Divorce and the marital dwelling???

[Happyness]

But why should she be paying at all? You have the home.

If you let the judge decide, s/he will probably say that you have to pay all of it because you are keeping the home. Almost certainly you're going to be responsible for all of it after the divorce is final. So why in the world do you think it's fair to expect your ex to pay half of the mortgage?

And half of the utilities is absurd. If you weren't there, she could turn the utilities off -or at least down to bare minimum (no lights, just enough heat to keep it at 45 degrees). CLEARLY, you should be paying all of the utilities. I can't believe you're even expecting her to do that.

At what point in this thread have I said anything about utilities?? Please read before you begin speaking on something that only you're talking about. Why should she pay you ask, well, because it's her home too. Just because she moves out should not leave me to deal with all the agony of the property. I would sell the place, but I can't!! The terrible economy took a toll on the value.
If I just say hell with it and walk away, I still have a responsibility to satisfy the note. She needs to contribute until the house is either sold or I find someone to pay her 50%.

 

[Happyness]

If the bolded is the truth and the bankruptcy court did not order her to pay 900, expect that you will be ordered 1650 and she will be ordered to pay 150 for 15 months in divorce court. Why? Because you have the home and benefit thereof (1500) so that should be yours. You would then split the $300 month that is marital debt.

The court can order that if the bankruptcy court doesn't care and didn't order that $900 come from her pays and $900 from yours.

Yes, the bankruptcy court did order the 900 from her check as well as mine. They sent papers to each payroll dept and we were notified that we were being "garnished" by the bankruptcy court. When I said they don't care how they get it, I mean from the two of us percentage wise, so she can say she doesn't want 50% coming out of her check anymore, but the difference has to come from mine.
I do see your point that she be responsible for 150 of the 300 and leaving me with 1650. Makes sense.

 

[LdiJ]

Yes, the bankruptcy court did order the 900 from her check as well as mine. They sent papers to each payroll dept and we were notified that we were being "garnished" by the bankruptcy court. When I said they don't care how they get it, I mean from the two of us percentage wise, so she can say she doesn't want 50% coming out of her check anymore, but the difference has to come from mine.
I do see your point that she be responsible for 150 of the 300 and leaving me with 1650. Makes sense.

While that is the way that the bankruptcy court has it set up right now, that is not necessarily a permanent order. The bankruptcy court doesn't actually care where it comes from, only that they get the payment.

Here is how I think that you need to be thinking about this. Unless you have some crazy idea that you and she can share the home, even after the divorce, you have two basic choices...

1) If you want to keep the house, you have to figure out a way to pay the mortgage all by yourself and be able to refi the loan to remove her within a reasonable amount of time, OR

2) The house has to go. Either by short sale, foreclosure, or a conversion of your bankruptcy to chapter 7 letting the house go in the Chapter 7.

You simply cannot expect her to subsidize your living arrangements until the end of your mortgage...or even until the chapter 13 is finished.

If you could get her to agree to remain on the mortgage, and you get enough roommates so that you can actually make the payments without her, that is another option, but you will still eventually have to refinance it into your own home, and that will have to happen within a reasonable amount of time.

 

[mistoffolees]

At what point in this thread have I said anything about utilities?? Please read before you begin speaking on something that only you're talking about. Why should she pay you ask, well, because it's her home too. Just because she moves out should not leave me to deal with all the agony of the property. I would sell the place, but I can't!! The terrible economy took a toll on the value.

You said "$1500 for the mortgage and $300 for the bills" so I assumed that you were talking about the utilities. If that's not the case, I apologize, but it really doesn't change any of your legal realities.

I'm not wasting any more time on you. You apparently don't understand the concept that since you are getting the benefit of the use of the home while she isn't that a divorce court is likely to expect you to pay - even though you've been told several times by several different people.

If I just say hell with it and walk away, I still have a responsibility to satisfy the note. She needs to contribute until the house is either sold or I find someone to pay her 50%.

She needs to do what the court orders her to do. If the divorce court orders you to pay the mortgage until the home is sold (which is very likely), that's the way it's going to work. Your incessant whining won't change it.

 

[Happyness]

You said "$1500 for the mortgage and $300 for the bills" so I assumed that you were talking about the utilities. If that's not the case, I apologize, but it really doesn't change any of your legal realities.

I'm not wasting any more time on you. You apparently don't understand the concept that since you are getting the benefit of the use of the home while she isn't that a divorce court is likely to expect you to pay - even though you've been told several times by several different people.



She needs to do what the court orders her to do. If the divorce court orders you to pay the mortgage until the home is sold (which is very likely), that's the way it's going to work. Your incessant whining won't change it.

Thank you for your time! I am pleased that you are moving on. You've proven you make assumptions before you read, which is fundamental none the less, so your input to me quite frankly does not matter. We all know what we can compare assumptions to. I hear and understand what has been stated in this thread. I also very much appreciate it. Best of luck to you.

 

[stealth2]

Even if the divorce court orders her to pay the 50%, it can also divide the other assets or order spousal support to reimburse her a portion of it. I would seriously discuss this with a local attorney, to see what options you have available. Being stubborn may well not be in your best interests.

 

[nextwife]

Even if NEITHER lived there, they'd both be responsible for the payment, right? Choosing to leave a financed property in NO WAY relieves the payment responsibility of the borrowers(s), and this being a LEGAL site, we need to stop implying that if you just bail first you shouldn't expext to have to be responsible for the house on which you co-borrowed.

However, if one is having trouble covering their payment, they should seek a roommate or two. Been there, done that, in a home I owned. That move helped me cover my mortgage during an unemployment period. People need to themselves be more proactive when their own situation changes, and stop expecting their creditors to make all the adjustments, and take all the hits so they can more easily walk away from each other.

Only the trustee of the BK can authorize any modification to the assets of the Estate of the Debtor, including income assignment. While under a CH 13, the Debtors do not control, their own assets, the BK court does. And the debtors cannot assign themselves any of their own assets, in any percentages, without the BK court agreeing. Their assets are fully under the control of the Federal BK court.

 

[mistoffolees]

Even if NEITHER lived there, they'd both be responsible for the payment, right? Choosing to leave a financed property in NO WAY relieves the payment responsibility of the borrowers(s), and this being a LEGAL site, neede to stop implying that if you just bail first you shouldn't expext to have to be responsible for the house on which you co-borrowed.

That's not what I'm trying to say and if I gave that impression, I apologize.

My point is that the DIVORCE court will typically make the person who keeps the home responsible for its costs. Now, that doesn't relieve the other person of their legal obligations from signing the loan documents, nor does it relieve them of their obligations from bankruptcy court. The bank and/or bankruptcy court can come after both parties for their money.

HOWEVER, the divorce court could order that the person who keeps the home must indemnify the other party for those expenses since that person is getting the benefit of the home while the other does not. It hasn't happened yet, but it's a likely outcome if it goes to court and OP needs to be aware of that as a likely outcome.

However, if one is having trouble covering their payment, they should seek a roommate or two. Been there, done that, in a home I owned. That move helped me cover my mortgage during an unemployment period. People need to themselves be more proactive when their own situation changes, and stop expecting their creditors to make all the adjustments, and take all the hits so they can more easily walk away from each other.

I agree. OP should definitely be looking for a roommate or two. I can't imagine why he's waiting for his ex to agree that she will 'allow' it.

Only the trustee of the BK can authorize any modification to the assets of the Estate of the Debtor, including income assignment. While under a CH 13, the Debtors do not control, their own assets, the BK court does. And the debtors cannot assign themselves any of their own assets, in any percentages, without the BK court agreeing. Their assets are fully under the control of the Federal BK court.

Absolutely true, but (as indicated above), the divorce court can order the person keeping the home to indemnify the other person.

 

[LdiJ]

That's not what I'm trying to say and if I gave that impression, I apologize.

My point is that the DIVORCE court will typically make the person who keeps the home responsible for its costs. Now, that doesn't relieve the other person of their legal obligations from signing the loan documents, nor does it relieve them of their obligations from bankruptcy court. The bank and/or bankruptcy court can come after both parties for their money.

HOWEVER, the divorce court could order that the person who keeps the home must indemnify the other party for those expenses since that person is getting the benefit of the home while the other does not. It hasn't happened yet, but it's a likely outcome if it goes to court and OP needs to be aware of that as a likely outcome.



I agree. OP should definitely be looking for a roommate or two. I can't imagine why he's waiting for his ex to agree that she will 'allow' it.



Absolutely true, but (as indicated above), the divorce court can order the person keeping the home to indemnify the other person.

Which is why its important to understand that there are two forces at work here, and that real estate law and family law are not necessarily going to coincide.

She may be responsible for the mortgage under real estate law and under bankruptcy law, but if the family law judge orders OP to indemnify her, and he does not, then he has a really huge problem.

Its similar with taxes and dependency exemptions for children. The federal tax code may say one thing, but if a family court judge orders you to sign form 8332, and you don't, you will end up in a world of hurt.