Full Legal Custody

[breezymom]

Also, we are in the process of communicating, tonight. He asked about the head banging. I told him as said in court, it was approximately a year ago, the day she came back from one of her first over night visits.

He asked about the night terrors. I told him they are normal for her age, however, it was that she was having them too frequently. He asked why, since they are so common, it was brought up in court. I told him because of their frequency. I replied with copying and pasting my reply about frequency. He asked how long they lasted. I told him it sometimes took about an hour to get her calmed down.

Now is when the conversation is beginning to deviate. I am happy that there is progress because it usually deviates long before now, but this is the following, directly quoted:

*Dad*
I sure looking very forward meeting my daughters counselor she has been attending for two years with you.
will be calling for meeting.....asap

*Mom*
I am sorry that you missed it, when it was clarified in court that the counselor is mine and we are working on how I can be a successful party in coparenting. In fact, she is the same counselor I was seeing when we were together.

Any suggestions/insight/opinions?

 

[breezymom]

Yes. As you are starting to realize, your goal is unrealistic in that you can not control it nor guarantee that it will happen.

I actually realised it long ago, however, fear has played a huge factor, given our history. But that is why I came here and elsewhere to educate myself. I don't want fear (and neither do the concerned parties in the case, minus Dad) to possibly put her at greater safety risk, whatever that may/might have mean/meant.

A more realistic goal would be for you to have solid, enforceable court orders that allow ex the OPPORTUNITY to participate in the child's life, but you can't make him.

I know, and I struggle, still with it. I don't want to hurt her with not having a relationship with her father (I encouraged it, actually, even in the time period between leaving with submitting the petition and the custody hearing). I also want her to feel safe and part of that is consistency. So, I have finally accepted that I can provide what consistency I can at home and since the time split is minimal, she will have that consistency most of the time and hopefully, it will help her. It may even help her in the instance that she may, for example, at least be getting tired and hint at taking a nap at a similar time while at Dad's. I know that one of mine and dad's major parenting differences is that schedule-wise, I am pretty consistent, allowing flexibility if a situation arises that needs it, while he is far less structured. *Added in* I am kind of fearful to submit a request to the court about that, not wanting the judge to get upset for filing yet another petition. So, I figure to wait a bit and see if communication improves, first, and go from there. Most likely, we will need that, but I want to do it at a better time.

Safety is a problem. It is certainly reasonable to hope for the child's safety to always be the top concern, but courts have multiple agendas that need to be balanced. The court can't simply say "we will not allow anything to happen which might create a risk to a child". If they said that, then they could take away a parent's right to have a relationship with the child (and vice versa) if there's a 0.000000001% chance of harm. Considering that removing the child's parent would in and of itself cause harm, that isn't reasonable. The court has to balance risks and benefits, so "zero risk of harm to the child" isn't going to happen (heck, even if the child never left your sight, you can't guarantee zero risk). So all you can do is present the information that the court needs to make a decision and hopefully convince the court that the risks are great enough to take precautions. But there are no guarantees.

I completely understand this and it's not that settling, but I know I have to accept it and just hope that nothing happens. I know, too, that she is not 100% safe anywhere. It was VERY difficult for me to cut that cord and even let her stay over night at my parents once in a great while. It was even more difficult when, a week after giving birth, Dad told me I needed to drop the child off for the day at my parents so that his eldest daughter would have both of our full attention. I worry about her, sometimes, but now not more than the average parent, when she is not in my care (aside from the visits at Dad's, of course), but I know that that is parenthood.

Thanks, misto, for replying. I actually numerous times had begun to send you a PM before I went to court, asking for your personal advice on ways to keep from getting emotional in court so that I wouldn't possibly make a huge mistake, but I did it just fine and I was actually rather afraid to send the message of what the response would be, so I never did send one.

 

[Nevergrowup]

Breezymom, is that holiday proposal just for this year, or every year? I wouldn't agree to every Christmas Eve/Morning, you should rotate. And as far as next year, once you have a set holiday plan, that trumps normal visitation, so it wouldn't matter if they fell on his normal day.

Personally, I think you are communicating too much. Maybe your lawyer could suggest to the judge that you communicate once a week, "saving up" the things to discuss, unless it is an emergency. That would save you from being constantly approached and you could prepare yourself better. It would also stop you from having to answer every little question he has.

 

[breezymom]

He is also hurt, now, he says, that he was never notified by me that I was seeing my counselor to widen my knowledge on parenting strategies and coparenting strategies. He told me HIS bond comes *naturally* with his two children.

My reply was: I am sorry you feel hurt. I am not perfect, either, and I realize this, which is why I don't see anything wrong with seeking resources on how to keep bettering my parenting skills. I apologize for not informing you of this.

Now, my question is, however, was it wrong that I did not tell him that I was attending counseling for this? I did explain to him that part of that was seeing interaction between parent and child, so yes, our child has gone with me sometimes for that purpose. I am guessing it possibly was, because of the latter part?

 

[breezymom]

Breezymom, is that holiday proposal just for this year, or every year? I wouldn't agree to every Christmas Eve/Morning, you should rotate. And as far as next year, once you have a set holiday plan, that trumps normal visitation, so it wouldn't matter if they fell on his normal day.

Personally, I think you are communicating too much. Maybe your lawyer could suggest to the judge that you communicate once a week, "saving up" the things to discuss, unless it is an emergency. That would save you from being constantly approached and you could prepare yourself better. It would also stop you from having to answer every little question he has.

It is just for this year. My only real concern is that she is 2 and toddlers abhor drastic schedule changes (yes, I realise the holiday, itself is one), but is that too much back and forth in such a small amount of time:

20 hours at Dad's for holiday
21 hours at Mom's in between, with approximately 13 of them asleep.
29 hours at Dad's for visitation, then back to Mom's

 

[Nevergrowup]

He is also hurt, now, he says, that he was never notified by me that I was seeing my counselor to widen my knowledge on parenting strategies and coparenting strategies. He told me HIS bond comes *naturally* with his two children.

My reply was: I am sorry you feel hurt. I am not perfect, either, and I realize this, which is why I don't see anything wrong with seeking resources on how to keep bettering my parenting skills. I apologize for not informing you of this.

Now, my question is, however, was it wrong that I did not tell him that I was attending counseling for this? I did explain to him that part of that was seeing interaction between parent and child, so yes, our child has gone with me sometimes for that purpose. I am guessing it possibly was, because of the latter part?

IMO you weren't wrong, and you were under no obligation to answer any questions from him about your own therapy. I think you are talking to him too much.

I made the mistake of being "too nice" too. While my situation is nowhere near your scary one, it bit me in the behind...I was a "doormat" and considered stupid and dispensible (by his wife, anyway, and he went along with it). You need to keep it more business like. Who cares if he is "hurt" over it, he is clearly nuts. Why respond?

 

[Nevergrowup]

It is just for this year. My only real concern is that she is 2 and toddlers abhor drastic schedule changes (yes, I realise the holiday, itself is one), but is that too much back and forth in such a small amount of time:

20 hours at Dad's for holiday
21 hours at Mom's in between, with approximately 13 of them asleep.
29 hours at Dad's for visitation, then back to Mom's

You definitely need to address the holiday schedule, because he will demand the same thing next year, especially since it falls on his normal days. I don't advocate fighting over holidays, but that doesn't mean you should just give him every Christmas Eve/Morning either.

Holidays are busy and crazy anyway, but if you are that concerned, try suggesting you keep her Christmas Eve until bedtime, and then he keep her Christmas day and beyond.

 

[breezymom]

Breezymom, is that holiday proposal just for this year, or every year? I wouldn't agree to every Christmas Eve/Morning, you should rotate. And as far as next year, once you have a set holiday plan, that trumps normal visitation, so it wouldn't matter if they fell on his normal day.

Personally, I think you are communicating too much. Maybe your lawyer could suggest to the judge that you communicate once a week, "saving up" the things to discuss, unless it is an emergency. That would save you from being constantly approached and you could prepare yourself better. It would also stop you from having to answer every little question he has.

The counselor sent a letter to the court explaining, basically, that I was using as many resources as I could, including her, in order to not only be the most effective parent, but also to try to learn how to coparent effectively. So, it was brought up in the hearing.

Now we have the following:

*Dad*
Like you always said your mom wanted you to be perfect (my interjection, here: I never told him this. This is one of his false memories)...always let *Child* be a kid..I will always remember one night when you told me you had never been to a fairon our way to the *Place* Fair.

*Mom*
I am sorry you feel that I am not allowing our daughter to be a child. Could you please explain why you think that, so we can work that out?

Does my reply *seem* to folks as a fair/like it *should* be productive one, not addressing the irrelevant, acknowledging his feelings, and asking for clarification?

 

[Nevergrowup]

The counselor sent a letter to the court explaining, basically, that I was using as many resources as I could, including her, in order to not only be the most effective parent, but also to try to learn how to coparent effectively. So, it was brought up in the hearing.

Now we have the following:

*Dad*
Like you always said your mom wanted you to be perfect (my interjection, here: I never told him this. This is one of his false memories)...always let *Child* be a kid..I will always remember one night when you told me you had never been to a fairon our way to the *Place* Fair.

*Mom*
I am sorry you feel that I am not allowing our daughter to be a child. Could you please explain why you think that, so we can work that out?

Does my reply *seem* to folks as a fair/like it *should* be productive one, not addressing the irrelevant, acknowledging his feelings, and asking for clarification?

WHY are you replying to that drivel? You can't be reasonable with him and have it work. You can't win over crazy, crazy will always think its right. You need to come to terms with that. I get why you are trying to be the reasonable one, but you are torturing yourself in the process, questioning your responses on every little thing...who cares what he says? Parent on your time, he parents on his. Don't respond to his stupid crap. It will just make you crazy too...for gosh sakes, your chiild is only 2. You have many more years of this, do you really want to pander to every question that comes into his pea sized brain for the next 16 years?

 

[breezymom]

WHY are you replying to that drivel? You can't be reasonable with him and have it work. You can't win over crazy, crazy will always think its right. You need to come to terms with that. I get why you are trying to be the reasonable one, but you are torturing yourself in the process, questioning your responses on every little thing...who cares what he says? Parent on your time, he parents on his. Don't respond to his stupid crap. It will just make you crazy too...for gosh sakes, your chiild is only 2. You have many more years of this, do you really want to pander to every question that comes into his pea sized brain for the next 16 years?

We *have* to communicate, however. Don't get me wrong...I *totally* understand and that is another reason why I came here: I *was* overly-frustrated (and will be many more times) with the communication issues.

I am new at this, however, still, and I really want it known that I am making so many attempts to make things fair and that my concern is of our child's best interests, not my own. I want it known that I can be an adult about things and, in family court, you do have to prove that. If further problems occur or something bigger happens where she isn't safe, I want it known that I have been doing everything possible to ensure her safety and encourage a relationship between her and her father, regardless of what games he attempts to play with me.

I don't like being the difficult one and don't think it is in her best interests for me to be. But that's the frustrating part. I have to figure out where that line is where the court would see that I really am making an honest attempt, not necessarily where he starts making me feel uncomfortable. I am learning to detach myself from these random statements so that I *can* respond in our child's best interest. That is a really, very difficult line to learn.

 

[Nevergrowup]

We *have* to communicate, however. Don't get me wrong...I *totally* understand and that is another reason why I came here: I *was* overly-frustrated (and will be many more times) with the communication issues.

I am new at this, however, still, and I really want it known that I am making so many attempts to make things fair and that my concern is of our child's best interests, not my own. I want it known that I can be an adult about things and, in family court, you do have to prove that. If further problems occur or something bigger happens where she isn't safe, I want it known that I have been doing everything possible to ensure her safety and encourage a relationship between her and her father, regardless of what games he attempts to play with me.

I don't like being the difficult one and don't think it is in her best interests for me to be. But that's the frustrating part. I have to figure out where that line is where the court would see that I really am making an honest attempt, not necessarily where he starts making me feel uncomfortable. I am learning to detach myself from these random statements so that I *can* respond in our child's best interest. That is a really, very difficult line to learn.

I think you are giving him permission by responding. I really think you should speak to your lawyer about doing some type of weekly (or better, biweekly) communication, limiting how much he can harrass you. You don't HAVE to communicate if it means answering stupid questions that are basically philosophical in nature. You are feeding the lion by responding.

Like I said, you can be as reasonable as you want, and he will NEVER EVER stop. Try to get the communication more regulated and buy yourself some peace.

I actually don't understand why Dad gets to communicate with YOUR therapist at all, it isn't the child's therapist. It really isn't any of his business, but if the judge allowed it, I guess that is that.

I understand that you are relatively "new" at this, but with an ex like yours, it isn't going to get easier unless you start taking it easier on yourself. You've put so much burden on your shoulders to try to show the world that he is the crazy one. Why not sit back and let him show that himself? Answer questions that are DIRECTLY about the child's welfare and avoid philosophical discussions and other ridiculous things. Otherwise, ignore it. If you keep it up, you might appear to be encouraging his behavior by responding.

 

[breezymom]

Answer questions that are DIRECTLY about the child's welfare and avoid philosophical discussions and other ridiculous things. Otherwise, ignore it. If you keep it up, you might appear to be encouraging his behavior by responding.

I actually was doing that for the past year, however the CPS caseworker said we do not communicate and that is the only issue she sees.

Honestly, I think people now probably understand why we have something in our order about communication being about the child and why the exchange venue no longer allows the notebook to go back and forth. I was using it for exchanging information such as her normal schedule (only for his information, not saying he had to follow it, but she also was under a year old at the time, so common sense would say feedings probably should be around the same time, etc.), updates from doctors' visits, and things of the like. He was using it for communicating about why the person he solicited the rumor mill from at my workplace (then repeatedly phoned our work trying to get her fired for giving him "confidential information) told him the information he solicited.

It's so frustrating. I really feel sorry for our daughter. I really want some sort of normal communication going on, though pattern says it won't. That isn't healthy for our daughter.

 

[gam]

I actually was doing that for the past year, however the CPS caseworker said we do not communicate and that is the only issue she sees.

Honestly, I think people now probably understand why we have something in our order about communication being about the child and why the exchange venue no longer allows the notebook to go back and forth. I was using it for exchanging information such as her normal schedule (only for his information, not saying he had to follow it, but she also was under a year old at the time, so common sense would say feedings probably should be around the same time, etc.), updates from doctors' visits, and things of the like. He was using it for communicating about why the person he solicited the rumor mill from at my workplace (then repeatedly phoned our work trying to get her fired for giving him "confidential information) told him the information he solicited.

It's so frustrating. I really feel sorry for our daughter. I really want some sort of normal communication going on, though pattern says it won't. That isn't healthy for our daughter.

How do you know it's not healthy for your daughter? Believe it or not, not every kid grows up in a lovey, dovey, 2 parent household, that includes kids in intact households.

Reality is your child has 2 parents that don't communicate. Sure it is better for every kid to have 2 wonderful parents that communicate and co-parent. But kids that don't can still grow up to be healthy adults. I happen to be one of those kids, well I was, I'm 50 now. My parents were divorced, no communication, no coparenting between them, none at all. My one parent was hit and miss with their time. I'm fine, healthy, actually have worked for 30 years in the mental health field mostly.

I've been married for 29 years, and I have both my parents, the good one and the bad one to thank for that. The good one taught me what to focus on, the bad taught me what not to focus on.

I have numerous family members in split situations, 2 of them are my own daughters and my own grandkids. All healthy even the ones with no communication, no coparenting. Even my Nieces kids and she was in a DV situation, still is, as he still abuses even though they have been divorced for 8 years.

Healthy can happen when one worries about their parenting, not the other parents parenting. All the time and energy devoted to the other parents parenting, no time left to spend on your own parenting. All that time trying to make the other parent a fantastic parent. It's fantasy land, your selling a kid something that may never happen. That's what gets unhealthy children.

 

[mistoffolees]

It is just for this year. My only real concern is that she is 2 and toddlers abhor drastic schedule changes (yes, I realise the holiday, itself is one), but is that too much back and forth in such a small amount of time:

20 hours at Dad's for holiday
21 hours at Mom's in between, with approximately 13 of them asleep.
29 hours at Dad's for visitation, then back to Mom's

Frankly, I think this is crazy.

What you need to realize is that for kids, December 25 is just another day. It's CHRISTMAS that matters. And it's not hard to have Christmas on any day you wish. Even when married to my ex, we never celebrated Christmas on Dec 25 since we were always at Mother-in-Law's house. So Santa came to our house a few days early each year (typically the Saturday or Sunday before Christmas).

I would simplify it to say:
Christmas holiday is from noon Christmas Eve to noon the day after Christmas. Dad gets even years, Mom gets odd years (or switch it if it's more convenient).

As for how it matches up with regular visitation, trying to get that into a court agreement is going to simply drive you crazy. There are some times when it just requires adults to ACT like adults rather than spoiled children. Using the above example, let's say that Dad has Christmas this year which ends at noon on the 26th. And let's say that Dad's normal visitation starts at 6 pm on the 26th. A reasonable person would simply let Dad have the 6 extra hours in between without fighting over it. And trying to sort this out in a court order is likely to be extremely difficult. You really need to be adults.

Have you ever seen two dogs fighting over a bone? Even if one has a larger bone, he'll drop it to try to take the smaller bone from the other dog. That's what you two are doing.

In the example above, it really doesn't take much to say "the kids will be settled in with Dad and having a good time visiting relatives, so there's no point in disrupting that by insisting on my 6 hours - a good part of which will be spent in the car".

 

[AlmostThere]

I actually was doing that for the past year, however the CPS caseworker said we do not communicate and that is the only issue she sees.

Honestly, I think people now probably understand why we have something in our order about communication being about the child and why the exchange venue no longer allows the notebook to go back and forth. I was using it for exchanging information such as her normal schedule (only for his information, not saying he had to follow it, but she also was under a year old at the time, so common sense would say feedings probably should be around the same time, etc.), updates from doctors' visits, and things of the like. He was using it for communicating about why the person he solicited the rumor mill from at my workplace (then repeatedly phoned our work trying to get her fired for giving him "confidential information) told him the information he solicited.

It's so frustrating. I really feel sorry for our daughter. I really want some sort of normal communication going on, though pattern says it won't. That isn't healthy for our daughter.

Asking that you communicate is relative to the children, not to other aspects of your lives. What if your ex asked for details of your sex life? Or wanted to discuss how you clean your house, or how he goes grocery shopping, or what movie he saw?

That has NOTHING to do with communicating about your children. If I were in your place, I'd respond back with "I am very happy to answer any question or discuss issues that directly relate to the children". I may be wrong, but I can't imagine any judge ordering you to you to carry on conversations with your ex-husband for the sake of the children that have NOTHING to do with them.

Seniors, is there a way for OP to verify with CPS or the court the intention of their desire for her to communicate with her ex?