ex refuses to sign custody order

[CSO286]

Thank you for your reply,
Sorry I did post the two posts right after eachother and did not recive your first reply until later.
Our main concern is that the father still has not got primary custody and is paying childsupport even though the son is living with us.
The father has told his laywer today that if the other party has not responded to the parental plan we sent them 3 month ago by tomorrow we will file for modification at the court.
Regarding the issue with the arrears it is not as simple as it seems. Even the child support enforcment agancy has a different number of arrears than either the mother or father ( lower than both but the mother refuses to accept this number and will not sign parental plan until the father accepts her number).

As he must do, since that is what he is court ordered to do.

Ok, everyone together: What can change a court order?

Only a new court court can change the order in effect.

Until a new order is issued, the parties must abide by the terms in the existing order.

Stepmom, did you read the sticky at the top of this forum?

 

[Ohiogal]

In addition, since it's only been 4 months, you don't have status quo yet. Which means if you go to court to change custody, they could end up ordering the child back to mom's. Dad would want to wait until the child has been with him for 6 months to minimize the chances of that happening.

WRONG. Where did this magical 6 month number come from that people believe determines STATUS QUO? At this point dad does have status quo. The status quo of FOUR MONTHS of what came before. Status quo doesn't begin to exist at 6 months. The longer the status quo the better. BUT that doesn't mean he can't do anything until six months or until the six month mark the judge will send junior back to mom if mom argues for it.

 

[mistoffolees]

WRONG. Where did this magical 6 month number come from that people believe determines STATUS QUO? At this point dad does have status quo. The status quo of FOUR MONTHS of what came before. Status quo doesn't begin to exist at 6 months. The longer the status quo the better. BUT that doesn't mean he can't do anything until six months or until the six month mark the judge will send junior back to mom if mom argues for it.

You beat me to it.

In Dad's favor:
- Mom kicked the child out and let the child come live with Dad.
- Child has been with Dad for 4 months without objection from Mom
- Child is 12 years old - not old enough to make a decision, but old enough that the judge would probably listen to him
- Child is doing better in school and not getting into trouble

Now, if Dad files for CS and Mom immediately tries to take the child back, it sure looks like retaliation. I'd say that Dad would have a very good chance under the above scenario.

 

[ecmst12]

That's what I have read here, but I will of course defer to your greater knowledge. I would hate to see dad go to court and have the child returned to mom because he filed too soon...but there are other circumstances like his grades that might come into play.

 

[Ohiogal]

That's what I have read here, but I will of course defer to your greater knowledge. I would hate to see dad go to court and have the child returned to mom because he filed too soon...but there are other circumstances like his grades that might come into play.

This is to everyone and not just you because I have seen MANY POST THIS:
I don't know where the magical 6 month mark ever began. Unless someone posted the child had been with them for six months and someone responded, "GREAT YOU HAVE STATUS QUO AND should get custody." I just don't know. There is no line in the sand for status quo.

YOu have the child for your weekend visitation that is not enough to change status quo. If you have the child for a month straight though AND that is out of the ordinary and the child has changed schools and is attending from your home, that may be enough status quo to show a substantial change of circumstance in the life of the child. It depends on much more than just having a child for x length of time. Status quo can help but that is not established at a six month mark, a three month mark or in some cases a month or 6 weeks.

Also in this case you have what Misto mentioned -- the other changes.

 

[CJane]

OP posted that mom and dad are $30,000 APART on the arrears estimate.

I'd like to know what the three estimates are, and why -anyone- thinks Mom will ever be obligated to pay Dad support.

 

[mistoffolees]

OP posted that mom and dad are $30,000 APART on the arrears estimate.

I'd like to know what the three estimates are,

I don't really care what the estimates are. Calculating them isn't hard - based on what has already been explained. The estimates are different because the two people are using different out of court agreements. CSE is presumably using the court order. The court order rules, not all the crazy schemes they worked up between them.

and why -anyone- thinks Mom will ever be obligated to pay Dad support.

I fully expect that Mom would probably be ordered to pay support in this case. Of course (as you're probably suggesting), she can ask for the arrears to be used to offset her future payments, but if Dad ever gets caught up on arrears, Mom's obligation would kick in and she'd have to start paying.

 

[CJane]

I don't really care what the estimates are. Calculating them isn't hard - based on what has already been explained. The estimates are different because the two people are using different out of court agreements. CSE is presumably using the court order. The court order rules, not all the crazy schemes they worked up between them.

I care what the estimates are because I'm curious what is 'estimated' to be ACTUAL child support arrears (which is what CSE is probably using), and what is considered by both Mom AND Dad to be 'arrears' due to the agreement re: tuition payments.

I'm willing to bet that tuition is addressed outside actual child support.

Which is why the wording of the order matters, and why 3rd party questions about very specific details are a PITA.

I fully expect that Mom would probably be ordered to pay support in this case. Of course (as you're probably suggesting), she can ask for the arrears to be used to offset her future payments, but if Dad ever gets caught up on arrears, Mom's obligation would kick in and she'd have to start paying.

I think it depends on the judge. Around here, the CS would be set at $0 until Dad was considered current, at which time he could request a mod.

But, if he's as far in arrears as it sounds like he is, he'd have a very very hard time even getting a judge to hear a custody modification here.

Very hard. Nearly impossible. Which is why I think Dad should let the custody dog lie undisturbed while they iron out the CS issue.

 

[Ohiogal]

I care what the estimates are because I'm curious what is 'estimated' to be ACTUAL child support arrears (which is what CSE is probably using), and what is considered by both Mom AND Dad to be 'arrears' due to the agreement re: tuition payments.

I'm willing to bet that tuition is addressed outside actual child support.

Which is why the wording of the order matters, and why 3rd party questions about very specific details are a PITA.



I think it depends on the judge. Around here, the CS would be set at $0 until Dad was considered current, at which time he could request a mod.

But, if he's as far in arrears as it sounds like he is, he'd have a very very hard time even getting a judge to hear a custody modification here.

Very hard. Nearly impossible. Which is why I think Dad should let the custody dog lie undisturbed while they iron out the CS issue.

True to the fact that it matters how CSEA deals with the private school. That may NOT be a child support issue but rather a motion to show cause on a separate matter.

 

[mistoffolees]

True to the fact that it matters how CSEA deals with the private school. That may NOT be a child support issue but rather a motion to show cause on a separate matter.

Except that OP said "He and his ex wife made a private agreement that she would pay half of the school cost."

It doesn't appear to have been addressed at all by the court and is probably not enforceable, nor will it be included in CSEA calculations.

 

[Nevergrowup]

This is to everyone and not just you because I have seen MANY POST THIS:
I don't know where the magical 6 month mark ever began. Unless someone posted the child had been with them for six months and someone responded, "GREAT YOU HAVE STATUS QUO AND should get custody." I just don't know. There is no line in the sand for status quo.

YOu have the child for your weekend visitation that is not enough to change status quo. If you have the child for a month straight though AND that is out of the ordinary and the child has changed schools and is attending from your home, that may be enough status quo to show a substantial change of circumstance in the life of the child. It depends on much more than just having a child for x length of time. Status quo can help but that is not established at a six month mark, a three month mark or in some cases a month or 6 weeks.

Also in this case you have what Misto mentioned -- the other changes.

I'm guessing that it has something to do with residency requirements...most states it is 6 months. Many people think 6 months is a magic number. My daughter's stepmom thought so...years ago, she tried to convince me to let daughter live with them "till April" which was coincidentally 6 months, to get her "caught up" in school (stepmom was convinced daughter had a learning problem, she does NOT). Not that I would agree to her living with stepmom anyway (dad traveled a LOT) but I knew why she picked that month, it was month #6.

 

[CJane]

According to their divorce decree the father was responsible for private school fees.

THIS is what is probably addressed separately from ACTUAL child support.

He and his ex wife made a private agreement that she would pay half of the school cost.

THIS is where the verbal agreement happened. And was apparently in place for 3+ years, as stated below.

After about 3 years she ran into economical trouble and took the father to court demanding the money back. During this court case she claimed she had been paying half for 4 years and not for 3. My husband was able to prove that the children had been attending a puplic school for the fourth year.

Again, this is most likely NOT child support, but rather tuition payments that were ordered apart from CS.

I'm wondering if, during this 4 year span, Dad ALSO paid less than the ordered child support.

OR if the "child support" is really the same amount of $$ as the tuition payments WOULD HAVE been, and the verbal agreement wasn't for Dad to pay 1/2 the tuition and Mom to pay 1/2, but actually for Dad to pay 1/2 his ordered CS.

So there are two possibilities, both of which make sense in this scenario.

1. Dad is ordered to pay TUITION AND CHILD SUPPORT, and fell behind in BOTH due in part to the verbal agreement.

2. Dad is ordered to pay CHILD SUPPORT ONLY, and that is what they agreed to cut in 1/2 and he's now in arrears by 1/2 the amount ordered x 36 or 48 months + interest.

The only way I understand Dad's estimate AND Mom's estimate being significantly higher than CSE's is if the parents are calling the tuition CS when it's NOT. That would also explain Mom and Dad being $30K apart on their estimates - one year of private school (Dad says 3, Mom says 4) x 2 kids pretty easily = $30K.

StepMom/OP says Dad pays $1350/month in CS, and that's what's ordered. I'm curious how much/month Dad was paying during the 3-4 years of this verbal agreement.

Again, actual wording of the order is really important in this situation.

And again, I wouldn't TOUCH the custody issue until I straightened out the CS issue.

 

[C.Z]

Hi.
Thank you all for your input.
Some more information:
The child has made it very clear to everyone involved that he Will not go back to his mothers. About a year ago the child was in the same situation but staying with his grandparents and refused to get in the car with mum. The situation ended with the Sheriff being called and the child was physically forced into the car with the mother. We do NOT ever want to end up in that situation again.
Arrears as claimed by mother: 55000' by father 25 000 and CSE 22000.
It is half childsupport and half school fees due to the verbal agreement. And trust me, My Husband has learnt his lesson and will never make that misstake again.
When my Husband worked in Boston he was paying 5000 à month in CS. Working in Georgia he now pays 1250 and 100 towards the arrears.

The father can not sit back and not file for custody since that would only mean he pays the mother 1350 à month but only 100 goes towards the arrears. How would he ever be able to pay back the outstanding amount?

 

[Just Blue]

Is there a REALLY good reason that hubbycan't deal with his own child issue??

 

[mistoffolees]

Hi.
Thank you all for your input.
Some more information:
The child has made it very clear to everyone involved that he Will not go back to his mothers.

Then be prepared for hubby to spend some time in jail if Mom decides to ask for the child to be returned and Dad refuses.