Can I get police report before court day ?

[HighwayMan]

We train monkeys, not people.

Based on your name and your posts I am starting to think that YOU are the trained monkey.

 

[CdwJava]

are you qualified to testify about the results obtained? No. And when you go to the ER and you tell your BP & Temp...they don't need to re-test you I assume.

If that's the requirement, then, yes, the officer is qualified to testify as to the results obtained on a BAC test. He or she is not required to testify as to the mechanics of the operation of the machine or how alcohol interacts with the blood.

So, by this inference, it would appear that you might then agree that an officer is legally qualified to testify as to the results of the BAC since ... well ... the law lets him do so!

 

[!CuriousGeorge!]

If that's the requirement, then, yes, the officer is qualified to testify as to the results obtained on a BAC test. He or she is not required to testify as to the mechanics of the operation of the machine or how alcohol interacts with the blood.

So, by this inference, it would appear that you might then agree that an officer is legally qualified to testify as to the results of the BAC since ... well ... the law lets him do so!

See? Convoluted reasoning. You have been trained well.

 

[CdwJava]

See? Convoluted reasoning. You have been trained well.

Convoluted? Okaaaay ...

Well, since the law allows an officer to operate a BAC machine and testify to the results if he has been trained in its operation, the law is on my side here and NOT with your reasoning that he has to be a trained forensic expert.

 

[!CuriousGeorge!]

Convoluted? Okaaaay ...

Well, since the law allows an officer to operate a BAC machine and testify to the results if he has been trained in its operation, the law is on my side here and NOT with your reasoning that he has to be a trained forensic expert.

I never said the LAW does not allow it; I just pointed out the lack of ability or skills of officers which have been exampled in the BAC equipment use in Fl. They are both facts and not subject to discussion. You just wish to assume that because the legal LAW allows such activities then those activities must be scientifically valid. An incorrect assessment.

Officers simply are not disciplined enough or knowledgeable enough to use such equipment, whether the law allows it or not. Why the law allows high school graduates to introduce evidence of equipment measurements that are beyond their comprehension is astounding.

Its not the officers' "fault" -- they just do what they are told evidently.

 

[CdwJava]

The FL case had to do NOT with officers, but with CRIMINOLOGISTS AND ADMINISTRATION AT THE FDLE. The mistake was at the maintenance and calibration level which was NOT the responsibility of the officers. So, you are blaming the officers for something they had no part in. They operated the machine as instructed and were assured by the people responsible for the machines were functioning properly (you know, those well-trained criminalist guys that understand how the machines work).

We all use equipment that function in a way that we are not trained to understand. To expect an officer to become a full-fledged criminalist would be so prohibitively expensive as to be ridiculous.

We do not hold that standard with any other profession, so why would you hold it to law enforcement? Does an engineer who uses a laser measuring device have to become an engineer in the function of light refraction devices in order to read the digital readout? Does the doctor have to become an expert in the process of blood/plasma separation in order to interpret the results? Do I have to understand how a digital thermometer works before I can determine that my son's temperature is 100 degrees based upon the reading?

One needs to be trained in the use of the equipment, not knowledgeable in the science between the hidden processes of the machine. The level of knowledge you would hold police to is far greater than that required for any other profession using more complicated devices making far more important decisions based upon the readings of the devices. I suspect your bias is against police or against DUI. Either way, we can all be thankful that your thought on this matter has no foundation in the law and lacks sufficient common sense to ever gain any foothold in the legislative arena.

So, do you have anything to add that might actually be relevant to the OP's query?

 

[HighwayMan]

Carl, you'll get as far arguing with this one as you do with Dillon.

 

[usps]

I just obtained a note from the Dr who adjusted my Antabuse medication 2 1/2 weeks prior to my DUI charge. I'm hoping the court will take into consideration that before the DUI charge I already realized I'm not a responsible drinker and was trying to do something about it. Any chance the judge will have mercy on me for this ?

 

[!CuriousGeorge!]

I just obtained a note from the Dr who adjusted my Antabuse medication 2 1/2 weeks prior to my DUI charge. I'm hoping the court will take into consideration that before the DUI charge I already realized I'm not a responsible drinker and was trying to do something about it. Any chance the judge will have mercy on me for this ?

An excuse for the judge? He has heard them all before .. unless its his first day on the bench... what mercy do you want, the judge won't order your execution.

 

[!CuriousGeorge!]

Does an engineer who uses a laser measuring device have to become an engineer in the function of light refraction devices in order to read the digital readout?

Well, yes....to testify in court or use it to produce evidence then YES, he does need to understand the device & have training in the scientific method.

Its not just "here, blow into this" or "look, I pointed and pressed this trigger" .. I was shown how to do it.

 

[HighwayMan]

Its not just "here, blow into this" or "look, I pointed and pressed this trigger" .. I was shown how to do it.

That's exactly what it is. That's how the system works.

 

[usps]

An excuse for the judge?

That isn't what I said at all.


I am asking if it is likely that the judge would take into consideration that before my DUI charge I had already realized I am not a responsible drinker, and go lighter on my sentence. I already know well that this incident was my own fault; I'm not trying to give excuses.

 

[CdwJava]

I just obtained a note from the Dr who adjusted my Antabuse medication 2 1/2 weeks prior to my DUI charge. I'm hoping the court will take into consideration that before the DUI charge I already realized I'm not a responsible drinker and was trying to do something about it. Any chance the judge will have mercy on me for this ?

But, antabuse or not, you should not have been drinking. I doubt that you will get much headway relying on a defense that claims that the antabuse should have prevented you from drinking too much.

You really need the assistance of defense counsel.

The judge's sentencing would be limited. Since jail time is unlikely, and a first offense generally has a prescribed sentence, it would not likely have any real impact. If there is a potential for mitigation, your attorney might know how to best apply it.

 

[CdwJava]

Well, yes....to testify in court or use it to produce evidence then YES, he does need to understand the device & have training in the scientific method.

Why? What does the officer do that would require such in-depth knowledge? He does not interpret the readings, conduct maintenance on the device, or do anything that requires anything more than ...

Its not just "here, blow into this" or "look, I pointed and pressed this trigger" .. I was shown how to do it.

Which is pretty much all that is legally required.

Yes, we are also trained in a very brief overview of how the device works, but the officer will not be expected to offer testimony in court as to the details of the mechanics or the science.

As I said, if you want to change the law and require all officers to be trained criminologists, speak to your state legislature. Since legislation has to be cost neutral in my state, you would also have to figure out how to pay for the tremendous addition of hours in the academy and then for the many thousands of officers that are in the field ... plus backfill on overtime. Do you have any concept of the expense that would entail? And all so that you would be happy with an officer pushing a button and saying, "Blow until I tell you to stop..."

 

[!CuriousGeorge!]

He does not interpret the readings, "

So if his boss gives him a number generator that guarantees a limit beyond the lawful limit & he is told that "don't worry, its accurate" and he issues 10,000 tickets in a day then he does not need to examine the premise that the instrument is accurate?

Its the blind leading the blind. My favorite question for a cop: how do you know that the trainer who trained you was qualified to train you? They all look like deer caught in headlights...whaaat?