she has prepared and signed off on, but none of them actually show any ownership interest to her specifically, however, her name is on them...... My thinking now, is that I need to either somehow figure out how to get my lawyer to, or hire another "person" to find out whether or not her role in this bussiness constitutes , whether her name is on any corporate documents showing ownership or not, that in fact she does act the part enough to prove that she is in fact the apparent, and intended owner.
Now,,, yall are gonne think Im loony as a bed bug, but I personally do not want to take anything from her, as it would somewhat diminish her financial ability to care for and provide for our child. On the other hand,,,,,she is trying to financially cripple me, with no regard to how it will effect my ability to care for our child, in fact she has told me when I tried to expain that fact to her, that she didnt give a damn that was not her problem.
I have to get started on a timeline of how I helped her get her education, helped her in many other ways too.
It is my hope that there is someone on these forums that has some helpfull hints as to what steps I should take on the problems I am facing,and posts it up on here.
In the end I hope that I can walk away from this proving to her and myself, that there is morals still left in folks, and noone should try and hurt anyone, let alone someone they have supposedly loved and cared about.
Yall can sit back and giggle, smirk, whatever ya feel like, but Im gonna check back eagerly, and see if the right person has read this and doesnt care to help a hillbilly outta this vice around his nads.

 

[Plowboy55]

I have a lawyer, and I have been thinking that he isnt so great. But I am realizing more and more that I have been counting on him too much to build my case for me. Im not by any means a wealthy man, and have had to really struggle and sacrifice over the last 8 months to pay him what I have paid him.
Over dinner I had a discussion on this with an old friend, he brought some things to my attention that I had never evn thought of. For instance I have been looking for something with her name on it that proves her ownership, I have bussiness liscences, tax report forms to counties that she does bussiness in, all of which she has prepared and signed off on, but none of them actually show any ownership interest to her specifically, however, her name is on them...... My thinking now, is that I need to either somehow figure out how to get my lawyer to, or hire another "person" to find out whether or not her role in this bussiness constitutes , whether her name is on any corporate documents showing ownership or not, that in fact she does act the part enough to prove that she is in fact the apparent, and intended owner.
Now,,, yall are gonne think Im loony as a bed bug, but I personally do not want to take anything from her, as it would somewhat diminish her financial ability to care for and provide for our child. On the other hand,,,,,she is trying to financially cripple me, with no regard to how it will effect my ability to care for our child, in fact she has told me when I tried to expain that fact to her, that she didnt give a damn that was not her problem.
I have to get started on a timeline of how I helped her get her education, helped her in many other ways too.
It is my hope that there is someone on these forums that has some helpfull hints as to what steps I should take on the problems I am facing,and posts it up on here.
In the end I hope that I can walk away from this proving to her and myself, that there is morals still left in folks, and noone should try and hurt anyone, let alone someone they have supposedly loved and cared about.
Yall can sit back and giggle, smirk, whatever ya feel like, but Im gonna check back eagerly, and see if the right person has read this and doesnt care to help a hillbilly outta this vice around his nads.

 

[mistoffolees]

I have a lawyer, and I have been thinking that he isnt so great. But I am realizing more and more that I have been counting on him too much to build my case for me. Im not by any means a wealthy man, and have had to really struggle and sacrifice over the last 8 months to pay him what I have paid him.
Over dinner I had a discussion on this with an old friend, he brought some things to my attention that I had never evn thought of. For instance I have been looking for something with her name on it that proves her ownership, I have bussiness liscences, tax report forms to counties that she does bussiness in, all of which she has prepared and signed off on, but none of them actually show any ownership interest to her specifically, however, her name is on them...... My thinking now, is that I need to either somehow figure out how to get my lawyer to, or hire another "person" to find out whether or not her role in this bussiness constitutes , whether her name is on any corporate documents showing ownership or not, that in fact she does act the part enough to prove that she is in fact the apparent, and intended owner.
Now,,, yall are gonne think Im loony as a bed bug, but I personally do not want to take anything from her, as it would somewhat diminish her financial ability to care for and provide for our child. On the other hand,,,,,she is trying to financially cripple me, with no regard to how it will effect my ability to care for our child, in fact she has told me when I tried to expain that fact to her, that she didnt give a damn that was not her problem.
I have to get started on a timeline of how I helped her get her education, helped her in many other ways too.
It is my hope that there is someone on these forums that has some helpfull hints as to what steps I should take on the problems I am facing,and posts it up on here.
In the end I hope that I can walk away from this proving to her and myself, that there is morals still left in folks, and noone should try and hurt anyone, let alone someone they have supposedly loved and cared about.
Yall can sit back and giggle, smirk, whatever ya feel like, but Im gonna check back eagerly, and see if the right person has read this and doesnt care to help a hillbilly outta this vice around his nads.

Seriously, if you're not happy with your attorney, switch now before it's too late. You have far too much at stake to risk it. You say you built a house for your wife without going into debt and are now building another one. That means that the amount of money involved is significant - whether you consider yourself 'wealthy' or not.

Here are the facts that you have to deal with:

TN is an equitable distribution state. That means that the judge can divide property in any way that he sees as fair. It doesn't necessarily have to be 50:50. However, a lot will ride on what you can prove. Regarding specific issues:

1. The first house you built is on land that was given to you by your father. You can try to make the argument that you should receive that house because it was on land that was in your family. You'd have a good case with respect to the land, but if you used marital assets to build the house (such as your income while married), then she could argue that the house should be half hers. In your shoes, I would be asking to keep the house, but reimburse her for 1/2 of the HOME value (without the land).

2. Her education probably doesn't matter much. That's what married people do. However, if she asks for alimony, you might be able to argue that she should not receive alimony because you provided her with an education so she should be able to support herself. In addition, there's the fact that she has a steady job with her family business which will argue against alimony.

3. Her business will be tricky. You are certainly free to bring in witnesses that heard her say that she owned the business, but they may not be convincing. Especially if the business involves any real estate (where transactions MUST be in writing), it may be hard to overcome any presumption that the business still belongs to her parents. Unless you can find documentary evidence that she owns the business, it's going to be hard to get any of it. I would talk with a private investigator who might be able to dig something up. But if ownership was never transferred to her name, you're out of luck. From what you're saying, she's an officer of the company but doesn't own any of it.

4. The land you received in Feb is going to be a problem for you. Since it was gifted to both of you, there will be a presumption that it belongs equally to both of you.

As you can see, you're not in a strong position which is why you need a very good attorney. You see, your ex is correct - she has every right to try to cripple you financially. With a good attorney, you should be able to minimize the damage, but you're not likely to walk away with all the assets by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Plowboy55]

The bussiness was given to her by her grandfather, who along with her grandmother are in thier 70s. My wife has taken the bussiness to another level and it has become much more than a mom and pops type of deal. I can see where you are coming from with the statement that she is only an officer, she has claimed the same thing, but niether one of her grandparents in ever around, or make any decisions dealing with the bussiness anymore.She alone handles every aspect of purchasing, sales,payroll, taxes,etc,etc,etc. She has purchased 4 brand new service vehicles this summer alone, which combined with the older vehicles the shop owns,are of more value than my home.
No improvement has been made to the land gifted to us in Feb, as I finally started to get a picture of where things were headed,and put a halt to the loan process.
Her shop is set up as a S corp. Forgive me for not knowing, but shouldnt there be more than 1 officer?
And what about any marital funds that she has probably hidden within the bussiness? I mean in the last 3 years she has shown over $300,000.00 in loss, yet the doors are open every day, along with more and more new vehicles and employees. And not to mention the over $100,000.00 glorified barn on her grandparents farm, new tractors and farm implements, so on ,and so forth. She has done very well, with the education I helped her get,and the labor that I put into our home,and that damn big ass barn, not to mention the help that I have given her shop.
Oh I cant forget the trips that her suppliers have sent us on, hawaii 2 times, alaska,the indy 500, bahamas,Marthas vineyard,Destin Fla. All those trips are supposedly reserved and meant for "owners of the shops selling the goods of the suppliers" She actually got into a little trouble over that very fact with 1 of the suppliers, because she sent her momma and aunt on a cruise to somewhere early this spring.
I know that it will be ugly to drag quite a few people that I love into court but I am not going to just lay there and take what she is trying to do to me. They will paint a picture of " I dont recall that conversation at thanksgiving in 07" They certainly have done nothing to stop her from being totally unreasonable and ruthless in trying to take everything that I have worked for. So maybe we can all go out to dinner after court that day.
The right attorney could get this thing done,in my favor. I am sure of that fact. Now where is this person located?

 

[mistoffolees]

The bussiness was given to her by her grandfather, who along with her grandmother are in thier 70s. My wife has taken the bussiness to another level and it has become much more than a mom and pops type of deal. I can see where you are coming from with the statement that she is only an officer, she has claimed the same thing, but niether one of her grandparents in ever around, or make any decisions dealing with the bussiness anymore.She alone handles every aspect of purchasing, sales,payroll, taxes,etc,etc,etc. She has purchased 4 brand new service vehicles this summer alone, which combined with the older vehicles the shop owns,are of more value than my home.
No improvement has been made to the land gifted to us in Feb, as I finally started to get a picture of where things were headed,and put a halt to the loan process.
Her shop is set up as a S corp. Forgive me for not knowing, but shouldnt there be more than 1 officer?
And what about any marital funds that she has probably hidden within the bussiness? I mean in the last 3 years she has shown over $300,000.00 in loss, yet the doors are open every day, along with more and more new vehicles and employees. And not to mention the over $100,000.00 glorified barn on her grandparents farm, new tractors and farm implements, so on ,and so forth. She has done very well, with the education I helped her get,and the labor that I put into our home,and that damn big ass barn, not to mention the help that I have given her shop.
Oh I cant forget the trips that her suppliers have sent us on, hawaii 2 times, alaska,the indy 500, bahamas,Marthas vineyard,Destin Fla. All those trips are supposedly reserved and meant for "owners of the shops selling the goods of the suppliers" She actually got into a little trouble over that very fact with 1 of the suppliers, because she sent her momma and aunt on a cruise to somewhere early this spring.
I know that it will be ugly to drag quite a few people that I love into court but I am not going to just lay there and take what she is trying to do to me. They will paint a picture of " I dont recall that conversation at thanksgiving in 07" They certainly have done nothing to stop her from being totally unreasonable and ruthless in trying to take everything that I have worked for. So maybe we can all go out to dinner after court that day.
The right attorney could get this thing done,in my favor. I am sure of that fact. Now where is this person located?

You really need to educate yourself - on a lot of matters.

First, the grandparents appear to be absentee owners. It is not at all uncommon for someone to own a business and never go near it if they have a manager they trust. Nothing you've cited proves that stbx owns any part of the business. You'll need the corporate ownership documents for that - so subpoena them.

Being an officer is also irrelevant, frankly. It doesn't matter if there are other officers or not. And it is also not uncommon for other officers to not have any involvement day-to-day.

Losses? Not uncommon in a small business. There are a zillion ways to show a loss on a business even if it is generating cash for the owners. So the fact that they showed a loss doesn't prove that they used marital funds to support the business. If they did, AND if you can prove it (via a forensic accountant), then you would have a chance of getting 1/2 of that money back. (The only thing I can think of where years of losses would be an issue is that for some types of businesses, if you lose money year after year, it can be considered a hobby and you lose the tax deduction, but it would be surprising if that's the case from what you described).

As I stated before, your stbx and her family do not have to make life easier for you. In fact, it would be surprising if they did. You need to take responsibility for yourself. Get an attorney. Ask friends. Use the referral service on this page. Call the state Bar for a referral. Do something other than sit there wringing your hands.

 

[LdiJ]

You really need to educate yourself - on a lot of matters.

First, the grandparents appear to be absentee owners. It is not at all uncommon for someone to own a business and never go near it if they have a manager they trust. Nothing you've cited proves that stbx owns any part of the business. You'll need the corporate ownership documents for that - so subpoena them.

Being an officer is also irrelevant, frankly. It doesn't matter if there are other officers or not. And it is also not uncommon for other officers to not have any involvement day-to-day.

Losses? Not uncommon in a small business. There are a zillion ways to show a loss on a business even if it is generating cash for the owners. So the fact that they showed a loss doesn't prove that they used marital funds to support the business. If they did, AND if you can prove it (via a forensic accountant), then you would have a chance of getting 1/2 of that money back. (The only thing I can think of where years of losses would be an issue is that for some types of businesses, if you lose money year after year, it can be considered a hobby and you lose the tax deduction, but it would be surprising if that's the case from what you described).

As I stated before, your stbx and her family do not have to make life easier for you. In fact, it would be surprising if they did. You need to take responsibility for yourself. Get an attorney. Ask friends. Use the referral service on this page. Call the state Bar for a referral. Do something other than sit there wringing your hands.

Misto, you are forgetting the fact that IF she owns the business, it was a gift from her family. That makes it her separate property, just like the piece of land that their home sits on is his separate property.

Therefore its pointless for him to try to prove anything about the business. He would just be spinning his wheels unless its just to prove that she does have an independent income.

As far as the second piece of land is concerned, I think that only his father might have a cause of action there. His father may be able to make the case that she fraudulently accepted a gift of family property, knowing that she was going to be ending the marriage.

 

[mistoffolees]

Misto, you are forgetting the fact that IF she owns the business, it was a gift from her family. That makes it her separate property, just like the piece of land that their home sits on is his separate property.

Therefore its pointless for him to try to prove anything about the business. He would just be spinning his wheels unless its just to prove that she does have an independent income.

I agree that he's spinning his wheels since he has no evidence of anything. However, the fact that it was a gift to her is not the only factor that matters. He is also arguing that marital funds were used to support the business - so some commingling may have occurred. In any event, it is pointless to speculate if he has no evidence.

 

[LdiJ]

I agree that he's spinning his wheels since he has no evidence of anything. However, the fact that it was a gift to her is not the only factor that matters. He is also arguing that marital funds were used to support the business - so some commingling may have occurred. In any event, it is pointless to speculate if he has no evidence.

Misto, the business is an S-corp. He never indicated that any marital money got put into it, and it generated losses (probably due to bonus depreciation and 179 expenses, based on what he described) therefore those losses reduced marital taxes. There is no way that any comingling occurred here.

 

[Bali Hai]

I have a lawyer, and I have been thinking that he isnt so great. But I am realizing more and more that I have been counting on him too much to build my case for me. Im not by any means a wealthy man, and have had to really struggle and sacrifice over the last 8 months to pay him what I have paid him.
Over dinner I had a discussion on this with an old friend, he brought some things to my attention that I had never evn thought of. For instance I have been looking for something with her name on it that proves her ownership, I have bussiness liscences, tax report forms to counties that she does bussiness in, all of which she has prepared and signed off on, but none of them actually show any ownership interest to her specifically, however, her name is on them...... My thinking now, is that I need to either somehow figure out how to get my lawyer to, or hire another "person" to find out whether or not her role in this bussiness constitutes , whether her name is on any corporate documents showing ownership or not, that in fact she does act the part enough to prove that she is in fact the apparent, and intended owner.
Now,,, yall are gonne think Im loony as a bed bug, but I personally do not want to take anything from her, as it would somewhat diminish her financial ability to care for and provide for our child. On the other hand,,,,,she is trying to financially cripple me, with no regard to how it will effect my ability to care for our child, in fact she has told me when I tried to expain that fact to her, that she didnt give a damn that was not her problem.
I have to get started on a timeline of how I helped her get her education, helped her in many other ways too.
It is my hope that there is someone on these forums that has some helpfull hints as to what steps I should take on the problems I am facing,and posts it up on here.
In the end I hope that I can walk away from this proving to her and myself, that there is morals still left in folks, and noone should try and hurt anyone, let alone someone they have supposedly loved and cared about.
Yall can sit back and giggle, smirk, whatever ya feel like, but Im gonna check back eagerly, and see if the right person has read this and doesnt care to help a hillbilly outta this vice around his nads.

You'll be lucky to get out of this one with your racoon fur hat and buckskin jacket.

 

[mistoffolees]

Misto, the business is an S-corp. He never indicated that any marital money got put into it, and it generated losses (probably due to bonus depreciation and 179 expenses, based on what he described) therefore those losses reduced marital taxes. There is no way that any comingling occurred here.

Possibly not, but he is claiming that she may have used marital assets to prop up the business. If marital assets were used to fund the business, then he would have a case. (I'm not saying that's what actually happened, but IF he's correct, then he can make a claim).

Now, it's an S corp, so the divorce court would not be able to do anything about ownership of the corporation even if she did use marital assets to fund it. But since it's an equitable distribution state, they could give OP a larger percentage of marital assets to make up for any dissipation of marital assets into the business (again, IF it occurred and IF OP can prove it).

 

[LdiJ]

Possibly not, but he is claiming that she may have used marital assets to prop up the business. If marital assets were used to fund the business, then he would have a case. (I'm not saying that's what actually happened, but IF he's correct, then he can make a claim).

Now, it's an S corp, so the divorce court would not be able to do anything about ownership of the corporation even if she did use marital assets to fund it. But since it's an equitable distribution state, they could give OP a larger percentage of marital assets to make up for any dissipation of marital assets into the business (again, IF it occurred and IF OP can prove it).

I have read the whole thread twice, and if he mentioned any marital assets going into the business I sure missed it.