discipline referral question

[washst7]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington

I am a teacher. Recently one of my students was gone to the restroom with permission (hall pass) and became insubordinate toward another teacher. I was informed of this and was told by that teacher that it is my responsibility to write a discipline referral because she is my student. I don't feel comfortable with that, as I did not witness the event and believe the referral is a legal document. Anything I write concerning that incident would be second hand and hearsay. Is my position tenable? Is he right?

 

[LdiJ]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington

I am a teacher. Recently one of my students was gone to the restroom with permission (hall pass) and became insubordinate toward another teacher. I was informed of this and was told by that teacher that it is my responsibility to write a discipline referral because she is my student. I don't feel comfortable with that, as I did not witness the event and believe the referral is a legal document. Anything I write concerning that incident would be second hand and hearsay. Is my position tenable? Is he right?

I certainly think so. You didn't witness anything.

 

[ecmst12]

And what did your boss say?

 

[I'mTheFather]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington

I am a teacher. Recently one of my students was gone to the restroom with permission (hall pass) and became insubordinate toward another teacher. I was informed of this and was told by that teacher that it is my responsibility to write a discipline referral because she is my student. I don't feel comfortable with that, as I did not witness the event and believe the referral is a legal document. Anything I write concerning that incident would be second hand and hearsay. Is my position tenable? Is he right?

This isn't a legal question unless you plan to lie on the discipline referral. Either the other teacher writes it firsthand, or you write it by stating that Mr. Teacher reported that John Doe was insubordinate.

 

[washst7]

follow up questions

Since a referral can be used as evidence in a court and it can also be challenged in court, doesn't it become a legal issue?

Is the professional communication between two teachers considered first hand(eye witness) information?

 

[I'mTheFather]

Since a referral can be used as evidence in a court and it can also be challenged in court, doesn't it become a legal issue?

Is the professional communication between two teachers considered first hand(eye witness) information?

Get a backbone. If you don't want to write the referral, then tell your colleague to write it himself. There is no law that says you can't write it.

 

[washst7]

Listen, I don't want personal advice. I certainly have enough backbone to stand up to him and you for that matter. I am simply curious about the legal issues or lack thereof that may be involved here. If you don't have any lucid LEGAL input, then don't post.

 

[cbg]

Okay, here is your legal input.

This is not a legal issue. The law does not say that you must write the referral because he is your student; likewise the law does not say that you cannot write the referral because you did not see what happened. Either write it as suggested in the third response, or don't write it. In either case, there are no legal ramifications. It's simply a matter of what your particular school suggests.

 

[Humusluvr]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Washington

I am a teacher. Recently one of my students was gone to the restroom with permission (hall pass) and became insubordinate toward another teacher. I was informed of this and was told by that teacher that it is my responsibility to write a discipline referral because she is my student. I don't feel comfortable with that, as I did not witness the event and believe the referral is a legal document. Anything I write concerning that incident would be second hand and hearsay. Is my position tenable? Is he right?

Either write the referral documenting exactly what your position was, or tell him to write it himself. You could always suggest you will write a supporting document (even if it just tells the account from your view, which is "I wrote a hall pass. Student returned late. I was later informed by another teacher that student became insubordinate, although I did not witness it."). But most of all, make sure you keep the line of communication open. Tell the other teacher what you are going to do, and if you write a supporting document, CC the other teacher on it - if that is the policy.

In reality, this is not your battle to fight. You had no part in this, except issuing the hall pass. And you should stick to that.

Is this becoming a bigger problem than just an insubordinate student? Are they trying to use this to get him suspended or expelled?

 

[Humusluvr]

Get a backbone. If you don't want to write the referral, then tell your colleague to write it himself. There is no law that says you can't write it.

I would rather see the teacher ASK the question, than to do something that puts her career or the student in jeopardy. I applaud the OP for asking, rather making a potential mistake.

 

[I'mTheFather]

I would rather see the teacher ASK the question, than to do something that puts her career or the student in jeopardy. I applaud the OP for asking, rather making a potential mistake.

OP's question was answered prior to the post you quoted. OP was given options. OP was insistent on finding some law that would prevent him/her from writing the referral, rather than just telling the colleague to write it himself.

I sure hope OP realizes that every time he/she scribbles a note about a student on a slip of paper, he/she has created a potential 'legal document' that can be used as evidence in court.

 

[Humusluvr]

OP's question was answered prior to the post you quoted. OP was given options. OP was insistent on finding some law that would prevent him/her from writing the referral, rather than just telling the colleague to write it himself.

I sure hope OP realizes that every time he/she scribbles a note about a student on a slip of paper, he/she has created a potential 'legal document' that can be used as evidence in court.

Are we reading the same thread? Because I seemed to ADVISE the OP, while you - not so much. OP is insistent on asking questions - applause.

OP DOES realize that everything she writes is a potential legal document, that's why she is here asking. Go back to visitation, you're not really doing much here.

 

[I'mTheFather]

Are we reading the same thread? Because I seemed to ADVISE the OP, while you - not so much. OP is insistent on asking questions - applause.

OP DOES realize that everything she writes is a potential legal document, that's why she is here asking. Go back to visitation, you're not really doing much here.

Aw, that wasn't very nice.

Regardless, I did advise OP. I just don't see the point in making something more difficult that it needs to be.

 

[swagmonkey]

This one seems pretty clear-cut to me. Laws are not relevant to whether you write the discipline referral or not. That's your choice, and you could consult your boss if the other teacher gives you trouble here.

The important thing IF you write it is simply to make sure you make clear in your writing that your information is second hand. If you write "the student did X", you could be legally responsible for defending that claim. If you write "Teacher Y says that the student did [X]" then you are making claims ONLY about what the teacher said. If it were ever to come up as a legal issue, you would not be responsible for knowledge of what the student said, and this would be deferred to the teacher who saw it, and whom you mentioned in your discipline referral.

My personal opinion is that you should just insist the other teacher write his own discipline, for an issue that s/he witnessed him/herself. But, provided you make clear WHO is making the claim of what the student did, you do not create a legal issue for yourself by writing it. You are simply reporting what others' told you, and they are still responsible for the content of their own claims.

 

[Humusluvr]

This one seems pretty clear-cut to me. Laws are not relevant to whether you write the discipline referral or not. That's your choice, and you could consult your boss if the other teacher gives you trouble here.

OP was not asking about laws surrounding document writing. She was asking about the referral as a legal document, since it does become part of a student's records. She does seem to understand that laws are not the issue, but legalities are. I don't understand why so many people are misreading her statement.