Confused on wording of the visitation agreement

[iluvtugtom]

New York

I was divorced in December 2008 and had a modification to my visitation agreement in June 2010. I planned to relocate 160 miles away, but still in the State of New York. I spoke to my ex about this and we mututally agreed to a new visitation schedule that included half the summer, school breaks and meeting halfway for pick up and drop off. He filed for a modification in court back in August of 2011, I was served and I came to court. I told the referee I agreed to the changes he was asking for and the referee told both my ex and I we were free to parent our children however we see fit but never issued an actual order.

In December 2011,my ex, through his attorney, filed an Order to show cause requesting another modification and enforcement of the modification sought in August 2011 stating I was denying him visitation and that I was not meeting him half way. The referee refused to look at the proof I had that I was indeed abiding by the terms of the agreement, threw out the schedule we asked for in August stating it was never ordered by the court, and stated we needed to abide by the schedule from June 2010, the last order entered by the courts. That agreement says "father to pick up and drop off curbside at mothers residence". The referee stated I must bring the children to my former residence for him to pick up and drop off the kids. But I feel mothers residence means my residence which is where I currently reside. There is no address stated in the agreement. My current residence was the address his lawyer provided in the Order to Show cause, and I was served there as well.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BL]

New York

I was divorced in December 2008 and had a modification to my visitation agreement in June 2010. I planned to relocate 160 miles away, but still in the State of New York. I spoke to my ex about this and we mututally agreed to a new visitation schedule that included half the summer, school breaks and meeting halfway for pick up and drop off. He filed for a modification in court back in August of 2011, I was served and I came to court. I told the referee I agreed to the changes he was asking for and the referee told both my ex and I we were free to parent our children however we see fit but never issued an actual order.

In December 2011,my ex, through his attorney, filed an Order to show cause requesting another modification and enforcement of the modification sought in August 2011 stating I was denying him visitation and that I was not meeting him half way. The referee refused to look at the proof I had that I was indeed abiding by the terms of the agreement, threw out the schedule we asked for in August stating it was never ordered by the court, and stated we needed to abide by the schedule from June 2010, the last order entered by the courts. That agreement says "father to pick up and drop off curbside at mothers residence". The referee stated I must bring the children to my former residence for him to pick up and drop off the kids. But I feel mothers residence means my residence which is where I currently reside. There is no address stated in the agreement. My current residence was the address his lawyer provided in the Order to Show cause, and I was served there as well.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

What if anything does the active order say about moving?

The agreement you had after the original order was not entered into record as an order .Why I don't know ,maybe neither party requested it and that's why the Ref. said you can parent as you can agree.

I'm wondering why though the NCP would file stating denial of visitations?

There must have been a good reason .

The ref . would not and could not look at your proof you were abiding by the agreement because it was not ordered . Verbal or written agreements outside an accual court order mean nothing ,legally.

Fact is ,it's unfair for the NCP to drive the extra distance you caused by moving from the original order .

 

[iluvtugtom]

It states that I must advise my ex 30 days prior to the move, which I did.

My ex filed, we went to court, we both said we agreed to the modification, but she did not issue an order.

My ex has gotten himself into a situation where he is miserable, and I feel he's taking it out on me. Recently he got caught cheating on the mother of his child, got kicked out of her house, has another child support order to pay and has moved in with the girl he cheated with. She has become very mean to him, she posts nasty things on her facebook about their relationship, and he is miserable. He has gained weight, he's exhausted by all the drama, and he's stuck because he can not afford to move out. I think he blames me, but I don't what the problem is. However, I do have his facebook page which clearly gives dates and times he had the kids and even him posting he is at the meeting spot. Since this was done through his cell phone, it gives his location which is the stated meeting point.

I agree, expecting him to drive all that time is unfair and ridiculous, which is why I agreed to meet him half way, and we have done so for months. There have been alot of times I drove all the way down as well.

 

[LdiJ]

It states that I must advise my ex 30 days prior to the move, which I did.

My ex filed, we went to court, we both said we agreed to the modification, but she did not issue an order.

My ex has gotten himself into a situation where he is miserable, and I feel he's taking it out on me. Recently he got caught cheating on the mother of his child, got kicked out of her house, has another child support order to pay and has moved in with the girl he cheated with. She has become very mean to him, she posts nasty things on her facebook about their relationship, and he is miserable. He has gained weight, he's exhausted by all the drama, and he's stuck because he can not afford to move out. I think he blames me, but I don't what the problem is. However, I do have his facebook page which clearly gives dates and times he had the kids and even him posting he is at the meeting spot. Since this was done through his cell phone, it gives his location which is the stated meeting point.

I agree, expecting him to drive all that time is unfair and ridiculous, which is why I agreed to meet him half way, and we have done so for months. There have been alot of times I drove all the way down as well.

It does seem a bit wierd that he is doing this when the two of you have been following the agreement that you made. Could the second child support order somehow be influencing this? Could dad somehow be hoping to gain primary custody in order to avoid two child support payments? Or, could he be hoping for primary custody because he is lonely?

Have you made any attempt to discuss the situation with your ex?

 

[iluvtugtom]

He very well may be trying to get custody to avoid the substantial child support payments. What I really need to establish, is where pick up and drop off is to take place. The agreement says "mothers residence". I believe that means my current residence, he believes it is my former residence. I don't see how I would have to go to my former residence, where someone else now lives, to give him my children...it's a 3 1/2 hour trip with no traffic, in real time now with no weather problems and no summer shore traffic yet it is really more like 4 hours. He would have the kids for 2 hours, and then my kids have to sit in the car for another 4 hours to go back home, not arriving till 12:30-1am on curvy roads, no street lights, no cell service in the event of an accident...all for 2 hours. It's crazy. But if I am legally obligated to do that, I will and file for a modification.

 

[BL]

He very well may be trying to get custody to avoid the substantial child support payments. What I really need to establish, is where pick up and drop off is to take place. The agreement says "mothers residence". I believe that means my current residence, he believes it is my former residence. I don't see how I would have to go to my former residence, where someone else now lives, to give him my children...it's a 3 1/2 hour trip with no traffic, in real time now with no weather problems and no summer shore traffic yet it is really more like 4 hours. He would have the kids for 2 hours, and then my kids have to sit in the car for another 4 hours to go back home, not arriving till 12:30-1am on curvy roads, no street lights, no cell service in the event of an accident...all for 2 hours. It's crazy. But if I am legally obligated to do that, I will and file for a modification.

Obviously the Judge has ruled on the valid orders ,not verbal agreements as you were advised. You moved and created the distance .

The time to bring up these issues was when you were last in court.

If something isn't presented to the court ,it can't be ruled on .

When you made an agreement and stated it to the Judge , it shouuld have been presented to the court to make the stipulated agreements into orders . It was not.

With another Modification petition you will need to show a substantial change since the last orders .

 

[iluvtugtom]

It was not a verbal agreement. My ex went to court and filed a petition to modify the visitation agreement. I was served and we both went to court. I agreed to the changes, since we had discussed it previously, and the referee stated we were free to parent our children however we see fit and if we are in agreement with the schedule we were free to follow it. I understand that the order was not officially entered with the court, and we are ordered to follow the previous one. My question is, if the previous order states father to pick up and drop off the children at the mothers residence, does that mean my current residence or my previous residence?

 

[BL]

It was not a verbal agreement. My ex went to court and filed a petition to modify the visitation agreement. I was served and we both went to court. I agreed to the changes, since we had discussed it previously, and the referee stated we were free to parent our children however we see fit and if we are in agreement with the schedule we were free to follow it. I understand that the order was not officially entered with the court, and we are ordered to follow the previous one. My question is, if the previous order states father to pick up and drop off the children at the mothers residence, does that mean my current residence or my previous residence?

Yes ,the residence at the time the orders were made.

 

[LdiJ]

He very well may be trying to get custody to avoid the substantial child support payments. What I really need to establish, is where pick up and drop off is to take place. The agreement says "mothers residence". I believe that means my current residence, he believes it is my former residence. I don't see how I would have to go to my former residence, where someone else now lives, to give him my children...it's a 3 1/2 hour trip with no traffic, in real time now with no weather problems and no summer shore traffic yet it is really more like 4 hours. He would have the kids for 2 hours, and then my kids have to sit in the car for another 4 hours to go back home, not arriving till 12:30-1am on curvy roads, no street lights, no cell service in the event of an accident...all for 2 hours. It's crazy. But if I am legally obligated to do that, I will and file for a modification.

You didn't file for a modification of visitation this last time because you didn't realize that you needed to do so. Therefore the ref couldn't rule any differently than the referee did. You now need to file for a modification based on the fact that you are now long distance. Make sure that the judge signs off on it this time. You probably need an attorney to make sure it doesn't get bungled again.

 

[iluvtugtom]

Thank you all for your advice

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

I'm still confused. If the court order does NOT stipulate an actual address that is mom's address, then it would make sense that dad would have to come to her CURRENT address for pickup/drop off. The old place is NOT her address.

 

[iluvtugtom]

That's what I thought Tinkerbell. In the Order to show cause, his attorney states I reside at my current address, and I was served there. Since the modification never went through, there was no offical contest to the move. Of course, there was no agreement to me moving either. I've lived here for more than 6 months. I also don't understand...if the Order was never official, then shouldn't his petition be dismissed? You can't file for a violation of an order if said order was never sanctioned by the courts.

 

[TinkerBelleLuvr]

You have to willfully violate the court order.

You will be best served by changing your court order to reflect your current location.

 

[BL]

You have to willfully violate the court order.

You will be best served by changing your court order to reflect your current location.

True, but in the meantime mom should try to make visitation arrangement such as what the non court order agreement was and has been .

In order for there to be a finding of contempt the order must be explicit and understandable and the violation must be willful.

 

[iluvtugtom]

Update and new issue

Hi everyone. Since I last posted, I hired an attorney and we went back to court. There is a court order that states we meet half way for visitation, he has every other weekend Fri-Sun, alternating holidays, school breaks and weeks in the summer.

That was Monday...on Saturday he moved out of his girlfriends house and back into his parents house. His brother lives there as well. His brother is abuses alcohol and drugs. His brother is violent and has had altercations with my ex, their own father as well as my current husband. Police reports have been filed by both my ex and my current hudband against my ex's brother. My divorce agreement specifically states that my children can not be left with his brother.

My ex works on Saturdays and has informed me he has no intention of taking any more than 1 of his 5 weeks paid vacation during any of the weeks he's scheduled to have the children in the summer. The children would be left with someone else overnight, until 3pm the next day when he gets home from work. He can't leave the kids at his house, since the divorce agreement states he can not leave them with his brother.

My questions are: 1) Should I inform my attorney this is going on? 2) Is there anything I can do to help keep my kids safe from his brother? I don't feel comfortable at all having my kids there with him. I know my ex will protect them, but the kids seeing their father in a physical fight with his brother is something I'd rather avoid. I feel it's an unsafe enviornment for the kids to be around...but what I feel as an emotional Mother and what is legal are two different things.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.