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Can I get police report before court day ?

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usps

Junior Member
What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California


I was arrested for DUI recently and the police will not let me the see police report made. They said it won't be available until after the court date.

Is there any way to get them to let me have a copy of the police report made? It doesn't seem right that I have no idea what they're saying about me until the day of court.

A lawyer I talked to recently said he could obtian a copy of the report. Why can a lawyer get the report and I cannot ? :confused:

I would like to know what they're saying about me so I can be prepared for court.
 


Isis1

Senior Member
Because the lawyer knows how to request discovery. That's why. Look up California legal self help. There is a site that tells you how to proceed with court procedures and request should you be so inclined to take this past arraignment.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I was arrested for DUI recently and the police will not let me the see police report made. They said it won't be available until after the court date.
Your attorney can obtain the report through discovery. He will almost certainly be provided this document and all related reports on the date of your arraignment.

If the police will not provide you with a copy, you can always ask the DA. Chances are they will say "no" as well, and they will also defer to the arraignment date and to your attorney.

Is there any way to get them to let me have a copy of the police report made? It doesn't seem right that I have no idea what they're saying about me until the day of court.
You can ASK them, but you can't MAKE them give it up.

A lawyer I talked to recently said he could obtian a copy of the report. Why can a lawyer get the report and I cannot ? :confused:
If he is YOUR lawyer, he can get it via discover. Even before court.

I would like to know what they're saying about me so I can be prepared for court.
The first hearing is the arraignment. It's a rather simple affair. They will read you the charges, ask you for a plea, and then discuss counsel if you need it. Not much to prepare for there unless you wish to plead guilty.
 
The OP can get a copy of the report through discovery if its a pro se representation.

The OP just needs to file a request for documents with the DA...not with the police.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
The OP can get a copy of the report through discovery if its a pro se representation.

The OP just needs to file a request for documents with the DA...not with the police.
Usually done at the arraignment.

Pro se representation is very rare. And I doubt he intends to represent himself ... unless he wants to go to jail.
 

usps

Junior Member
Not much to prepare for there unless you wish to plead guilty.

If I intend to plead guilty, is it worth getting an attorny ?

I wasn't planning on contesting the matter; I was just going to plead guilty. I was thinking an attorny may help me explain the circumstances to the prosecutor, with respect to my other thread in the DUI forum: https://forum.freeadvice.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2947537

Just out of curiousity. If I do get jail time how much do you think it would be.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
If I intend to plead guilty, is it worth getting an attorny ?
To avoid getting hit with a max. penalty, it may well be worth it, yes.

Just out of curiousity. If I do get jail time how much do you think it would be.
It COULD be up to 6 months. In reality, it'll likely be a couple of days. Maybe weekends. Probation, fines, and maybe a license suspension as well.
 
Those are being phased out in CA. The DOJ no longer issues them out.
Given that this instrument has had issues that were known and ignored, it is possible that the instrument used in the OPs case may be similar; it's certainly something the OP should at least be aware of:

10 News Investigators: Charges that FDLE covered up faulty DUI machines | wtsp.com

I personally, have grave concerns of police officers using instruments and ther state basing their prosecution on such devices. In general, police officers just do not have the academic and ethical training needed to use scientific instruments. I always take any measurement an officer takes as one which it is highly probable that an error was performed that the officer is not even aware of. The lack of enough ethical training is highlighted in the article linked; hundreds of officers knew of the issues with the instrument but kept on using it until one officer out of hundreds (or thousands) finally got it right on the proper course of action. Even lawyers and administrators could not get it right due to their lack of ethical understanding regarding scientific measurements.

I would prefer going back to blood testing that is more likely to be performed by a chemist or other scientist that has a background needed for such measurements.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Given that this instrument has had issues that were known and ignored, it is possible that the instrument used in the OPs case may be similar; it's certainly something the OP should at least be aware of:

10 News Investigators: Charges that FDLE covered up faulty DUI machines | wtsp.com
That was an issue in Florida, not California, and it had to do with calibrations and not the devices. Calibration will always be an issue no matter the device. If not maintained and calibrated, then of course there can be problems.

Also, the state never issued the 8000 and I have never seen one in use here. Out here the DOJ had issued the Intox 5000, but never the 8000 to my knowledge. Currently they issue the Drager EPAS.

I personally, have grave concerns of police officers using instruments and ther state basing their prosecution on such devices. In general, police officers just do not have the academic and ethical training needed to use scientific instruments.
They do not need to know the science behind the device. If they use it as trained, there is not a problem.

I do not know all the science behind why alcohol or drugs effect people the way they do, but I do not need to have that specific knowledge only the ability to identify the objective symptoms of being under the influence.

I always take any measurement an officer takes as one which it is highly probable that an error was performed that the officer is not even aware of.
That's great. It has no legal bearing, but you can believe as you wish.

Of course, the OFFICER is not taking the measurement of BAC, the machine is.

The lack of enough ethical training is highlighted in the article linked; hundreds of officers knew of the issues with the instrument but kept on using it until one officer out of hundreds (or thousands) finally got it right on the proper course of action. Even lawyers and administrators could not get it right due to their lack of ethical understanding regarding scientific measurements.
What is "ethical understanding regarding scientific measurements?" What does ethics have to do with using machines?

There could be an ethical lapse if people knew the machines were in error and still utilized them, but if you look further into the story you will find that officers using them had been assured that they were fine by the FDLE (this story is not new). The officers can only rely on what they are told by the people whose job it is to maintain them.

Many machines are now designed to cease functioning after a set number of tests or after a certain time period if they are not maintained or calibrated. In CA the Drager EPAS must receive an accuracy test after 200 tests or 10 days. The DOJ expects us to run the calibration each day and send the results electronically to the DOJ each week (they get the fulls states of the machine via FTP). How counties do it that issue their own machines, I couldn't say. But, no counties I know of have issued out the 8000. Though, the problem was not the device, it was the FDLE not maintaining them properly.

I would prefer going back to blood testing that is more likely to be performed by a chemist or other scientist that has a background needed for such measurements.
And, if arrested, you have that option.
 
We train monkeys, not people. And training in the use of an instrument means nothing if one does not have the scientific background in assessing measurements .. One could train a monkey to operate an instrument, does that mean he has the prerequisite knowledge required to get valid data off of such instruments? No. The vast majority of officers have only a HS diploma; they have no idea of Netwon's rules or the ethical requirements in measurement taking.

I have not seen an officer even understand the scientific principles behind all of the instruments that they do us & if they don't understand even the basic concepts of the instrument then how can they even evaluate the results?

They are just given equipment & are shown how to get some type of value measurement out of it and told to go catch some bad guys & make some cash. And off they go.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
We train monkeys, not people.
Only in a lab.

And training in the use of an instrument means nothing if one does not have the scientific background in assessing measurements .
How do you figure?

The nurse who draws blood does not have to know how to conduct the tests to assess the contents of the blood. Frankly, the DOCTOR likely does not know how to separate the blood and how to conduct the tests to assess the blood. The nurse takes the blood and the doctor interprets the results. The engineer that made the machine, and the technician that operates them are responsible for the machine working properly.

One could train a monkey to operate an instrument, does that mean he has the prerequisite knowledge required to get valid data off of such instruments?
Maybe. But, we don't train monkeys to tell people to blow into a tube - we train people to do that.

There is no legal requirement in any state I an aware of that requires to testify to more than the basic concepts behind the breath machine they operate.

The vast majority of officers have only a HS diploma; they have no idea of Netwon's rules or the ethical requirements in measurement taking.
I suppose you mean "Newton." Well, I have a college degree - a couple of them - and I don't know what you mean by "Newton's rules." I am also confused as to what you mean by the term, "ethical requirements in measurement taking."

Once again, knowledge of science is NOT a legal requirement to operate the machines. One does not have to be a scientist to operate a machine.

I have not seen an officer even understand the scientific principles behind all of the instruments that they do us & if they don't understand even the basic concepts of the instrument then how can they even evaluate the results?
The officer is not required to now anything more than the most basic concept of how the machine functions. Plus, as I mentioned the officer is not evaluating the results. he is sing the reading provided by the device. He evaluates nothing. Nada. Zip. He takes the reading and acts accordingly under the law in his state. If at or above the per se limit, then the charge will be a per se violation. if under, then the violation may be a general impairment section, another offense, or maybe a dropping of the charges and release of the suspect. That's a different process but based upon the reading.

They are just given equipment & are shown how to get some type of value measurement out of it and told to go catch some bad guys & make some cash. And off they go.
<sigh> They don't make any cash off the deal. Sorry you seem to feel that DUI drivers are some sort of oppressed class of people, but they aren't. You make a decision to drive impaired, you put all of us at risk. You get caught, you suffer the consequences.

We give all manner of people machines and devices to use and teach them how to use them even if they do not fully know how the results are obtained. Check in any hospital and you will find many nurses, clinicians, technicians, and doctors that take tests and utilize devices without being able to tell you with any detail how the machine gets the results they do only that the result indicates X, Y and/or Z.

I don;t know where you get the idea that an officer also has to be a trained criminologist and expert in the theory behind the breath machine. It certainly has no legal foundation. If it is something you'd like to see, then lobby your legislature to identify funding necessary to train every officer in your state as a criminologist with expertise in BAC breath machines. Good luck with that.
 

Banned_Princess

Senior Member
I am not sure how the thermometer gets temperature, but I know how to decide if someone has a fever.


I am not sure how blood pressure is measured using a blood pressure devise, but I can read the results.

I am not sure how a computer works, but yet, I seem to have its use under control. :rolleyes:
 
I am not sure how the thermometer gets temperature, but I know how to decide if someone has a fever.


I am not sure how blood pressure is measured using a blood pressure devise, but I can read the results.

I am not sure how a computer works, but yet, I seem to have its use under control. :rolleyes:
are you qualified to testify about the results obtained? No. And when you go to the ER and you tell your BP & Temp...they don't need to re-test you I assume.
 

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