Won't return Family hairloom rings

[Teddyear]

What is the name of your state (Texas U.S. law)?
Soon to be divorced from our common law marriage, she has a 2.5 Ct diamond engagement ring plus wedding band that is a family heirloom passed down to 4 grand children from my grandmother. (Purchased 60 years ago) Sonya knows these rings were a loan from the family and that we still owe 3 of my siblings money for the rings. My sisters want them now. Our adult child told our niece/cousins they would own 25% of these rings when their parents die. It is common knowledge in the family she did not own them. The two of us had conversations about paying off the siblings, so she could fully own the rings out right. I'm willing to give her my share in money (25%) for the ring’s return. Now divorcing, she refuses to be responsible for the debt or return them. She says they are a gift. Should she return them? How to proceed. My sisters could enter the divorce lawsuit?

 

[tranquility]

I find it unlikely you will win this one.

The facts will be hard to prove and, depending on the specific theory, might need to be in writing. I'll let those with more experience in divorce give more, but it seems a heavy lift.

 

[mistoffolees]

What is the name of your state (Texas U.S. law)?
Soon to be divorced from our common law marriage, she has a 2.5 Ct diamond engagement ring plus wedding band that is a family heirloom passed down to 4 grand children from my grandmother. (Purchased 60 years ago) Sonya knows these rings were a loan from the family and that we still owe 3 of my siblings money for the rings. My sisters want them now. Our adult child told our niece/cousins they would own 25% of these rings when their parents die. It is common knowledge in the family she did not own them. The two of us had conversations about paying off the siblings, so she could fully own the rings out right. I'm willing to give her my share in money (25%) for the ring’s return. Now divorcing, she refuses to be responsible for the debt or return them. She says they are a gift. Should she return them? How to proceed. My sisters could enter the divorce lawsuit?

In Texas, engagement rings are conditional gifts. That is, they are gifts in expectation of marriage. If there was no marriage, the gift is returnable. If the couple marries, the bride gets to keep the ring.

Since you were married (albeit common law), you are going to have an uphill battle to try to claim them. Unless you have a written document or witnesses that stbx agreed to the rings being a loan rather than a gift, you're probably out of luck.

So, instead of 'common knowledge within the family', do you have any real evidence or witnesses that stbx knew they were a loan? If not, you're probably sunk.

 

[justalayman]

who would give a loaned ring as an engagement or wedding ring?


Your best argument is to seek the recovery of them in the divorce...


and yes, you will have to get divorced for your common law marriage to end. Easy in, pain in the rump getting out.

a huge problem in your story is this:

Sonya knows these rings were a loan from the family and that we still owe 3 of my siblings money for the rings.

If they were loaned to you, why would you owe anybody any money for them? You don't pay for somebody loaning you something.

It sounds like you agreed to purchase the other's shares so you could gift the rings to your wife as engagement and wedding rings. That makes you reclaiming them darn near impossible.

 

[mistoffolees]

who would give a loaned ring as an engagement or wedding ring?


Your best argument is to seek the recovery of them in the divorce...


and yes, you will have to get divorced for your common law marriage to end. Easy in, pain in the rump getting out.

a huge problem in your story is this:



If they were loaned to you, why would you owe anybody any money for them? You don't pay for somebody loaning you something.

It sounds like you agreed to purchase the other's shares so you could gift the rings to your wife as engagement and wedding rings. That makes you reclaiming them darn near impossible.

Agreed except for the bolded part. They were a gift (conditional, but a gift nonetheless), so stbx doesn't have to account for them in the divorce. (That's one of the reasons I always hated the "two or three months salary for an engagement ring" nonsense that the diamond cartel tried to foist on people).

Now, if the debt to family members for the rings was a formal loan document and in writing, then ex might be responsible for half of the debt, however. That would be a stretch unless the debt was incurred after they became married (which would not be how engagement rings are normally purchased).

 

[justalayman]

Agreed except for the bolded part. They were a gift (conditional, but a gift nonetheless), so stbx doesn't have to account for them in the divorce. (That's one of the reasons I always hated the "two or three months salary for an engagement ring" nonsense that the diamond cartel tried to foist on people).

Now, if the debt to family members for the rings was a formal loan document and in writing, then ex might be responsible for half of the debt, however. That would be a stretch unless the debt was incurred after they became married (which would not be how engagement rings are normally purchased).

he has no chance of getting them outside the divorce. I didn't mean to suggest he has a claim to them he might exercise through the divorce but he might be able to negotiate the return of them within the divorce.

 

[LdiJ]

he has no chance of getting them outside the divorce. I didn't mean to suggest he has a claim to them he might exercise through the divorce but he might be able to negotiate the return of them within the divorce.

I agree. The possibility does exist that he can negotiate the return of the rings via the divorce.