Parking ticket at a Largo Florida Walmart

[hobs]

the name of My state? Florida .
I got a parking ticket on 11/11/11 for " Parking in a no parking zone " at a Walmart store . now , I plan on paying unless I am convinced otherwise to fight it. My questions are more out of curiosity so, bear with me.
I Parked up nest to the building on my scooter (like so many others do,) about 15 feet away is the bike rack. I could have parked there if it wasn't blocked . so I parked next to a Pepsi vendor stand ( trailer ) . The bike rack and the vendor stand are all on the same cement slab ( all within the same 30 feet or so. ) So here are my questions. Ready??

1. Walmart is private property right? How can they enforce a parking violation other than Handicap spaces and fire lanes?
2. If i was ticketed, shouldn't have the owner of the vendor stand? ( was i singled out? )
3. How can it be a no parking zone with a bike rack in the same area?
4. there should be markings to indicate it is a no parking zone right?

any thoughts?

 

[asiny]

1. Walmart is private property right? How can they enforce a parking violation other than Handicap spaces and fire lanes?

It's private property. They can do what they want, legally speaking.

2. If i was ticketed, shouldn't have the owner of the vendor stand? ( was i singled out? )

If the vendor was allowed to be there... then no.

3. How can it be a no parking zone with a bike rack in the same area?

15' is not 'the same area'... it's 15' away.

4. there should be markings to indicate it is a no parking zone right?

It's a parking lot with clearly, defined, parking spaces and bike rack. Is there ANY markings or signage that refers to parking in the lot. And no, I don't mean right where you parked.

When all the bikes are in a legal rack and all the cars are in legal spaces- just because you feel the Pepsi (possibly making a delivery too) vendor was parked illegally, means you should be allowed to park illegally too?
Also, how do you know the vendor was not issued a parking ticket too?
Did you witness the vendor from the moment they parked, to the moment they left the property?
How do you know if the vendor never received a warning from the store- where he was possibly making a delivery- that he should not be parking there in the future? Again, this is their property... if they allowed the vendor to park there... they are allowed to.

 

[hobs]

Thanks for responding asiny
OK, I feel the need to clarify. when I said "vendor stand", I mean like a hot dog stand of sorts with the Pepsi logo, not a delivery truck. Yes I understand delivery trucks are allowed to park for loading and unloading. But common sense tells Me this is not the case. Walmart does not own the stand. So I don't see the parking enforcement person giving anyone working at Walmart the ticket to give to the owner. It would have to be posted clearly on the offending vehicle I would think. they used a zip tie in a plastic baggie and attached it to my mirror so they could do the same it seams.

when you say " they can do whatever they want... " do you mean Walmart ? They are not the ones who wrote the ticket. which is why I asked how can the city give me a public citation on private property? and how can one entity be allowed and not another? seems to Me that a " no parking zone" would be a " no parking zone" regardless of who you are.
When I was referring to 15' away as being in the same area I was thinking someone would know what I meant (that it was not ground zero if that's better for you )
and last but not least .. yes the parking spaces are clearly lined. the bike rack is not clearly marked. but that's besides the point . the point is that the " no parking zone" is not posted or marked at all.( If it had, I would not have parked there.)
So, to recap and to clarify my question (maybe), How can the police ( not Walmart ) enforce a public, non moving violation on private property?

I would also like to point out that I do not believe that I got the ticket because someone didn't like me or whatever. I'm sure the enforcer ( police officer , meter maid, and so on ) felt justified and well with in there power. and that's cool. I'm not out to shun the system. ( to put it politely )

 

[justalayman]

was this an official parking ticket issued by a state (or some level of government) authority? What government entity?

If so, was a statute included on the ticket?


Personally I am having a hard time accepting that you could be issued a parking ticket such as you have (that comes with absolutely no research into the laws of the matter). It just seems to be wrong unless, as you suggest, it concerns a legally required no parking zone or limited parking zone such as a fire lane or handicapped parking.

I would enjoy trying to search this a bit if you can answer my questions above.


and just a not of mention of an observation:

your "scooter" may not be legally allowed to park in a bike rack. If it is a motor vehicle, it may be required to be parked in the parking lot just as every other motor vehicle. Again, this is without any research. Merely observation and a general application of laws I have run across in many states.

 

[HomeGuru]

was this an official parking ticket issued by a state (or some level of government) authority? What government entity?

If so, was a statute included on the ticket?


Personally I am having a hard time accepting that you could be issued a parking ticket such as you have (that comes with absolutely no research into the laws of the matter). It just seems to be wrong unless, as you suggest, it concerns a legally required no parking zone or limited parking zone such as a fire lane or handicapped parking.

I would enjoy trying to search this a bit if you can answer my questions above.


and just a not of mention of an observation:

your "scooter" may not be legally allowed to park in a bike rack. If it is a motor vehicle, it may be required to be parked in the parking lot just as every other motor vehicle. Again, this is without any research. Merely observation and a general application of laws I have run across in many states.

**A: I had the same questions/comments.

 

[HighwayMan]

Motorized scooters don't "park" at bicycle racks - that is for bicycles NOT motor vehicles.

You have to follow the same rules that other motor vehicles do. And the "like so many others" line is no legal justification for YOU breaking the law.

And never mind about the hot dog guy. If he gets a break or is ignored for whatever reason that doesn't mean you get a free pass.

 

[hobs]

Hey guys thanks for replying.
I assume that the ticket is real. it has the clerk of court's address on it. ( i checked ) but this is my first ticket in over 10 years,

parking ordinance article 3 section 16d ( stop , stand , or parked in a no parking zone to wit: ) e is for parking in a fire lane so i know that isn't what it's for. I just found and checked out " search /dot/municode /dot/com" and only see parts a and b

"(a)No person shall stop, stand or park a vehicle within an alley in a business district, except for the expeditious loading or unloading of materials, and in no event for a period of more than 20 minutes. No person shall stop, stand or park a vehicle in any other alley in such a manner, or under such conditions, as to leave available less than ten feet of the width of the roadway for the free movement of vehicular traffic.

(b)No person shall stop, stand or park a vehicle within an alley in such position as to block the driveway or entrance to any abutting property."

but i wasn't parked in an alley. and i can't seem to find parts c and d.

However, article V of the enforcement code says ( if I understand it correctly) the police chief can designate certain streets where parking shall be prohibited at all times; and shall erect signs giving notice thereof."

I just checked on the bike rack and scooters. I cant find anything that says you cant . I know where I work we have a rack designed for holding both bikes and scooters. and down state that's a common thing to see.

 

[justalayman]

However, article V of the enforcement code says ( if I understand it correctly) the police chief can designate certain streets where parking shall be prohibited at all times; and shall erect signs giving notice thereof."

a sidewalk adjacent to a private Walmart parking lot is not a street under the control of the police chief but even more to the point: a sidewalk is not a street, even in the areas controlled by the public authorities. There would be a separate ordinance concerning parking on a sidewalk as opposed to parking on the street.


did you notice this section preceding the actual controlling ordinances concerning parking?

Sec. 16-62. Applicability of article regulations.
(a) The provisions of this article prohibiting the stopping, standing or parking of a vehicle shall apply at all
times or at those times specified or as indicated on official signs, except when it is necessary to stop a vehicle to
avoid conflict with other traffic or in compliance with the directions of a police officer or official traffic control
device.

so, is there an actual ordinance cited on the ticket? Some verbiage that would explain the violation? Something? Anything?

 

[hobs]

Motorized scooters don't "park" at bicycle racks - that is for bicycles NOT motor vehicles.

You have to follow the same rules that other motor vehicles do. And the "like so many others" line is no legal justification for YOU breaking the law.

And never mind about the hot dog guy. If he gets a break or is ignored for whatever reason that doesn't mean you get a free pass.

Hey highwayman thanks for replying but do me a favor next time. try taking your Miadol before jumping in the forums OK? thanks.
For one, motorized scooters do park at bike rack's.they sell bike rack's to accommodate both. Please research before ranting and did You even read my post??. I'm not trying to get a free pass I totally plan on paying the fine unless I'm 100% sure i can justify not. Its only a $30 fine and $15 dollars of it goes to the crossing guard fund. You know, the people that make sure the kids get across the street safely? also if the law says it must me posted then yes it is legal justification. your absolutely right. we all have to follow the same rules. even persons acting under color of law. ( aka the police )
well, You have a great day OK buddy?...

 

[hobs]

so, is there an actual ordinance cited on the ticket? Some verbiage that would explain the violation? Something? Anything?

It says
" you have violated city of largo parking ordinance article III- section 16 circled below" ( D is circled ) (d)stop , stand , or parked in no parking zone to-wit:____________ $30

above that is all of the vehicle info. no other info.

 

[justalayman]

It says
" you have violated city of largo parking ordinance article III- section 16 circled below" ( D is circled ) (d)stop , stand , or parked in no parking zone to-wit:____________ $30

above that is all of the vehicle info. no other info.

there is a number missing. Their ordinances are numbered with the article, section, then a - and another number, and then the sub section letter.

it sounds like they are referring to the section concerning penalties:

Sec. 16-70. Fines and penalties for violation of parking prohibitions.
For a violation of parking prohibitions, the following fines shall be imposed as designated:

(d) Parking in a no-parking zone . . . . 30.00

they need to support a claim it is actually illegal to park where you did with an ordinance.

I cannot find much of anything that would disallow parking, even if it was public property, unless there was a sign giving notification.

 

[hobs]

was this an official parking ticket issued by a state (or some level of government) authority? What government entity?

If so, was a statute included on the ticket?


Personally I am having a hard time accepting that you could be issued a parking ticket such as you have (that comes with absolutely no research into the laws of the matter). It just seems to be wrong unless, as you suggest, it concerns a legally required no parking zone or limited parking zone such as a fire lane or handicapped parking.

I would enjoy trying to search this a bit if you can answer my questions above.


and just a not of mention of an observation:

your "scooter" may not be legally allowed to park in a bike rack. If it is a motor vehicle, it may be required to be parked in the parking lot just as every other motor vehicle. Again, this is without any research. Merely observation and a general application of laws I have run across in many states.

It is a ticket from the city of Largo in Florida. Sorry I forgot to answer this question earlier .

 

[HighwayMan]

For one, motorized scooters do park at bike rack's.they sell bike rack's to accommodate both.

That does not make it legal.

 

[justalayman]

It is a ticket from the city of Largo in Florida. Sorry I forgot to answer this question earlier .

Yes, I was referring to their ordinances when I tossed out that information.

http://www.largo.com/egov/docs/824651317747362.pdf

 

[!CuriousGeorge!]

1. Walmart is private property right? How can they enforce a parking violation other than Handicap spaces and fire lanes?

This is a good inquiry for you to pursue. I don't know the answer but it some type of contract to enforce is required & its not present then this is a good defense.
And it would not matter if handicapped, fire lanes, etc ... are involved. Walmart either did grant enforcement rights or the police don't need permission from Walmart or Walmart never gave permission that was needed .. these are the three possibilities as far as an answer to your first ? is. Search out the answers in your state statues. Maybe someone else has more detailed information and will post but its your ticket, I suggest you search.