Possible Lawsuit?

[KJSnyder]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? Missouri

Hello,

We have an issue and I am wondering if you guys think that we have the grounds to sue.

We purchased in November 2011.

What is happening is massive basement seepage in our finished basement. Water seems to be coming in from three different locations. We measured about 2.5 inches of water in some spots. We have experienced heavy rains the past few days.

This is from the disclosure:

Basement and Crawl Space
(a) Are you aware of any dampness, water leakage or accumulation, in the basement or crawl space? "Yes."
(b) Are you aware of any repairs or other attempts to control any water or dampness problems? "No."

Please explain and "Yes" answer you gave in this section, including repair history (attach additional pages if needed) : "Some dampness - only after extended days of heavy rain - feel this is normal in a basement."

This is from the inspection:

Signs of past water entry into the basement with some mold on lower walls and trim.

E-mails to and from our Realtor:

From myself:

We had a few questions about what was found on the inspection. The things that concern us the most are the leaking and the mold in the basement, the sliding glass door in the back being broken and the copper tube being used on the water heater.

Are these things supposed to have been mentioned in the disclosure? The copper pipe might not have been obvious, but the door and the leak seem like to owner should have known about them. I'm not sure if the owner is required to act in good faith, but it does seem a bit shady that he had no idea that the house had these problems.

Can we ask him to fix these things since they were not mentioned? Or are we too far past that point?

From the Realtor:

The door and mold were there when you looked at the house. I mentioned the broken glass. Didn't know it didn't open though. But you can certainly ask for these to be fixed.

The copper pipe was commonly used and until just recently they started not using it.

There will also be an inspector for RD and he probably will point these things out also. So lets ask for all to be fixed and see what the seller says.

I'll write up the inspection notice.

So, from my perspective, the owner didn't disclose the leaking issue, and when there was found to be one, I am not sure if it was repaired at all.

I have spoken with our Realtor and she says that because the issue wasn't listed in the disclosure, that this must be a new issue.


This is our first house and I'm a broke college student, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much,
KJSnyder

 

[ecmst12]

Broke college students should not own houses. Owning and maintaining a house is expensive.

You were given huge warnings in the inspection and should have walked away or required that repairs be done and proven. You did not and chose to buy the house anyway. You can't claim you did not know about the water issue, it's in your inspection.

 

[KJSnyder]

Hmm, that's interesting. I was thinking it could possibly be negligent or fraudulent misrepresentation. I believe that because we used the information in the disclosure (that there was "some normal dampness during heavy rains") as a decision to purchase. I'm a finance major, not a contractor, how am I to know that "signs of past water entry" means "there's a huge seepage issue?" I believe that I would have to use the disclosure as a basis for my decision; if information in the disclosure is false information, is that not fraud? I believe that the homeowner would have better knowledge of major issues, such as this, than an inspector would. After all, it might not have been raining heavily on the day of the inspection. Could the previous owner not have attempted to hide the issue from the inspector? It would appear that he at least attempted to hide the issue from me in the disclosure.

If what you're positing is true, what's to stop me from not disclosing the major issue when I sell the home in the future? I can just say that there is "some dampness" and be protected?

 

[ecmst12]

Why did you not question the inspector at length about what those signs meant?

Why did you not refuse to complete the purchase without repair?

Can you PROVE that the previous homeowner knew about the flooding? Can you even prove that the problem was as bad as it is now, at any time in the past?

Did you do any research about buying a house and what the signs are to run like hell away from a property?

 

[KJSnyder]

Actually, do you know what's interesting? Our Realtor told us that we couldn't be there during the inspection, but the homeowner was allowed to be present. Also, upon reading through the inspection request sent from our Realtor to the seller, the request to repair the leak was not listed, even though I explicitly asked for it to be included; of that I have proof.

As far as can we prove that the previous owner knew about the issue, yes, I would assume we could have a contractor check for past water damage now that we can remove the floor trim.

What kind of protections does a seller have in this situation? "You should have known better!" doesn't seem like a good defense.

 

[ecmst12]

Proving that water damage was there does not prove that the previous owners knew about it.

You should have been present during the inspection - you paid for the inspection, correct? If you did not, then you should have paid for your own inspection - the one that was done was not for your benefit if you didn't pay for it. And you should have been more on top of your realtor and make sure he requested all the repairs that you wanted done. You SHOULD NOT have signed the deal if you were not satisfied with the condition of the house and all the repairs requested were not agreed on or not done. You made several very expensive errors. Seeing NOW that your realtor did not even ask them to fix this doesn't help you - you should have seen it THEN and fixed it. You can certainly call him and complain, but your case is closed, the house is yours, he got his commission and the deal is done. All the signs point to you being well aware of this issue prior to purchase yet you bought the house anyway.

 

[tranquility]

Our Realtor told us that we couldn't be there during the inspection, but the homeowner was allowed to be present.

Real estate agents want to sell houses. That's how they get paid. THEY don't want all the parties there at inspection because it makes more of a hassle in closing the deal.

 

[KJSnyder]

ecmst12 - I get it. In your opinion I shouldn't have signed the deal and college students shouldn't buy houses. Thank you for your help.


tranquility - Is it typical for Realtors to tell their clients that they cannot attend the inspection?

 

[tranquility]

Since we specialize in the taxation of income and real property, we have many real estate agents as clients. They discourage having the parties ever meet and certainly don't want them to both be at the inspection. I suggest, however, they may have implied you cannot be there rather than tell you you can't be there. (Not that it would be a practical legal difference between the two.)

 

[ecmst12]

I don't see any reason why the homeowner would be present for the inspection, and it's very important for the buyer to be there.

I didn't say college students shouldn't buy houses. I said BROKE people shouldn't buy houses. When you rent, if something breaks, the landlord pays to fix it. If it's your house, it's on you, so if you don't have money to budget for unexpected repairs, then owning a house is very, very risky.

 

[FarmerJ]

You posted >(a) Are you aware of any dampness, water leakage or accumulation, in the basement or crawl space? "Yes."
The yes was enough of a flag that you should have insisted on learning more before making a offer , You chose not to push to learn more about possible causes.(which could have included looking at roof drainage issues or grading) If you really think you have a claim your free to use the services of a atty, consider using the links above, Personally I think your efforts would be better spent on extending gutter downleads to carry roof water farther away from the house , you may have to look into changing the grade of the soils near the house to encourage run off ( if house doesnt have gutters to add them) you may want to consider installing a sump pump. hot water heater , yes copper tubing for water lines is common , soft copper line for gas line connections is allowed in many places and last copper , plastic or even galv pipe may be used for over flow valve.

 

[LdiJ]

Hmm, that's interesting. I was thinking it could possibly be negligent or fraudulent misrepresentation. I believe that because we used the information in the disclosure (that there was "some normal dampness during heavy rains") as a decision to purchase. I'm a finance major, not a contractor, how am I to know that "signs of past water entry" means "there's a huge seepage issue?" I believe that I would have to use the disclosure as a basis for my decision; if information in the disclosure is false information, is that not fraud? I believe that the homeowner would have better knowledge of major issues, such as this, than an inspector would. After all, it might not have been raining heavily on the day of the inspection. Could the previous owner not have attempted to hide the issue from the inspector? It would appear that he at least attempted to hide the issue from me in the disclosure.

If what you're positing is true, what's to stop me from not disclosing the major issue when I sell the home in the future? I can just say that there is "some dampness" and be protected?

I have a suggestion. See if the water entry points are anywhere near the downspouts for your gutters. If so, try extending the gutter downspouts out further into your yard. I have seen that trick resolve many a problem with basement flooding during heavy rains.

 

[CLJM]

KJSynder,

You stated : Our Realtor told us that we couldn't be there during the inspection, but the homeowner was allowed to be present.

Research and due diligence...very important, whether a buyer or a seller. You are the purchaser---You are the responsible party for your purchase. Only the buyer and seller are parties to the contract. The Realtors are merely facilitators to bring the two parties together.

You asked : Is it typical for Realtors to tell their clients that they cannot attend the inspection?

What a "typical" Realtor might do is anyone's guess---that is why it is imperative to research and choose your Realtor well, whether it be for buying or selling a home.


When my buyers go under contract to purchase a house, it is they who hire the inspector and it is imperative that they attend the inspection. I also attend the inspection. The inspector works for the buyer and is paid by the buyer. It is an excellent oppotunity for the buyer to get to know the house and to ask questions of the inspector. The inspection report is then discussed and decided which items will be requested to be replaced, repaired, etc. I then provide the seller's Realtor the findings of the inspection along with a written request for action. Negotiations can go back and forth until an agreement is signed. I also include written notation that upon remedy of the items, the property will be reinspected, and completion will be accepted.

When my seller's go under contract with a buyer to purchase their house, my duty is to inform the seller when the inspection will take place and what firm will be conducting the inspection. I request that my sellers not be in attendance, as to afford the buyer's and their inspector ease of speaking freely and openly with any concerns. I do attend the inspection, though I stay in the background unless there is an issue I need to be aware of or consulted on. I then follow through with what the buyer's Realtor submit to me and requests of my sellers.

My best to you